Sealed LPs

[andywithaz]

If you had sealed Carpenters LPs would you open them?

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

Without knowing why you ask the question it's hard to answer.

If your thinking about the value of the Lp because it's not open. It depends on the LP, Offering always seems to bring alot of money & even more if it's not open. However most all the other albums you can get for cheap even the sealed ones.

But remember that just because an LP is sealed doesn't mean it will play perfect when opened. I've bought some Lp's that were sealed & didn't play well at all when opened, other I bought used & they play perfect. So it's just a matter of getting lucky.

But to buy a sealed Lp & for it to sit & collect dust your not enjoying the music. All my C Lp's are opened except "A Kind of Hush" I'm saving that one for a rainy day (possibly on a Monday)

 

[engineer]

It's actually a good idea to remove the shrink wrap from LPs -- certain types of shrink wrap actually continue to shrink with age, and after 20 years can place enough stress on the LPs to warp them.

I've had bad luck in recent years with a couple of "still sealed" LPs I've purchased, in which the vinyl is slightly to moderately warped. That might have been due to the way the LPs were stored, but the shrink wrap could have also been the problem. I've taken to looking for used records labeled "Mint" condition, rather than "still sealed" copies because of that.
Dan

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

Dan I agree, however I found a sealed copy of Horizons with original stickers & opened it recently to find this LP is a gem, I swear that it sounds 110% better than my original CD of the same title. I burned a copy of the LP to CD & I will never go back to the original CD. The Lp copy is so much better, hard to explain but it's true.

 

[W.B.]

I generally avoid "sealed" copies of LP's as a rule, not so much for the reasons cited by some (the "shrink wrap shrinks even more with age" example, f'rinstance) as for my concern about what pressing would be inside (and thus, which collection of fonts would be used to make up the label copy). Especially given that A&M, back in the Carpenters' heyday, used at least four pressing plants to manufacture their product, three of which were owned by Columbia. Who knows if the "sealed" LP is a Monarch pressing, or a copy pressed by Columbia/Terre Haute or /Santa Maria? My preference, as y'all know, is for Columbia/Pitman pressings with a combination of Linotype and some Intertype fonts. "Open" LP's, by looking inside and seeing what fonts are on a label, have enabled me to determine whether to buy or not to buy an album over the years.

 

[Rudy]

One reason I prefer sealed is that I know the LP hasn't been played on bad equipment. I buy a lot from the 60's, and something that was played on cheaper equipment (a console, for instance) is often torn to shreds, especially on the inner grooves.

 

[Dave]

Uh, well, buying ONE still sealed copy of something won't make the rest of my collection sound any better. If I go through enough (usually 2 or 3) second-hand (or FORTIETH-Hand) copies, I'll finally break down for a freshly wrapped one.

In the case of my Roger Nichols & The Small Circle Of Friends, a Still Sealed was the ONLY one around, and DIRT CHEAP, compared to what I'd see it would go for elsewhere, after I grabbed what seemed to be the LAST ONE right off the shelf. It still sounds good, but no sooner after its purchase, did I break down and buy it on CD with Extra Trax, so THAT is getting the most play. Wish I could get Johnny Magnus' liner notes about the group and songs to fit in the CD case, THEN I wouldn't need the vinyl. :|

Dave

 

[Dave]

If you had sealed Carpenters LPs, would you open them?

Aside from ocassionally seeing HORIZON and at least ONE copy of A KIND OF HUSH still-sealed, I did buy THE CARPENTERS still-sealed. It turned out to be a later tan and silver labeled copy, but at least it was worth buying "unplayed", except by me. Also, I wouldn't have to worry about the "envelope" style cover getting mangled up, either--it went into a plastic LP cover right after I opened it. Sure would have liked to get A SONG FOR YOU still-sealed, though.

But, Yes, I get albums to PLAY, so YES, they'd be OPENED!

Dave

...to answer Andrew's question and ...stay on topic...

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

Oh Dave just reminded me, I actually have 2 still sealed Carpenters LP's, along with mentioned above also recently picked of A Song For You, still sealed with original sticker says-"Included Top of the World" Looking Forwarded to opening that one & hoping to be On Top Of The World

...going back over my record collection, online...

