Streaming is a big joke (2024 edition)

[Mike Blakesley]

Some time ago I put together a playlist on Amazon Music "Unlimited" of America, one of my favorite acts. It's always been a good relaxing choice when I'm looking for something mellow. It's basically all their albums in order, with the few songs I dislike stripped out. So it's most of their catalog until you get past the first five or six albums.

So tonight I fired it up, and when it got to "I Need You," to my surprise the original version didn't play (even though the album cover and etc. was displayed correctly), but some alternate take version that sounds like it came from a box set bonus disk.

I thought it was maybe just a programming goof, so I decided to swap in one of the many other iterations of the song from one of the many hits collections they have out. So I went looking for the original version and.... it's not there. EVERY instance of it plays a live version, a different "remix" version or an outtake version.

Making matters worse, the deeper I get into the debut album, I note that at least some other tracks have been swapped out as well. It's as if they lost the license for the album so they've just pieced it together from whatever other versions of the songs they can find. Maybe they will fix this after a bit, but who knows. The worst thing is there's no way to gripe about it to anyone -- except you fine folks here!

Yet another reason to hang onto those CDs, folks.

They also still don't have Santana's Carvanserai.

 

[Mike Blakesley]

I have noticed that Amazon lately has been playing more and more "remakes" of songs. The original artist but it's a re-recorded or "live" version. This is one of my pet peeves with this service. Or it might be the original recording but instead of the proper album cover, it is displaying some random "collection" like '80s Party Hits or the like.

For something that purports to be the perfect music solution (or would like to be seen that way, at least) they sure have a sloppy, shoddy operation. Don't even get my started on the lyric displays, which are often wrong.

 

[Michael Hagerty]

Amazon is almost as bad at audio streaming as they are good at video streaming.

I spent some time looking at Amazon Music when Spotify landed on my FTG list, and it didn't take long to figure out that I'd be profoundly disappointed.

I've found Apple Music to be (mostly) free of that sort of nonsense. And as Rudy has told us, Qobuz is stellar.

 

[Harry]

With a record collection that included a number of 45s and albums from AMERICA, I never felt the need to buy much from them. But sometime in the 90s, with money burning a hole in my pocket one day, I picked up a CD of their Greatest Hits called HISTORY. I figured that would hold me for a long time.

And I was wrong. i guess I didn't listen to that CD much - or carefully - but it turned out that many of the tracks were remixed and altered by George Martin. Whenever I wanted an America track on a homemade mixtape/homemade CD, I ended up digging out my 45s or old radio station albums. That CD was mostly useless to me. It was like buying a 1950's comp and finding that all of the tracks were rerecorded by the original artists in the 70s or 80s. Again, useless to me.

So, back in 2021, I decided to grab this 2011 Rhino five album "box set" called ORIGINAL ALBUM SERIES with the first five five mini albums from America.


That now gets me all of America's 72 - 75 output, which is the sweet spot for my liking the group.

Streaming? Rarely go there.

 

[Mike Blakesley]

I have that box set. I do love the mini-LP reproductions -- they did a good job on it except for one tiny flaw: On the Homecoming album, the tall inside photo on the trifold cover is upside down compared to the way it was on the original album cover. That's one of my all-time favorite covers, so on the occasion I pull that disk out, I always tend to unfold the cover and it bugs me to have to flip it over to look at the credits. (First-world problems, I know.)

The main reason I have a streaming account at all is to provide background music at work. Amazon is the only service I've found that will keep playing music continuously without having to touch the computer. Plus, we already have Amazon Prime so it was cheap to add Music "Unlimited." I do love that anytime I get a whim to hear anything (or a new release that seems interesting) it's there to play. But not everything is there.

I've slowly started embracing the streaming music in my vehicle, since my iPod is currently working poorly and is probably on its last legs. But using the phone for music is problematic.
- It doesn't just pick up where you left off, like a CD would.
- Sometimes it just stops for no reason
- You don't always have a signal in these parts.

To combat the last problem, I've downloaded a bunch of my favorite stuff, but that doesn't solve the first two problems which are maddening.

 

[Rudy]

Thread should be titled "Amazon Streaming is a big joke" though, IMHO...

And as Rudy has told us, Qobuz is stellar.

