Favorite Early Alpert 45s

[Captain Bacardi]

I think it's been a while since we last discussed the early singles that Herb Alpert did prior to the TJB and A&M era. Those singles were:

Herbie Alpert and His Quartet - Sweet Georgia Brown/Viper's Blues (Carol Records 45-700)

Herb B. Lou and the Legal Eagles - The Trial/Kiss Me (Arch Records, Inc. 1607)

Herbie Alpert and His Sextet - Summer School/The Hully Gully (Andex 1-4036)

Dore Alpert - Gonna Get A Girl/Dreamland (RCA Victor 47-7918)

Dore Alpert - Little Lost Lover/Won't You Be My Valentine (RCA Victor 47-7988)

Dore Alpert - Tell It To The Birds/Fallout Shelter (Carnival Records 701; later distributed on Dot 45-16396)

Dore Alpert - Dina/You're Doin' What You Did With Me With Him (A&M 714)

Dore Alpert - I'd Do It All Again/Special Kind Of Love (A&M 729)


So which one is your favorite?



Capt. Bacardi

 

[Captain Bacardi]

I went with "Sweet Georgia Brown/Viper's Blues", mainly because I loved "Viper's Blues" with Herb doing some bluesy jazz. I thought "Kiss Me" would've been perfect for the Dr. Demento show. "Summer School/The Hully Gully" would be my second favorite. Although I've never been a big fan of Herb's singing I really like "Won't You Be My Valentine", but then I'm reminded as to why I don't like Herb's singing when I hear "Dina".



Capt. Bacardi

 

[Harry]

My favorite is "Dreamland". Second favorite is "Won't You Be My Valentine".

I've never found that last one, though I have a copy of (member among the missing) Paula's 45 that I made. As I recall, she'd found a bunch of these 45's in a shop in Pittsburgh.

Harry

 

[abstract_fan]

Given these record numbers, was Herb recording on A&M as Herb and Dore at the same time (i.e., even after Lonely Bull)?


Dore Alpert - Dina/You're Doin' What You Did With Me With Him (A&M 714)

Dore Alpert - I'd Do It All Again/Special Kind Of Love (A&M 729)

 

[Captain Bacardi]

Yes. Keep in mind that Herb was still trying to "find himself" at this point.



Capt. Bacardi

 

[gameenjoyer]

I've never heard any of those songs. Here's a thought for the next volume of the Signature Series if there are no more TJB albums that Herb feels are worth releasing: release a disc entitled Herb Alpert: The Pre-TJB Recordings and include those sixteen tracks on it (I'm assuming Herb owns them or that they were unpopular enough that he could get them rather cheap). Since, technically, the TJB did not exist until 1965, that title would work, and, although it would only sell to diehard fans like us, I think it'd find a decent market among those diehard fans.

 

[Captain Bacardi]

I can tell you that there will be no CD with these tracks on it. I brought this up a few years ago when I met Randy Alpert. First of all, aside from the A&M singles, Herb does not own the rights to the songs. And Randy argued that these songs were not what Herb was about to begin with. I don't necessarily agree with that, as I think it would be good from a historical standpoint. But since Herb doesn't own most of these songs it's highly unlikey these will ever see the light of day on CD.



Capt. Bacardi

 

[Mike Blakesley]

I could see a few of those songs being on a comprehensive Herb box set, the same way some of the pre-Carpenters recordings found their way onto the Carp box sets....but any fan who expects anything remotely TJB-ish would be disappointed.

That said, I think my favorite of these is "Won't You Be My Valentine." A few years ago I made a Valentine's Day CD for my wife with that song as a "hidden track" at the end.

 

[Harry]

...but any fan who expects anything remotely TJB-ish would be disappointed.

I was listening to these this morning, and really, "Hully Gully" could at least represent an early attempt at a TJB-ish sound. It's instrumental with a trumpet lead, nice thirds harmony, etc. It's a little simplistic in a '50s sort of way, but it at least sounds like the roots of a TJB sound.

The other one that almost screams "TJB" is "Little Lost Lover" with it sounding like an early attempt at "Acapulco 1922". More likely, when it came time to do "Acapulco 1922", Herb remembered and liked the groove of his long-forgotten "Little Lost Lover" and appropriated it.

Listening this morning, I also remembered how good, in a goofy sort of way, the song "You're Doing What You Did With Me With Him" is.

I too disliked "Dina" the first time I heard it. Then I found another really clean 45 copy of it, and it sounded much better to me. Hey Captain - at least it's got a little trombone in it!

Harry

 

[Captain Bacardi]

Hey Captain - at least it's got a little trombone in it!

It just ain't enough, man, it just ain't enough.