 

[andywithaz]

Well for presents I received some sealed ones.

These are all sealed

Carpenters
A Song For You
The Singles 1969-1973
Live at the Palladium
A Kind of Hush
Horizon
Yesterday Once More (2 LP set)
Voice of the Heart

The only one that I have that is really tight is A Song for You. This is the only one that I think that might be warped. I would of thought that the tan album would be warped because it is the oldest. It is the original pressng with the special gatefold.

I am really debating about opening the Singles 1969-1973. It is a later pressing because it doesn't have the embossing and it has a barcode on the back. Any idea of when it was pressed

 

[andywithaz]

Dan I agree, however I found a sealed copy of Horizons with original stickers & opened it recently to find this LP is a gem, I swear that it sounds 110% better than my original CD of the same title. I burned a copy of the LP to CD & I will never go back to the original CD. The Lp copy is so much better, hard to explain but it's true.

I just bought a NM Horizon from gemm and it so awesome. It is just like Chris said.

 

[jfiedler17]

But remember that just because an LP is sealed doesn't mean it will play perfect when opened. I've bought some Lp's that were sealed & didn't play well at all when opened.

One example (one on A&M, too) immediately comes to MY mind. I don't know if anyone else who has this album has ever had the same problem, but I've gone through maybe four vinyl copies of Orchestral Manoeuvres in the Dark's "The Pacific Age" (at least one of which was definitely sealed), and every single one of them skipped like crazy during the first song ("Stay"). I have absolutely no idea why this is. My sister's run into the same problem. We've never been able to figure it out.

 

[Rudy]

I am really debating about opening the Singles 1969-1973. It is a later pressing because it doesn't have the embossing and it has a barcode on the back. Any idea of when it was pressed

If I had to ballpark it--probably late 70's to early 80's. Definitely the silver label era, and not an original pressing. Not that it's a bad thing though.

 

[Rudy]

One example (one on A&M, too) immediately comes to MY mind. I don't know if anyone else who has this album has ever had the same problem, but I've gone through maybe four vinyl copies of Orchestral Manoeuvres in the Dark's "The Pacific Age" (at least one of which was definitely sealed), and every single one of them skipped like crazy during the first song ("Stay"). I have absolutely no idea why this is. My sister's run into the same problem. We've never been able to figure it out.

What were you playing it on? If it wasn't cut well (cut too hot, perhaps), the stylus probably couldn't follow the groove and jumped out instead.

 

[Rich]

In our little city in Fl, we have a used record store that has about 10,000 records. A Few days ago I found a sealed Passage LP,Sp-4703. I set up my old turntable and started playing each cut.

Right away I new what the full warm great sound of a new lp used to sound like. The same CD can't come close. I brought out the open reel and reorded it right away.

Can any person please tell me why a 1977 record can beat a CD ?

By the way , I have 3 CD players and 1 is new , its not my equipment. My amps., headsets, speakers, are fine. I have 11 Carpenters CDs. and 10 records. Even the old records seem to have a richer sound.

 

[Chris]

I know what you mean, Rich. Sometimes the LP just sounds better. This is reminding me of two of my favorite LPs that are from the 60s. One is a Columbia Christmas compilation with tracks from Andy Williams, Johnny Mathis, The King Family, Steve & Edie, etc. The other is the LP of Al Hirt's "Cotton Candy". When they finally released all this stuff on CD, yes it was cleaner sounding, but just not as rich. The CDs are missing some sort of warmth and richness that those LPs had. It just does not sound as full.

 

[Rudy]

It could be any number of things. A&M's most recent CD reissue of Horizon (in the Remastered Classics series) is probably the best CD version of that album we'll ever get. But I agree, it may not have the same warmth that a good vinyl playback system may have.