Their selection isn't as complete as some of the others, but what little they lack is made up for in sound quality. Plus, some of the albums have multiple release versions, so we can choose among whichever one has the mastering we prefer. It's up to the labels, though, which versions they decide can remain with the streamers. For the Genesis catalog, as one glaring example, the band and the label have determined that the 2007 Nick Davis remixes, which are widely regarded as sounding like hot garbage, are the only official copies to be made available for purchase or streaming. So, those are all that will be found on any service.

Amazon is trying to appeal to the lowest common denominator, and being the mega-corporation that they are, they don't have proper music staff on hand to curate and present the correct versions to their consumers. If they can sell a SKU number (they call it their ASIN) through streaming or download, it's mission accomplished. Yeah, they do offer high-res, but the sources are suspect and you have to use their terrible interface to play them only through their computer or phone app (which themselves are suspect--we can never determine if they offer bit-perfect playback like Qobuz does); they don't even allow access to their library via APIs, so they've eliminated most consumer electronics brands from using their service.

That is one advantage to Qobuz--it's a smaller company run by music lovers and audiophiles, some of whom are musicians themselves, and they know what kinds of devices their customers are using. Their technical side can sometimes be a little behind the curve, but when I use it through Roon Player (which seamlessly integrates their selection of millions of tracks into my own digital library), it's dead easy to use. Granted I have an industry connection to one of their top people, but even without that, they're a company that will reply if you contact them. (Unlike Amazon, where you end up communicating with an offshore CSR who has a limited grasp of the English language.)

Honestly in the 2020s, I can't get the logic behind any serious music lover not having a streaming subscription...even if just for reference. I do use Qobuz when I'm out of the house, but there are times I want to compare release versions to see which one I want to download, and also helpful to tell when something is original or a re-recording. Or very often, I'm curious to hear what someone might recommend here in the forum--I can take that chance on "new" music without it costing me a penny. (And no offense...I often don't like something that's recommended. ) Especially in the vinyl era, and it's music I'm unfamiliar with...listening to it a few times on a subscription has saved me buying records I didn't care for musically.

Buy one less CD or record per month, or hold off on that Starbucks order a few times, and a streaming service is already covered. Or I never thought I'd be saying this, but...for less than the cost of a fast food meal these days...

Just avoid Amazon...and Spotify. (Spotify is one of the worst at compensating artists for streams, and also keeps some really bad company among their podcasters.)

 

[Harry]

As I'm still driving a car from 2007 which has no Bluetooth, only a 6-CD player, I've tended to stick with making CDs for any traveling I might do. Thing there is, being retired, I don't do much driving that's more than a half-hour long any more. Mostly, it's short hops of 10 or 20 minutes at most, so there's not a lot of need to make special CDs, or dig out discs for these short trips. I keep a few homemade discs in the player with Alpert, Baja, Carpenters, Mendes and recently removed the Christmas disc that's been in there for a month.

Nonetheless, I suppose I'm being dragged kicking and screaming into a more modern age. I've recently acquired a little Bluetooth receiver that plugs into my car's 3.5mm jack. So it allows me to stream stuff from my phone into the car's audio system, and even do hand's free calling! Imagine that!

I got this device because I need a new phone, and they're not making them with 3.5mm headphone jacks any more. My ancient phone currently can plug directly into that Aux input, but when I get a new phone, that ability will go away. So, I got this cheapy little Bluetooth receiver/converter, and it's actually more for listening to MLB baseball during the season than music, but that could change. I'm not ready to sign up for music streaming services just yet. From what samples I've heard, they tend to veer too far into unknown territory, and I'm a creature of habit/comfort. I suppose I'm more like the typical radio listener of old who didn't want to hear anything unfamiliar. But that's just me. I'm old and set in my ways. Whenever I DO discover something new and unfamiliar, it's usually a true revelation and one I stick with for a long time. Example would be that Jack Daugherty album. I must have listened to that a few hundred times and now every note of it is familiar - just the way I like my music.

 

[Rudy]

But using the phone for music is problematic.
- It doesn't just pick up where you left off, like a CD would.
- Sometimes it just stops for no reason
- You don't always have a signal in these parts.

