Carpenters - Change the record (Lyric)!

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

I think you can drive your self crazy over this stuff. I mean what kind of grammar is B’wana She No Home and why are we feeding deer at the door?

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

I think you can drive your self crazy over this stuff. I mean what kind of grammar is B’wana She No Home and why are we feeding deer at the door?

It is grammatical...in Pidgin.

Ed

 

[byline]

I've always noticed it and it's always very slightly bothered me too. It's grammatically incorrect. However, with "I'm", it just doesn't "meter" as well. That's likely why it was left out.

Ed

I'm sure you're right. Sadly, I have this editor in my brain that doesn't care about a detail like that and just won't shut up. It's the curse of writing for a living. Every little thing gets edited! The missing noun and verb caught my attention and never let go.

 

[byline]

They could have just left out the "And" at the front of that line. "I'm fool enough to think that's what I'll find." Then it would have the right number of syllables and make sense lyrically. But, it wouldn't flow as well with the line ahead of it.

I agree, that would have worked! I wonder why they didn't go that route instead. It's possible that for Karen it was a vocal-sound choice ("and" sounding more appealing to her than "I'm").

 

[Bartog739]

"And" just seems more natural, moving towards a conclusion to me...

 

[Mike Blakesley]

Karen could've also sang "And I'm" in the same space she sang "And" on the recording. "And-i'm fool enough to think...."

Given Richard's perfectionist tendencies, I wouldn't have been surprised if they tried it various ways and just like the way it sounded. John Bettis gives a whole explanation about lyric writing, explaining why he uses certain words or sounds at the beginning of a line, etc. in his Chris May interview.

 

[Simon KC1950]

One song most transformed in both the lyric and meaning is Love Is Surrender. The second verse was completely omitted.

The original Ralph Carmichael:

"Talk about love
how it makes life complete
You can talk all you want
make it sound good and sweet,
But the words have an empty ring,
and they don't really mean a thing,

Chorus:
Without Him love is not to be found;
not to be found.
For love is surrender,
Love is surrender to His will
Love is surrender to His will

Sing about love
and the strength it can give
You can sing how you're ready
to face life and live,
But you know as the days go by
that no matter how hard you try,

Chorus

Shout about love
and the wars will all end
You can shout we're all brothers
and even pretend
But you can't cover up the past
just pretending we'll never last"

- - -

Did anyone else mentally visualise the second verse in Karen's (or Richard's) voice?

 

[Harry]

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

One song most transformed in both the lyric and meaning is Love Is Surrender. The second verse was completely omitted.

The original Ralph Carmichael:

"Talk about love
how it makes life complete
You can talk all you want
make it sound good and sweet,
But the words have an empty ring,
and they don't really mean a thing,

Chorus:
Without Him love is not to be found;
not to be found.
For love is surrender,
Love is surrender to His will
Love is surrender to His will

Sing about love
and the strength it can give
You can sing how you're ready
to face life and live,
But you know as the days go by
that no matter how hard you try,

Chorus

Shout about love
and the wars will all end
You can shout we're all brothers
and even pretend
But you can't cover up the past
just pretending we'll never last"

- - -

Did anyone else mentally visualise the second verse in Karen's (or Richard's) voice?

Richard liked the tune but he didn’t care to do gospel. A&M wouldn’t have gone for it either. As a result, “the words have an empty ring / and they don’t really mean a thing.” Richard basically rewrote the tune and made it fun.

Music is about money anyway so I doubt Ralph balked at the check he got from it.

Ed

 

[3Favorites]

Can't Smile Without You

Carpenters sing

Some people say
the happiness way
is something that's hard to find.
Into the new
leaving the old behind me

(Does that really make any sense to the song as a whole? Does it mean she's finally coming to her senses and giving up on you, you cad! Or?)

Manilow sings

Now some people say
happiness takes so very long to find
Well I'm finding it hard hard
leaving your love behind me

You're the One

The bridge that the Carpenters sing is totally different than the one that Jane Oliver sings. I tried to find the different lyrics online, but the only one that comes up is what the Carpenters sing. I'll have to listen to the Oliver version and try to remember the lines.

I think the Wheel of fortune line in Goodbye to Love is fine. It's symbolism. Everyone knew what it mean. And I think it's a common expression.

Have to agree about the line from I Need to Be in Love. It's a weak line and it sort of spoils things.

