Karen's vocals 72-75

[andywithaz]

I've noticed that Karen's vocals are much softer around the years of 1972-1975. Especially around 1972 and 1973. If you listen to the original album mixes they are softer and warmer from this period. Did the mics get more detailed over the years or did her vocals change due to her being thinner

 

[W.B.]

I wouldn't know about "softer" or whether her declining weight had anything to do with the difference in her vocals as vs. pre-'72 . . . but listening to the partly re-recorded "Top Of The World" that was issued as single AM-1468-S in '73, certain parts of her vocals (especially in the second half of the second verse) sounded heavily mannered and, I suppose to some people, bordering on the self-parodic. But that, I admit, is only one example.

 

[newvillefan]

I have to say, I think Karen's vocals were much softer post 75. Compare the tracks post Horizon (Aurora, Solitaire, Caught Between..Boat to Sail) - they're sung so softly, and then listen to the albums Now and Then and Song For You.

I think Karen's earlier vocals are more self assured - they just sound stronger. I'm thinking here of Yesterday Once More, A Song For You. Maybe that's partly to do with the earlier stuff being more majestic, also certain songs from every period call for softer readings, so I suppose the comparisons could go on forever.

Interesting comment about the mics used on Karen's lead vocals though - does anyone know ???

Stephen

 

[PJ]

Would agree that Karen's vocals did become softer -if this is the right term ? after 1975.

Hush is very mild compared to other earlier Albums and also Richard's arrangements are less powerful -Richard has referred to this with sadness as due to declining health and overall tiredness 1976 > 1978 -Albums suffered in his opinon

There are many wonderful performances , vocals and production songs during this period -so Richard is being over-critical of himself -as Carpenters did set the most amazing standards / consistency during 1969 > 1975 A&M period

Really interesting -with our hindsight -is the selections for several Albums compared to many strong songs -released later- as with Ordinary Fool , You're The One, Where Do I Go, Leave Yesterday Behind, Look To Your Dreams etc

Peter

 

[Bruno]

In my opinion, over the years Karen's voice became softer, warmer and more female. And I like that. I don't think, that here is any connection to her illness.

Bruno

 

[engineer]

I'm a little confused here when people say "softer."

Do you mean that her vocals were less supported, in a vocal sense, or that she isn't as loud in the mix as she was on earlier albums?
I don't detect less overall vocal support in the songs from that period, except where the song itself makes that sort of singing appropriate ("I Can Dream Can't I" isn't a tune to be belted out). Listen to the chorus on "Solitaire" -- there's no lack of vocal support there.

If it's the mix, then it had nothing to do with Karen whatsoever. That was simply the engineers and producers deciding how loud each individual track should be in relation to the other tracks (vocal vs guitar vs piano etc. etc.).
I'm guessing what you're detecting as a "softness" is really a change in the material: more quiet, light ballads and fewer "belters" like "Superstar," "Hurting Each Other," "Rainy Days and Mondays," and so on.

Dan

 

[Bruno]

No. In my opinion, Karen's voice got better over the years. If you listen to OFFERING, you hear a young girl singing. She does the best she can, but it's a little rough at times. On the later recordings, you hear a woman sing, and her voice became more perfect.

Bruno

 

[andywithaz]

Yes, I agree that on the very early songs Karen's voice was rough. But compare the original versions of YesterdayOnce More and Goodbye to Love to Those Good Old Dreams and later songs.

 

[Jeff]

I've always been of the opinion that beginning in '74 w/ Santa Claus...thru '75, the HORIZON sessions, that Karen's voice was at its richest, fullest, and silkiest ever. Just take a listen.

Jeff

 

[saj77]

The subject of Karens' voice as it developed through the years is one which I have often pondered over the past 34 years of listening to her perform. Although I really love the youthful energy of the earlier recordings, especially A Song For You, I have to agree with Jeff that her voice did indeed get "richer, fuller, and silkier" during the 1974 - 1975 time frame. I believe that at this time Karens' singing reflected a combination of youth and experience that enabled her to reach what may have been her peak, as her illness set in soon after and undoubtedly affected her on many levels later on. Please don't get me wrong, as much of her later work is incredibly polished and professional and beautiful, and I treasure it, but I especially enjoy her voice during the "Horizon" period.