To combat the last problem, I've downloaded a bunch of my favorite stuff, but that doesn't solve the first two problems which are maddening.

Yeah, that can be super annoying. There are a lot of different music players out there, but those are for your own collection of files, not streaming. For many of the streaming services, you are at the mercy of the apps they provide. The Qobuz app has never stopped on me, but, I also don't use their "radio" feature where it will play music. (I need to try that one of these days.)

I do, however, understand why they need to stop the stream--someone who's streaming for hours might have stepped away, and paying for bandwidth is expensive to these services. So stopping unused streams is saving more bandwidth for everyone. I think with my Pandora subscription, I only have to interact with it once per session to let it know I'm still there. (Just opening the window will take care of it.) But the free version will stop frequently if it sees no interaction.

I have YouTube Premium, so I don't know if this subscription applies to YouTube Music or not. But, back on 12/25, I was in the mood to hear Horace Silver, and asked Google Assistant to play Horace Silver on my family room soundbar. (More out of curiousity to see what would happen.) It played for a few hours before it stopped--I think it was a hiccup in the Chromecast on my network vs. the player, as I repeated it the next day and it cycled through all the Horace Silver songs for several hours until I shut it down myself.

I'd almost suggest SiriusXM but ever since Sirius took over XM, they've dumbed down the programming and the sound quality is flat out dreadful now--they're cramming a lot of signal into a small section of bandwidth and the sound suffers from very heavy data compression...like a bad MP3 file. I tried listening to a classical station when I picked up a car several years ago, and the piano sections sounded like they were being played underwater.

 

[Rudy]

I'm not ready to sign up for music streaming services just yet. From what samples I've heard, they tend to veer too far into unknown territory, and I'm a creature of habit/comfort.

In this era, you choose what you want to play, like a giant library of albums...and had it been around when you bought the America CD, it would have saved you the cost of buying it.

Some of us use the "radio" function for an artist or genre (or a curated playlist on Qobuz) if we want to hear a specific type of background music but by and large, most listeners I know go for individual albums. It's also quite surprising to find albums I never knew existed--some of the Brazilian artists from the 60s made albums that were rarely heard outside the country, and I can now sample those to see if I want to buy them. Or, I can at least listen to an original composer's version of a track to see what it sounds like, and it costs me nothing. Even some favorite artists we've discussed here on this site...I discovered albums of theirs I never knew existed. I've started calling this "credit surfing," as I'll see a composer or musician in the credits and see what they have to offer. That's how I got into Joao Donato's, as one example--he released some great music in the 60s, and many of his tunes were covered by many artists we already know well. It's also great for those "memory lane" moments when I want to hear something I may have heard in high school...and usually, one every 20-30 years is as often as I'd want to hear it! It scratches that bizarre itch for me as well.

It's also pretty cool when you're trying to remember a song heard on the radio decades ago. A Google search might help turn it up, but then you turn to the streaming service to play it and see if that's the track you remember. (Keep in mind, too, many already use a "free" streaming service every time they look for something on YouTube...so in a sense, everyone might already have streaming to an extent and not even realize it yet.)

I don't use it while driving--I pay for my data by the gigabyte, so it's impractical for that use. But I can always download dozens of things to the phone if I need to. I use a large SD card and a USB thumb drive on the car's head unit, as it plays lossless files--I carry more than I'll ever listen to, but it's been great when I need to stay awake 12 hours behind the wheel and need some variety. That one trip (2022?), I think I played all CTI all the way from here to Nebraska. Good times!

I am probably not a typical streaming user, as I tend to see it more as an important resource in making purchase decisions, and discovering where a song or artist may have come from originally via credit surfing. Away from home is when I start using it as a portable music library--just about everything I own digitally is available, so I no longer have to carry a big CD case with me. If it's not on there, no big deal--I can put the record on when I get home, and just choose something else to listen to.

BTW, cool side note about the YouTube Music app. For kicks, I wanted to see what would happen when I searched for "something festive." In my search results, the A&M Corner version came up first. I was able to tap on it, then tapped on the "Cast" icon to send it to one of the Chromecast-capable systems in the house, and it was playing there with no fuss at all. Since the app plays only music, it was perfect. (I don't use chapters on my videos since I have had them flagged for copyright when I've done so...but the flags were removed when the chapters were deleted, so... .)

