The TJB's Recording of "Never on Sunday"

[Joe]

I was just listening to Greatest Hits a little while ago with my headphones and heard something I had never heard before. I was listening to the TJB's great version of "Never on Sunday", and around the part (at the end) where the beat of the drum is building up, I heard somebody say something. It sounded like a guy said "Ah!". Maybe I'm just hearing things?

Joe, hopes he's not losing his mind at this early stage of life...

 

[DAN BOLTON]

Hey, Joe...I just listened to the song on my hard drive...and didn't hear what you mentioned...but I think I have in the past. It could be some tape noise, like a "drop-in", or a splice, or maybe somebody breathed too close to a mike, or maybe it's there on purpose. Sometimes the artist or producer will accept a take that's less than perfect if it sounds better than one that is...and mastering is a lot easier and cleaner these days than it was in '62...you don't have to splice tape or put up with hiss...

I don't think you're losing your mind, unless Kenny G. is starting to sound good to you...


Dan

 

[Joe]

I don't think you're losing your mind, unless Kenny G. is starting to sound good to you...

Please, no Kenny G., hack, cough, wheeze, etc.

Thanks Dan. I noticed you mentioned it might have been a dropout, I'm not big on sound quality, I just like a recording without hiss, pop, or distortion; but I've been trying to figure out what the heck a dropout was. I've read comments about how "Tijuana Taxi" is full of those, and even though I'm lost on dropouts, I certainly agree that recording has seen better days.

Joe, who says if you like a distorted record... listen to Ray Conniff's Jean album one of these days

 

[DAN BOLTON]

I don't think you're losing your mind, unless Kenny G. is starting to sound good to you...

Please, no Kenny G., hack, cough, wheeze, etc.

Thanks Dan. I noticed you mentioned it might have been a dropout, I'm not big on sound quality, I just like a recording without hiss, pop, or distortion; but I've been trying to figure out what the heck a dropout was. I've read comments about how "Tijuana Taxi" is full of those, and even though I'm lost on dropouts, I certainly agree that recording has seen better days.

Joe, who says if you like a distorted record... listen to Ray Conniff's Jean album one of these days

A drop-in is like a splice or an overdub...it's added to the basic track. It can be spliced into the track, and that's what you hear, where the tape was spliced...sometimes the noise can't be completely eliminated. sometimes it might be able to be masked, but not always.

A notable drop-in shows up during the slow part of ZORBA THE GREEK, between the solo and harmonizing trumpet parts.


Dan

 

[Harry]

Drop-outs are what happens when the physical tape media is damaged in some way. It could be older tape that's falling apart - literally, the magnetic oxide coating is flaking away from the mylar backing. They can also occur electronically if a connection is shorted out, perhaps a fader on the mixing board was dirty - in any case, it's a short loss of sound in a recording.

The "Tijuana Taxi" from Definitive Hits is a good example to listen to. Toward the end, just as the band is finishing up, before the final horn honk, if you listen with headphones, you'll hear one channel almost totally disappear, as if the tape were chewed up like a cassette tape that got mangled in the player.

There are dropout examples all throughout the Tijuana Brass catalog - "Spanish Flea", "Our Day Will Come", "Monday Monday" - all have some serious dropout problems. It's my fervant hope that the real original recordings are not in this sad shape and that perhaps new mixdown masters can be made.

Harry
...dropping in to this discussion, online...

 

[Joe]

Ah yes, I just listened to "Tijuana Taxi" (from Definitive Hits, that is) and noticed how a channel did seem to disappear. Thanks Dan and Harry for your input!

Joe, who'd like to hear some good sounding TJB soon...

 

[Rudy]

Drop-outs are what happens when the physical tape media is damaged in some way. It could be older tape that's falling apart - literally, the magnetic oxide coating is flaking away from the mylar backing.

While the 60's were a little too early for this formulation, the pro-grade Ampex 456 has a major problem with this. It's not just dropouts though--we're talking of the oxide coming off steadily with each playback. So much that my playback head was completely clogged within 15 minutes of playing one back.

I have noticed on the recent Brasil '66 CDs (both US and Japan) that there are a disturbing number of dropouts. Is A&M STILL not going back to originals, or were the tapes that poorly stored or cared for?

I say dump all the analog stuff into DSD and preserve it that way...and I hope that whenever we see TJB on disc again, it's on a hybrid SACD. Recent CDs sound so bad that I'm reluctant to buy any of them. (Especially after I heard Steve Hoffman say that Universal was working on some TJBs and they were "compression city"....looks like needle drops are still the best fidelity IMHO.)

 

[Tom]

Joe,

Thank goodness someone else has heard what I've heard for years from the original vinyl album to tapes and c-d's. I swear it's what you've heard. Perhaps someone breathing a sigh to accentuate the feeling or close of the song. While I'm at it I will say that this is one of the prettiest, finest, and simplest songs Herb has ever recorded. I learned to play trumpet by tracking this song and playing along with it. Also, Bud Coleman (I believe it's him) is wonderful on mandolin. Do yourself a big favor and listen to him solely on the right channel. Turn down the left channel

 

[Joe]

(Especially after I heard Steve Hoffman say that Universal was working on some TJBs and they were "compression city"....looks like needle drops are still the best fidelity IMHO.)

Well from what I've just read, I guess I can deduce that compression is not a good thing.

About a couple of month's ago, I bought a Rhino CD called Aretha's Best, which has essential hits by Aretha Franklin. Then came "The House That Jack Built", and wow did those horns, saxes, whatever they were, sound terrible! And I've heard that song in the past with better sound quality. They sounded very scratchy, is that something caused by compression? If not, exactly what can compression do to a recording?

Joe

 

[Tom]

One more thing, while I said I thought the sound at the end of the song is a person, anything is possible. I wish I had the absolute correct answer but I don't. The only reason this stood out to begin with is that the sound is so pronounced. I suppose it could be caused by compression but I can't believe Larry Levine would leave in that kind of mistake in. I've learned through these years though that anything can and is possible. Sometimes some of us, yours truly included, can over think or exaggerate things.

Tom

 

[Mr Bill]

I love listening for that stuff. During the break in "Darlin'" (off Summertime) you can hear not only Herb whispering the count but what soulds like Bob Edmondson slidding his trombone to the position for the next note.

And on "Coney Island" (from the LP of the same name) you can hear drummer Steve Schaeffer grunt during the drum intro. Very pronounced.

--Mr Bill

 

[Captain Bacardi]

And on "Coney Island" (from the LP of the same name) you can hear drummer Steve Schaeffer grunt during the drum intro. Very pronounced.

And there's a couple of "Hep Hep" (or something like that) at the end of "Sweet Georgia Brown" from the same album.


Capt. Bacardi
...hitting my 800th post online...