about two years ago or so,i was reading a book called the world music guide,and the book was about artists and cds that fit the category of "world music". low and behold there was a section on herb! the article was pretty typical of a critic's view of herb:"he's okay,not that great,but he did contibute mightily to the rise of latin music in the sixties via his own recordings,and work he did with Sergio Mendes,then with Gato Barbieri in the seventies".however,there was one thing the critic said that i somewhat agree with him on:he(critic)said that herb seems more to shine on his productions of other artists,than on his own material.i've heard is productions of artists like sergio,lani,gato,et al,and there is more work,and dedication to these artists'music than his own.sometimes it felt as if herb were holding himself back,probably beause he was afraid that the audience may not like him if he streched himself further.anybody out there agree or disagree?
Herb's productions
- Thread starter jazzdre
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Jay Maynes/Juan Oskar
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DAN BOLTON
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I dunno if I buy that or not...you have to realize that there are several people involved in the creative process whenever an album is produced. Herb had the input of whoever else he was working with, sometimes several people, each highly talented and creative. I mean, if you had Sergio Mendes, Lani Hall AND Herb Alpert together in one studio...well, that's one gigantic brain-trust. Sooooo...whatever they come up with is bound to be pretty good.
Herb holding himself back? You're talking about one of the world's most innovative jazz musicians here...his technique may not be conventional, and he's always been ribbed about his lack of "chops", but he opened up a whole new world for the trumpet...nobody really considered it to be a sensual instrument before he came along. Hernando Cortez called his trumpet "haunting" in the liner notes on the back cover of THE LONELY BULL, and that says volumes about his style. Not every jazz musician can appreciate that.
Everyone is entitled to his opinion...
Dan
Herb holding himself back? You're talking about one of the world's most innovative jazz musicians here...his technique may not be conventional, and he's always been ribbed about his lack of "chops", but he opened up a whole new world for the trumpet...nobody really considered it to be a sensual instrument before he came along. Hernando Cortez called his trumpet "haunting" in the liner notes on the back cover of THE LONELY BULL, and that says volumes about his style. Not every jazz musician can appreciate that.
Everyone is entitled to his opinion...
Dan
Captaindave
Well-Known Member
I don't get it... 
I guess I would need a better understanding of what the author of the comment was talking about. I would need quite a bit of explanation or examples of something in regard to that comment before I could even begin to agree with it.
I don't see any reason to believe that Herb "shines more on the productions of others than his own..." How so?
So, I would disagree with that evaluation of Herb Alpert.
I guess I would need a better understanding of what the author of the comment was talking about. I would need quite a bit of explanation or examples of something in regard to that comment before I could even begin to agree with it.
I don't see any reason to believe that Herb "shines more on the productions of others than his own..." How so?
So, I would disagree with that evaluation of Herb Alpert.
W.B.
Member
Besides the Brasil '66 days, I seem to recall that Messrs. Alpert and Mendes, c. 1983, had produced Ms. Hall's recording of the theme from the Sean Connery / James Bond pic Never Say Never Again, having seen a 45 of same and, thus, that production credit lodged in my brain.DAN BOLTON said:
DAN BOLTON
Well-Known Member
thetijuanataxi
Well-Known Member
Sales have nothing to do with artistry. Britney Spears and her ilk is certainly proof of that.
A lot of trumpet players "dis" Herb's style because it isn't "classical" enough, or "jazz" enough, or "whatever" enough. Same type of criticism that's heaped on pop musicians who sell millions of records but don't "challenge" the listener enough to please the critics.
All of us here feel that Herb is a great artist, but maybe a music professor in a college who has studied the trumpet since grade school might find his style too simplistic or "pop"-ish.
The reason Herb sold 80 million records has nothing to do with artistry as it's defined by music critics. Herb sold the 80 million records because people liked the music.
Back to the productions topic -- I was always impressed that Herb didn't seem to put much of his own "stamp" on his outside productions. He worked with a wide variety of artists, but you would never know just from listening that they were all produced by the same guy. He was good at giving each artist leeway to create their own artistic vision.
A lot of trumpet players "dis" Herb's style because it isn't "classical" enough, or "jazz" enough, or "whatever" enough. Same type of criticism that's heaped on pop musicians who sell millions of records but don't "challenge" the listener enough to please the critics.
All of us here feel that Herb is a great artist, but maybe a music professor in a college who has studied the trumpet since grade school might find his style too simplistic or "pop"-ish.
The reason Herb sold 80 million records has nothing to do with artistry as it's defined by music critics. Herb sold the 80 million records because people liked the music.
Back to the productions topic -- I was always impressed that Herb didn't seem to put much of his own "stamp" on his outside productions. He worked with a wide variety of artists, but you would never know just from listening that they were all produced by the same guy. He was good at giving each artist leeway to create their own artistic vision.
IIRC, he was also a producer (or co-producer) of Gino Vannelli's Powerful People...could be that his role is more like that of a guiding hand than someone who's tailoring someone's performance to a certain production style. I just see that he tends to use outside producers for a lot of his albums, probably for the fresh and different ideas each producer might bring to the sessions.
thetijuanataxi
Well-Known Member
Let's not forget, Herb produced Gato Barbieri. More importantly, he produced Letta Mbulu's (with her husband Caiphus Semenya) two A&M albums and embarking on a two LP (and a rumored third incomplete in the vault) collaboration with Hugh Masekela (and Semenya). This exploration of African music predates Paul Simon's critically acclaimed similar efforts by almost a decade.
So you could say... Herb Alpert=World Music trendsetter.
Ole, Herb!
--Mr Bill
So you could say... Herb Alpert=World Music trendsetter.
Ole, Herb!
--Mr Bill
Mike,
I think the reason that Herb Alpert never put his stamp on any of his production work is that he didn't want to turn into another Phil Spector. I think Spector's attitude about the music he produced didn't make sense, even if he did get the credit for it that he wanted. It isn't the producer that's singing the song or even writing it, or going out on tour and making a public figure out of themselves, it's the artist. You've never heard a radio DJ say, "And that was 'Love Me Do', from George Martin". Yeah, the producer has a part in the creation of the work, but there's a difference between the artist and the producer, unless of course, an artist desires to produce his or her own work. If A&M Records was going to market itself as an artist-friendly label, "pulling a Phil Spector" would have been a bad move.
I think the reason that Herb Alpert never put his stamp on any of his production work is that he didn't want to turn into another Phil Spector. I think Spector's attitude about the music he produced didn't make sense, even if he did get the credit for it that he wanted. It isn't the producer that's singing the song or even writing it, or going out on tour and making a public figure out of themselves, it's the artist. You've never heard a radio DJ say, "And that was 'Love Me Do', from George Martin". Yeah, the producer has a part in the creation of the work, but there's a difference between the artist and the producer, unless of course, an artist desires to produce his or her own work. If A&M Records was going to market itself as an artist-friendly label, "pulling a Phil Spector" would have been a bad move.
Captain Bacardi
Well-Known Member
To me, Herb takes some of these other artists in a bit of a different direction than they've been used to, especially the jazz artists. If you listen to what folks like Gato Barbieri, Hugh Masekela, Stan Getz, Pete Jolly and others were doing prior to hooking up with Herb and then compare their work afterwards you can hear the difference. For most of them it was just a matter of changing the background rather than changing the way they play. Most of the time it worked out well.
Capt. Bacardi
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