 

[Harry]

And if I ever get a car with a thumb-drive input, I'll probably use that the same way I currently use CDs, only with more expansive capabilities. It's just that now, my old car doesn't do much more than driving to our clubhouse or going to a local restaurant for a meal. It's been a bit on the cold side here in Florida for the past month, and I find myself getting where I'm going before the car heater even kicks into gear. Going to the clubhouse is a five-minute or less trip. I can barely get through a Tijuana Brass or Baja Marimba Band song in that time.

 

[Mike Blakesley]

We have SiriusXM, but I hardly ever listen to music on it. Mostly I use that for news and comedy. My wife uses it for music because she's not as picky as me when driving.

I'm a bit like Harry in that I guess my biggest issue with streaming in the vehicle is the amount of short trips I take. I only live 3 minutes from work. All of my "daily errands" are within three city blocks of where I work -- in the summer, I tend to walk sometimes, but in the interest of time, I usually drive. I've tried everything I can think of to make my stupid phone just stop a song when I get out of the vehicle and then start it up again when I get back in. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. (Usually it doesn't.) It's a hassle to have to get in the truck, pull the phone out, get to the Music "Unlimited" screen, find what I was listening to (because sometimes it's randomly buried under a few "recommendations") and click Play when I've only got a two-minute drive ahead of me....so that's when I listen to the SiriusXM.

I was a big fan of USB drives for a while. In between iTunes updates for the iPod, I'd throw a bunch of files on a USB stick. The problem with THAT is, Ford's "Sync" infotainment system refuses to show folders. You can have all your tunes arranged neatly in folders, but all the screen will give you is a list of the songs. It's beyond irritating. I suppose it's to stop you from fiddling with navigating the folders etc. while driving. So I've mostly given up on using USB drives.

I'm convinced that the people who design some of these things never actually have to use them in real life.

 

[Michael Hagerty]

(Spotify is one of the worst at compensating artists for streams, and also keeps some really bad company among their podcasters.)

That's what got them on my FTG list.

 

[Rudy]

I'm a bit like Harry in that I guess my biggest issue with streaming in the vehicle is the amount of short trips I take.

FWIW, I've never once streamed in a car. And I mean music, not...well, I won't go there.

Occasionally I've mistakenly tapped Pandora in the car and it has started playing, but it wasn't intentional. Same with Qobuz, for that matter, although if was playing one of the tracks on my phone earlier (which I've downloaded), it was simply resuming where it left off.

But as a rule, data plans are too expensive for streaming. Granted I have to pay per GB of data but, most months, if I'm working and staying near home, I barely use any data. Road trips, I might hit $60 or $70/month as I'm running navigation, Highway Radar app, and a couple other things while driving. (And on rallies, posting checkpoints with photos.)

I was a big fan of USB drives for a while. In between iTunes updates for the iPod, I'd throw a bunch of files on a USB stick. The problem with THAT is, Ford's "Sync" infotainment system refuses to show folders. You can have all your tunes arranged neatly in folders, but all the screen will give you is a list of the songs. It's beyond irritating. I suppose it's to stop you from fiddling with navigating the folders etc. while driving. So I've mostly given up on using USB drives.

I'm convinced that the people who design some of these things never actually have to use them in real life.

Not only folders and such, but some of those systems are ultra fussy about the file format. It can't be just an MP3--it has to be an exact type of MP3 file it can handle or the file won't play or even be recognized in the list of songs.

That is my biggest regret of every new vehicle made today--we are stuck with their terrible audio systems. Even the least expensive touchscreen aftermarket head units are not only functionally way ahead, they can sound much better with the right outboard equipment.

They are also less fussy about file formats (I know mine work with FLAC up to 24-bit/192kHz, MP3, WMA, maybe one or two others...and the most recent models also accept DSF files, which are the DSD digital used on SACDs), and many work well with multiple-depth folders. The two Pioneers I have now are easy enough to navigate. My main folders are the alphabet (A-D, D-F, G-I, etc.), and beneath those, the artists are sorted into folders. And under each artist folder are the album title folders. These head units do let you select by the ID Tag of the music files, but the folder sorting is still easier to navigate.