While it's not directly related, I did notice something with the remastered Rolling Stones disc of Beggar's Banquet. This is a hybrid CD/SACD release, dual-layer so it can be played on standard CD players as well as the better SACD units. On my Pioneer Elite DV-45A, I can select which layer I want to play. While I could not switch between them quickly, I did a comparison anyway using "Street Fighting Man". If you're not familiar with it, it starts with a sole electric guitar which is kind of "jangly" (for lack of a better term), followed by some hefty whacks on Charlie Watts' drum kit. After Charlie kicks it into gear and the rest of the instruments join in, Jagger starts singing. The CD layer, to me, sounded a bit more harsh to me, having a negligible but noticeable "glare" to the sound. The SACD layer just seemed to reveal more...the grit in Richards' guitar, as though you were standing just a couple feet from his amp; the solid "whomp" of Watts' drumsticks on the floor tom; Mick's voice. And all without that glare to it. I've noticed it with other SACDs as well: I can never jump up and down to point out a huge difference in sound, but there's that lack of glare, and a freedom from the listening fatigue I've gotten for years from CD. Another friend of mine also clued me into something: his wife doesn't know anything about the technology, but she, too, notices the lack of fatigue when the "better discs" are playing.

There may be other factors involved too--your cartridge, or your phono preamp, may have a small bit of a mid-bass rise to it, which adds some warmth. But vinyl, too, would be free of that little bit of glare and edge that's common with most CDs out there today. Better CD mastering minimizes that effect, and you could certainly spend a few thousand on a high-end CD player with an external D/A converter (and maybe even a tubed preamp)...but you get to a point of diminishing returns. A good turntable and cartridge, a clean preamp, and a minty slab of good ol' vinyl can still sound wonderfully analog.

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

Update!!!!! a few posts up you'll see that I mentioned I had a sealed copy of "A Song for You" with original sticker still on the shrink wrap.

Well...................................................drum roll....................

YYYYIIIPPPEEEEEEEEEEEEE Goody emoticon!!!!!

I was estatic to find this LP to be perfect. My other Lp had so much pop & was really worn, it had this annoying tick on 2 tracks in a row that drove me to find a sealed copy. Finally opened it tonight after 6 months of buying it, cleaned it with my record doctor machine (I love this machine) and had a very grooovey time tonight.

...realizing the little things make me happy, online....

 

[Harry]

Somehow, a sealed LP is just sad: unlistened to music. It says that the owner just isn't interested in listening to it, and more than likely is more interested in selling it.

Sure, I understand the collector mentality - something rare in pristine shape fetches bigger bucks. But that's part of it - a sealed record exists to fetch bucks, not to provide the owner with what it was designed to do: provide entertainment.

Harry
...listening to the music, online...

 

[W.B.]

Somehow, a sealed LP is just sad: unlistened to music. It says that the owner just isn't interested in listening to it, and more than likely is more interested in selling it.

Sure, I understand the collector mentality - something rare in pristine shape fetches bigger bucks. But that's part of it - a sealed record exists to fetch bucks, not to provide the owner with what it was designed to do: provide entertainment.

For some reason, this whole mindset of which you speak reminds me of trading stocks on Wall Street, and I personally find it reprehensible. Rather, I see record collecting as more of a long-term investment. And every once in a while I do play them.

This is especially an issue with me, given my preference for albums and singles on many labels that were pressed by Columbia in Pitman, NJ (or Bridgeport, CT prior to 1963-64; or, at the very least, used label copy artwork from the respective plants). I do allow for differences viz the likes of RCA, Capitol and Decca / MCA -- but in each of those cases, I veer more towards East Coast pressings.

 

[DAN BOLTON]

One example (one on A&M, too) immediately comes to MY mind. I don't know if anyone else who has this album has ever had the same problem, but I've gone through maybe four vinyl copies of Orchestral Manoeuvres in the Dark's "The Pacific Age" (at least one of which was definitely sealed), and every single one of them skipped like crazy during the first song ("Stay"). I have absolutely no idea why this is. My sister's run into the same problem. We've never been able to figure it out.

What were you playing it on? If it wasn't cut well (cut too hot, perhaps), the stylus probably couldn't follow the groove and jumped out instead.

Are you referring to a "pinch-edge-warp"? That would happen when the disc was trimmed just after it was pressed...to save time, a lot of plants would trim their pressings before they'd really cooled enough, and the pressure from the trimmer would ripple the soft plastic. The first couple of songs especially would be affected by this, especially if the turntable wasn't large enough in diameter to suport the weight of the entire album,and the first quarter-inch or so would overlap it. I had a lot of albums in the late '70's, including some A&Ms that sufferred from this problem...it was almost impossible to detect from just looking at the record. I also got a few that were stamped off-center. A record weight may have helped a pinch-edge-warp, but nothing but replacement would work for the other problem.