Randy told me one story about "Tell It To The Birds". They were having some kind of party for Karen Carpenter at A&M, and as she arrived at whatever place in the complex Randy put "Birds" on the turntable and started playing it, as a joke. He said Herb was not amused at all.



Capt. Bacardi

 

[DAN BOLTON]

I think the best-produced Dore Alpert record would have to be YOU'RE DOIN' WHAT YOU DID WITH ME WITH HIM, but my favorite is TELL IT TO THE BIRDS/FALLOUT SHELTER. FS has a kind of WONDERFUL WORLD vibe to the verse, and I always wonder just what a Dore Alpert vocal version of THAT song would have sounded like...a duet with Lani would be an awesome thing,too; IMO.


Dan

 

[Mr Bill]

With the exception of "The Trial" (a Dickie Goodman-esque piece) and it's non-sensical flip side "The Kiss," I like ALL these singles. "You're Doin'..." and "Tell It To The Birds" being my faves. The Hully Gully is very TJB sounding (minus any mariachi influence).

At one time Jim Brent (LPJim) and I decided to pretend A&M continued going "backwards" from SP4101 as they did in Canada (having released a Lucille Starr LP Say You Will, as SP4100)...

We decided 4099 would be the Dore Alpert album and 4098 would likely be Dante and the Evergreens, etc (based on early A&M singles by artists who never released an LP)

Here's my mock cover for Dore's album Dina, A&M SP4099...

--Mr Bill

 

[gameenjoyer]

If I may ask a question that is slightly off-topic, why did Herb release his vocal singles under the name Dore, and where did he come up with that name?

 

[Rudy]

I THINK the name came from the musical phrase "Do Re Mi", as it's pronounced the same way. Could be that Dore sounded more exotic/memorable/marketable than Herb.

BTW, I picked "Little Lost Lover", mainly because of its resemblance to "Acapulco 1922".

 

[DAN BOLTON]

Dore is also the name of Herb's son.



Dan

 

[Captain Bacardi]

I THINK the name came from the musical phrase "Do Re Mi", as it's pronounced the same way.

Correct. In an interview in the mid-60's he said that he just liked that name. It had one of those cool 50's teen-sounding names that just stuck out.

There was also a Dore label in the 50's, but it had nothing to do with Herb.



Capt. Bacardi

 

[AM Matt]

Also the same Dore record label back in 1971 which had the late Victor Bruno "Heavy" album as well as Hudson & Landry "Ajax Liquor Store" & "Ajax Airlines". Matt Clark Sanford, MI

 

[gameenjoyer]

Thank you for answering that question. Whether it'll ever happen or not, I still think it'd be nice if at least some of these songs saw CD release. Maybe if Shout Factory released a "Lost Treasures" album from Herb's solo period or even a second such volume from the TJB period, they could included at least the few of those masters that Herb does own. Something to wish for in the "highly unlikely" category perhaps.

 

[Mike Blakesley]

the name came from the musical phrase "Do Re Mi", as it's pronounced the same way

It's weird - I know how it is supposed to be pronounced, but when I see it, my brain wants it to sound like "Door Alpert."

 

[Harry]

I've always pronounced it as "Door-y".

Am I to understand that it's really "Doe-Ray"?

Is this akin to "Rise" being pronounced "Ree-zay"?

Harry

 

[gameenjoyer]

Mike, when I saw the name Dore, I figured it was pronounced "door" too.

 

[Captain Bacardi]

Am I to understand that it's really "Doe-Ray"?

Yes, that's the correct pronunciation.


Capt. Bacardi

 

[manifan]

I've always pronounced it "Door-Ray."

And Herb saying those songs aren't what he's about is like saying first grade doesn't count because one isn't experienced enough yet. I'm sorry, but those songs ARE a part of him whether he likes it or not.

 

[Captain Bacardi]

Two of these songs - "Hully Gully" and "Summer School" - are on an early 60's LP compilation called Rockin' Slumber Party on the Famous label.

Capt. Bacardi

 

[lgarvin]

There are two other lost 45s that probably belong to this category, as I believe they are also Herb Alpert incognito. One is on the Dore label, Dore 651, The Diddley Oohs, Hooray for the Big Slow Train / Like Terrible. This is a novelty record with Herb as co-author of both songs, and the A-side sounds a lot like the Dore Alpert material. The other 45 is A&M 738, the Melrose Elementary School Band, Little Blue River / The Pupil. Herb authored the B-side and Scott Turner the A-side. The music sounds like the way a young child would try to play the trumpet, but was probably Herb just having fun or making fun of his early days (was Melrose the name of his grade school?). On the B-side, some trumpet lines are done in this "child" mode, but then there are lines that definitely sound like TJB style.

At any rate, I think these two records should be added to the list, unless anyone can claim these are NOT Herb.