 

[NowhereMan]

Richard and Karen's version of "Solitaire" also includes a different chorus from the Neil Sedaka version.

Neil:

And solitaire's the only game in town
And every road that takes him, takes him down
While life goes on around him everywhere
He's playing solitaire (Carpenters move this to the end of the chorus)

And keeping to himself, begins to deal
And still the king of hearts is well concealed
Another losing games comes to an end
And deals them out again (almost totally different lyric)

Carpenters:

And solitaire's the only game in town
And every road that takes him, takes him down
And by himself, it's easy to pretend
He'll never love again
And keeping to himself he plays the game
Without her love it always ends the same
While life goes on around him everywhere
He's playing solitaire

 

[kprather]

Nowhere Man:
"Just sees what he wants to see" became "Sees just what he wants to see"

I can't remember the other example I heard just recently, but it was another case of swapping two words around to make them more grammatical.

 

[newvillefan]

Richard and Karen's version of "Solitaire" also includes a different chorus from the Neil Sedaka version.

I wonder why the lyrics were changed for Karen's version? There's nothing wrong with those used on Neil's version and you could easily replace 'himself' with 'herself' and 'king' with 'queen'. Unless Richard wanted to use vowel sounds that suited Karen better.

 

[Another Son]

And keeping to himself, begins to deal
And still the king of hearts is well concealed
Another losing games comes to an end
And deals them out again is overdoing the card game theme, I think. It’s just too much.

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

And keeping to himself, begins to deal
And still the king of hearts is well concealed
Another losing games comes to an end
And deals them out again is overdoing the card game theme, I think. It’s just too much.

Agreed. Carpenters' lyric is far more effective here. This feels like math to me. This also "meters" better.

Ed

 

[Another Son]

‘California Dreaming’ by Mamas and Papas:-

‘…got down on my knees and pretend to pray’.

Carpenters:-

‘…got down on my knees and began to pray’.

Richard addresses this somewhere, (probably in the liner notes for ‘As Time Goes By’)

Whatever reason Karen changed the lyrics, (I think it’s probably just a common mis-hearing of the Mamas and Papas because I also always thought they sang ‘…began to pray’), she did change the lyrics to a more grammatically correct form, (for those of you by this).

‘…pretend to pray’ was written after certain members of the Mamas and Papas had run into a church just to get out of a freezing cold storm. Just to appease the caretakers of the church, they pretended to pray, so that they wouldn’t get thrown out into the cold again. (I can’t remember where I read that).

Having said that, I just read this:- Michelle Phillips wrote the lyrics, "Well, I got down on my knees, and I pretend to pray," but Cass Elliot had sung "began" on the original recording and had continued doing so on tour until corrected by Phillips.

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

‘California Dreaming’ by Mamas and Papas:-

‘…got down on my knees and pretend to pray’.

Carpenters:-

‘…got down on my knees and began to pray’.

Richard addresses this somewhere, (probably in the liner notes for ‘As Time Goes By’)

Whatever reason Karen changed the lyrics, (I think it’s probably just a common mis-hearing of the Mamas and Papas because I also always thought they sang ‘…began to pray’), she did change the lyrics to a more grammatically correct form, (for those of you by this).

‘…pretend to pray’ was written after certain members of the Mamas and Papas had run into a church just to get out of a freezing cold storm. Just to appease the caretakers of the church, they pretended to pray, so that they wouldn’t get thrown out into the cold again. (I can’t remember where I read that).

Having said that, I just read this:- Michelle Phillips wrote the lyrics, "Well, I got down on my knees, and I pretend to pray," but Cass Elliot had sung "began" on the original recording and had continued doing so on tour until corrected by Phillips.

It changes the meaning of the passage so whatever the reason was, it should have been corrected. With rare exception, I'm not much on changing artistic intent when it comes to lyrical revision. This is such a case and it should have been fixed at the time it was recorded. Yeah, I know it wasn't intended for commercial release this way but someone was clearly intended to hear it and it wouldn't have taken but a minute or two to fix.

Also gotta add that song lyrics aren't poetry and visa versa. Lyrics are not the primary place to worry about grammar. Leave that to term papers and books. Sometimes, something can be grammatically incorrect but it feels right. In song lyrics, that's what matters most.

Ed

 

[Another Son]

Original: "She oughta think twice, she oughta do right by me." Carpenters: "He oughta do right, he oughta do right by me."