Dan, who picked up mono copies of WHIPPED DREAM, GIONG PLACES and WHAT NOW MY LOVE at the local Goodwill store last night, all Capitol pressings...no album numbers on the covers, the GOING PLACES might be stereo, haven't been able to play them yet...the others say mono on the labels...also got an 8 track of CONEY ISLAND, but it's "loose" , no packaging...got all 4 for 4 bucks...

 

[DAN BOLTON]

Pardon my faux-pas Freudian slip...we all know it's WHIPPED CREAM...

 

[Rudy]

One example (one on A&M, too) immediately comes to MY mind. I don't know if anyone else who has this album has ever had the same problem, but I've gone through maybe four vinyl copies of Orchestral Manoeuvres in the Dark's "The Pacific Age" (at least one of which was definitely sealed), and every single one of them skipped like crazy during the first song ("Stay"). I have absolutely no idea why this is. My sister's run into the same problem. We've never been able to figure it out.

My copy of the Herb Alpert/Hugh Masekela album did that, but on an inner track. And only on lesser turntables. The bass was just cut too hot and it would make the cheaper cartridges jump grooves. No problem with that on my current setup.

I have also seen pinched outer grooves, like Dan mentions. But that wasn't a skipping problem so much as a sort of "squished" sound and a noticeable inward movement of the tonearm. Some turntables, again, might skip if this is the case. (This one was a promo ABC record from the mid 70's...I got it new back then from a local studio.)

 

[Rudy]

Sure, I understand the collector mentality - something rare in pristine shape fetches bigger bucks. But that's part of it - a sealed record exists to fetch bucks, not to provide the owner with what it was designed to do: provide entertainment.

There are a few reasons for remaining NOS (new old stock) sealed LPs:

1. Dealers will sometimes buy up remaining inventories from other dealers, one-stops, warehouses, etc. I remember a period over five years ago where Car City Records routinely had sealed 60's A&Ms in stock, and I'd find one or two every couple of times I went. Even now, an acquaintance of mine on another forum routinely has sealed LPs he's selling for $3, but mainly 70's and 80's. So there are still remaining stocks of LPs out there.

2. Some collectors might buy a backup copy, like I do--if my main one gets damaged, I have one to fall back on. If I find a sealed copy, I'll leave it that way. If I find I no longer need it, I can sell it off. Other collectors may just buy too many records to listen to and, as a result, never open them. I came across an eBay auction for an entire collection of tens of thousands of LPs...it's mind boggling to think that one person could buy that many LPs and be able to listen to all of them. I highly doubt it. Someone like that is bound to have sealed or, at least, opened but unplayed items in a collection that large.

3. Some LPs are indeed collectibles, and are trading much like other investments. A lot of other items are collectibles, so it's not just limited to LPs and CDs. I will go on a limb and say this, though: an artist or band like Elvis, Beatles, Rolling Stones, etc. have certain rarities that do command a hefty price tag and are worth it to collectors, but aside from a few rare titles, A&M's catalog will never command that kind of money, attention or respect. Just look at any good price guide, and compare what various titles are selling for.

The only practice that *I* personally do not like are these "eBay traders" who attempt to dry up supply by purchasing every copy they can at a reasonable price, and immediately reselling for a horribly inflated profit, waiting for "sucker sales" (as I call 'em). I very much get the impression that this practice is perpetuated by these "get rich quick selling on eBay" books that proliferate like cockroaches.

 

[andywithaz]

By the way, when I went to NYC I stopped at Virgin Megastore and bought some records.

Pink Floyd-Dark Side Of The Moon
Norah Jones- Feels Like Home
Britney Spears- Toxic 12" DJ Single

They were brand new sealed LPs and were about $25 a piece. They are pressed on heavy vinyl( 3x as heavy as old vinyl) and yet they surface noise at places and popping. The surface noise is suspected but popping!

This only covers about 2% of the record but still I paid $25 a pop.

Why would there be popping if they are pressed on high-quality vinyl?

Is there anything I can do about it?