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Mr. Guder live

Martin Medrano

Active Member
Thread Starter
hi everyone i saw this video today and i know its a fairly common video of mr guder but i really like Karen's playing on this song. Especially that part from 1:30 to 2:20 in the video. Pay attention to the way she plays the bass drum it really is a great sound. what version of Mr. Guder do you all like best? I prefer this one to the studio recording.


Rick-An Ordinary Fool

Well-Known Member
It’s really great to watch her drumming on this song. But for me this song is not one of my favorites. Maybe because it’s been used too often on so many comps. I usually skip this track when it comes up.:hide:

Carpe diem

Well-Known Member
Nice post Martin, I had not seen that particular performance before. I noticed this also from the 74 Budokan Concert...Is Karen hitting the underside of the cymbal coming off the drum hits (around 2:00)? If yes, is this a common technique for drummers? Or is it all just an optical illusion?

I like the song, but the payoff is in the live versions. Karen is fascinating to watch, she gets so animated!:)


Well-Known Member
I love watching her let loose during live perfs of this but the studio version with the harmonies remains the definitive one (as do nearly all their studio recordings).

Don Malcolm

Well-Known Member
Fabulous, Martin, thanks so much for posting--it reminds us that the Carpenters as a live band were not slouches in terms of delivering punch. I think they enjoyed taking a song that had a more pronounced precision and polish in the studio version and taking it to an unexpected place. As a devotee of the CLOSE TO YOU lp, I'd not want to put this version into the flow of the record, but as part of a live set, where the approach is a bit different, this is extremely enjoyable. And Karen in this time frame is a total ham (...meant in the best possible way, of course!)


Someone said that time would ease the pain...
I, too, love the live versions of Guder to the album version. IIRC, it has been written that Richard and Karen were sticklers about live performances always being performed the same night after night. But I have always felt that this performance of Guder seems so spontaneous as if they are making it up as they go along.

I noticed the underside hit on the cymbal as well. Due to the grainy nature of the image I always thought my eyes were playing tricks on me. Glad someone else sees it, too.

Another Son

Well-Known Member
Although this performance fits in well with the live show, I prefer the studio recording.

On this live performance, though, I particularly like Bob Messenger's flute. It's interesting to hear a different arrangement of this instrument on the song.

I couldn't see the drumstick hits on the underside of the cymbals. The cymbals were also veering down on Karen's side with every hit, rather than up, as they would have been if she'd been hitting them on the underside, (as far as I could see). Hitting them on the underside would create different reverberation and a different sound from hitting them on the top side and varying downswing glances with upswing hits could compromise the sound. However, apparently, one of Karen's idols, Buddy Rich, used to hit the cymbals on the underside in performances, so it is a technique that is sometimes used - so I guess it's quite possible that she was doing this, after all.

Another Son

Well-Known Member
I forgot to say, I always like the 'Do do do do do do dooo' line that Karen sings during the instrumental break of the live versions of 'Mr. Guder' - which isn't on the studio version, of course. I like the sound that she creates in this short passage.


I Know My First Name Is Stephen
I don’t see the underside cymbal hit at all. If she was doing that, the side of the cymbal closest to the camera would go down, but it goes up, indicating a strike from her own side.

Carpe diem

Well-Known Member
Thanks to all that addressed what I thought was a underside cymbal hit. I will yield to the consensus and say she is hitting the cymbals specifically at the top. And I will make an appointment to the optometrist for a long overdue eye exam! :)
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