Come to think of it, I seem to remember either listening to a KC interview or reading a transcript of one from later in her career during which she makes the comment that she thinks she tended to "oversing" on some of her earlier work. "Oversing" was the term she used. I've been trying to remember exactly where I came across this but so far come up blank. Can anyone else remember having seen or heard this ?? - Scott

( old enough to have been enjoying the Carpenters for nearly 35 years and unfortunately my memory sometimes proves it ......... )

 

[Tony]

Yes, Karen did in fact once say that she thought she used to oversing. If I remember correctly, the interview in which this quote appeared was in Billboard and it ran just before Made in America was released. I'm not certain, but that's my recollection.

Funny, but compared to many of today's bombastic, over-the-top singers, Karen never came close to overdoing it.

Tony

 

[saj77]

Tony - THANKS much for your recollection of the comment on Karen saying she thought she used to "oversing" at times. I too remember that it was sometime around Made In America. If you come across more info on the interview in question, please post it. I'm still racking my brain trying to recall where in all of my Carpenters items I came across it. You're right - compared to what you see pop singers doing these days, Karen never overdid anything. She didn't have to, because she had something the singers of today can only dream about having - TALENT !!

Scott

 

[close2u]

Karen made the comment on "Oversinging" in a 1977 BILLBOARD article by Ed Harrison called "Surprise By Carpenters" (about the "Passage" album.) She said:

"I used to over-sing. I was too loud. I'm able to feel a song now."

This article also appears as "Carpenters' Surprise" in the book I compiled called "Yesterday Once More: Memories of the Carpenters and Their Music". I hope this helps!

Randy

 

[Bruno]

That's exactly what I mean. In the beginnings, Karen was often too loud. In the later recordings, you can hear, that she feels the song.

Good example:
SOMEDAY.
Listen to the original on the OFFERING album, and then listen to the version which appears as a part of the MUSIC MUSIC MUSIC MEDLEY on FROM THE TOP or ESSENTIAL COLLECTION.

Bruno
snowfall lin Germany

 

[saj77]

RANDY - That's the quote I was remembering. THANKS MUCH !! Also, THANK YOU for your wonderful book. I've owned a copy since it first came out and it is not only a fantastic reference source, but is enjoyable reading as well. - Scott

 

[Dave]

I'd say it was just "growth". Karen's voice is her Instrument. She had just attuned it to the times. On the early LP's--OFFERING/TICKET TO RIDE, CLOSE TO YOU and A SONG FOR YOU, Karen is a bit "harsh" sounding. Albums like CARPENTERS, NOW AND THEN, A KIND OF HUSH and HORIZON, she has sounded a bit milder.

But it was a matter of being introduced to the music business and turning a mostly rock-oriented audience towards the more later, softer sounds. Yes, "her feeling the song" just came naturally as a singer, as it did to the listeners. So it was just a "maturity" among both parties.

Dave

"Music that grew with us"

 

[Mark-T]

Just my thoughts:
I much prefer the "Horizon" and forward performances over the 65-74 period.

Mark

 

[Dave]

Well, "Furthur Along", there's PASSAGE, where her vocals pretty much remained the way they were on HORIZON, and that worked well even for "Calling Occupants Of Interplanetary Craft".

The newest track I've ever heard Karen do was "Touch Me When We're Dancing", and by then the more milder sounding voicings was what worked for everything Karen sang.

Little difference between HORIZON, PASSAGE and beyond.

Dave

 

[Only Yesterday]

Well, I think she DID CHANGE her way of singing. After Horizon, she started to develop a different way, (the same time they changed their show...). In Hush, it was beging so in songs like "I Have You" she still sing like before, but in Passage, the new sound can be heard in every tracks on that album.

After that time the only songs she sings in a old way would be:

The Christmas's songs
Slow Dance
Where Do I Go From Here
Leave Yesterday Behind
Strenght Of A Woman
Your Baby Doesn't Love You Anymore ( excepet for the chorus)
At The End Of The Song ( excepted for the chorus)

If hear very close you'll notice the difference among those songs and "Two Lives", for example. Although I love the later, I can't help but wonder how it would sound if she recorded in a different way.

The albums where she used the low voice at most was Horizon, maybe after that she tried to soun\d different. In such songs like "Kiss Me The Way..." an\d "Slow |Dance" it works great, but in other I think the songs lost the efect they could have had.

 

[Only Yesterday]

There was a cry in her voice when she sung in a lower key, that was what made those songs so magical...with time both of them lost that trying to go on a alternative way, and forgot about the basement stuff...

Remembering that the producer should put his opinion about that...