Auto manufacturers naturally assume everyone just streams from a smartphone. And they probably believe nobody ever used the USB they provided in earlier years, oblivious to the fact that their USB implementations were deeply flawed and essentially unusable. I tried it in one of our cars when it arrived (I think the head units were manufactured by Matsu$#!^a aka Panasonic) and it was just as dismal.

 

[Michael Hagerty]

FWIW, I've never once streamed in a car. And I mean music, not...well, I won't go there.

Long distances, not a lot of rest stops in Utah. Rudy, we're not here to judge.

Occasionally I've mistakenly tapped Pandora in the car and it has started playing, but it wasn't intentional. Same with Qobuz, for that matter, although if was playing one of the tracks on my phone earlier (which I've downloaded), it was simply resuming where it left off.

But as a rule, data plans are too expensive for streaming. Granted I have to pay per GB of data but, most months, if I'm working and staying near home, I barely use any data. Road trips, I might hit $60 or $70/month as I'm running navigation, Highway Radar app, and a couple other things while driving. (And on rallies, posting checkpoints with photos.)

I've had unlimited data for so long, I've lost track that it's not universal.

 

[Mike Blakesley]

We just got unlimited data this year. We were badgered into it, basically -- we got tired of paying overage charges, which may or may not have happened because my wife likes to watch Netflix and I do a lot of Youtube-watching.... it's like water, I guess.

 

[Rudy]

Long distances, not a lot of rest stops in Utah. Rudy, we're not here to judge.

That said, I prefer any such streaming to occur outside the car.

I've had unlimited data for so long, I've lost track that it's not universal.

i would only need it for months I traveled a lot, so it didn't make sense to pay so much for something I don't use. My normal bills are usually $25 to $28 when not traveling. But if I go over a certain threshold (6gb?), they stop charging overage unless it surpasses 15gb. Also, it uses a built-in VPN so I can connect to open public WiFi for calls (seamlessly switching between the two, even mid-call).

One other reason I stick with it is that I can have my LTE watch and up to five (?) data SIM cards with no additional fees except for the data used. I have two older phones and an LTE hotspot in addition to my primary phone and the watch. At other carriers, additional devices get charged, so this is by far the cheapest way. I sometimes use the older 5G phone hidden in the center console via USB to the head unit, so I always have Internet in the car when I'm on the road trips. Or on the last trip, I used it for the Highway Radar app so it could pull in its own data, and my primary phone was connected by wireless to the head unit. My oldest phone is the "beater" I'll use in places I don't want to take a good phone.

 

[Nemily]

I stream a lot while I am working mainly because it is considerably more convenient for me to use a streaming service than to distract myself from whatever I am working on and constantly change music on physical formats. Also, I can pause it super quick. I also stream a lot on my Wiim Pro’s when I am roaming about the house just to have background music on.

I like Apple Music the most. It is the easiest for me to search and play a song or album or create and modify playlists. I am constantly checking out new music, never listened to music or rediscovered music that I don’t own. Apple Music has a pretty big inventory.

Aside from having just about any song or album at my fingertips, I love that Apple Music created my own station based on music I play. It is like the ultimate playlist. What I don’t love is other stations (all platforms) are pretty much just pre-programmed.

I have everything I need on other formats, and as I find myself less and less passive about condoning the never-ending increasing costs of streaming, this is an ongoing love/don’t love relationship.

 

[Harry]

That said, I prefer any such streaming to occur outside the car.

Baja Marimba Band = music's first streamers!

 

[Michael Hagerty]

the never-ending increasing costs of streaming

Groucho Marx in "Animal Crackers":





"We'll set up a 75-cent meal that'll knock their eyes out.

One we knock their eyes out, we can charge anything we want."

 

[Rudy]

I stream a lot while I am working mainly because it is considerably more convenient for me to use a streaming service than to distract myself from whatever I am working on and constantly change music on physical formats.

I'll do that with my "curated" Pandora stations--if I'm too busy to even pick an album or long playlist, I'll hit that instead and let it fly. If I need a change, I'll change the station to its Deep Cuts or Discovery mode.

Having said that, if I work from home and spin records all day, it's good to get up out of the chair, and I feel a lot better at the end of the day.