Could this have been changed due to the blurred hissing sound you would have got back then from multitracking a word that ends in an elongated ‘ssss’ sound at the end of a phrase? (…’twice’…). At that point in the recording, there are a dozen Karens and a dozen Richards singing at the same time.

 

[Another Son]

It changes the meaning of the passage so whatever the reason was, it should have been corrected. With rare exception, I'm not much on changing artistic intent when it comes to lyrical revision. This is such a case and it should have been fixed at the time it was recorded. Yeah, I know it wasn't intended for commercial release this way but someone was clearly intended to hear it and it wouldn't have taken but a minute or two to fix.

Also gotta add that song lyrics aren't poetry and visa versa. Lyrics are not the primary place to worry about grammar. Leave that to term papers and books. Sometimes, something can be grammatically incorrect but it feels right. In song lyrics, that's what matters most.

Ed

I agree with your comments about both poetic intent and grammar in songs, Ed.

As you’ve suggested, ‘..began to pray..’ probably wasn’t changed because it was just Karen at 17 mucking around in a studio. She probably only ever sang the song through once. Also, her vocal in that section was so angelic and perfect that it would have been a crime to alter it.

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

I agree with your comments about both poetic intent and grammar in songs, Ed.

As you’ve suggested, ‘..began to pray..’ probably wasn’t changed because it was just Karen at 17 mucking around in a studio. She probably only ever sang the song through once. Also, her vocal in that section was so angelic and perfect that it would have been a crime to alter it.

Altering it after the fact would be downright apocryphal, though with AI, it could now be done. Still, it could have been dealt with at the time and that's more or less what I'm dickering over. Not a huge deal or anything but it would have been nice.

Ed

 

[Harry]

I just recently did this same Mamas and Papas research because our community Chorus is singing California Dreaming this Spring. Our sheet music, part of a medley, says "began" but I got everyone to change it to its original intention, "pretend".

 

[Simon KC1950]

I know other examples, Nancy Sinatra's recording from 1970 for example (which was also performed on Ed Sullivan), where "Began" rather than "pretend" is sung.

I've always picked up on this difference and wondered what the reason behind it was... I personally don't think there's any ambiguity in hearing the Mammas and the Pappas recording. It sounds clearly like "pretend".

 

[JohnFB]

...

Also gotta add that song lyrics aren't poetry and visa versa. Lyrics are not the primary place to worry about grammar. Leave that to term papers and books. Sometimes, something can be grammatically incorrect but it feels right. In song lyrics, that's what matters most.

Ed

When many song lyrics are printed separately from the musical notation they very often look like poetry, and sound like poetry, and could reasonably be assumed to be poetry - yes, simple poetry of a specific type, but poetry nevertheless...

It may be the case that most poetry doesn't resemble simple song lyrics, but most lyrics are in fact a basic form of elementary poetry...

As far as Grammer goes I don't mind bad Grammer in song lyrics too much (although some examples are a little strange), but I am slightly "bothered" by its seemingly improper use here in posts, with run-on sentences without punctuation and not using quotes for song titles, etc. - but I have no room to talk with my own overuse of hyphens and ellipses in my posts...(see).

 

[Murray]

I know other examples, Nancy Sinatra's recording from 1970 for example (which was also performed on Ed Sullivan), where "Began" rather than "pretend" is sung.

I've always picked up on this difference and wondered what the reason behind it was... I personally don't think there's any ambiguity in hearing the Mammas and the Pappas recording. It sounds clearly like "pretend".

Possibly for reasons similar to her changing "sleep with you" to "be with you", or "crapped out" to "crashed out". She may not have been comfortable with the original lyric - the idea of "pretending" to pray. Don't forget that Karen was raised in the Methodist church, and at 16 years-old, may still have attended services with her parents. I don't know how old some of you are, but I still remember the reaction people at church had over John Lennon's "Imagine"... "Imagine there's no heaven" - now why would anyone want to do that, other than drugged-out, atheist, commie hippies like John Lennon!

Or... Karen's (and Nancy Sinatra's) copy of the sheet music may have had a typo... as Harry has pointed out, they're out there!

Karen also sang "the preacher digs the cold", instead of "the preacher likes the cold".

 

[Boondoggle]

Does "And When He Smiles" count? My first thought after Superstar though would be California Dreaming