The unreleased late 1983 album.

[ullalume]

Hey there,

Just come across this site, so thought I'd post a few thoughts.

Maybe it's just me, or perhaps the human condition itself, or maybe it's because I was only 5 in 1983, but I attach more significance to the later recordings. It may be rose-tinted specs and bias, but Made In America is one of my favourite albums, and to me, the album they were working on could well have been their most commercial and creative success since HORIZON.

First off, we've got NOW, YOU'RE BABY..., AT THE END... and YOU'RE ENOUGH. I love 'em all, but they're not really single material. However, a few weeks after Karen died, they had booked an A&M recording studio, and if I'm not mistaken, Richard and John Bettis had written IN LOVE ALONE and I'M STILL NOT OVER YOU during her time in New York.

To me these two songs are, respectively, reminiscent of HURTING EACH OTHER and GOODBYE TO LOVE. I feel the first would have gone top 5, and the latter top 10. Disco was dead by '83 and real music could come back (don't get me wrong I love a good disco tune.)

So there's 6 great tracks, 2 of them possible hit singles, and that's only half of what they'd have done. A few weeks later they'd have laid god knows how many more. They might even have included KISS ME THE WAY... which could easily have got chart action.


There's not really a point to all this, just to pour out some thoughts I suppose. Biased though I am, I never felt there was any dip in the overall creative output of the Carpenters ( with the exception of A KIND OF HUSH album). Maybe not so much strong single potential, but art wise, the material never waned........What a loss that we didn't get that final Autumn '83 album, her vocals richer and more mature than ever, and his arranging and production more sosphisticated.

Let me know your thoughts, guys.

 

[andywithaz]

Ya'll will probably kill me for saying this but I have always wondered if Richard could find a person with a real similar voice to Karen's and record new songs or even go back and re-record old ones. If he found that special person then he could complete the songs that were listed above and maybe hit the charts. It wouldn't be Karen but it would be close.

please don't hesitate to state your feelings

 

[Chris]

One thing that strikes me by reading the two posts above, is just how much we all still miss Karen. Earlier while listening to the radio in the car I heard "Merry Christmas Darling", and although it warmed my heart and made me smile, I could not help but whisper, "We miss you, Karen".

As Andrew said, he'd be willing to listen to someone with a similar voice sing the songs that Karen did not get to sing. Of course no one could replace Karen, but that goes to show just how much we still yearn for more. I'm sure many of you can't help but hear a certain song and think how well it would have suited Karen.

Especially at this time of year, I wish she was still around. No one could sing a Christmas song the way Karen did. Can you imagine what the other Carpenters Christmas releases would have been like? Sigh. There are so many gorgeous Christmas songs both old and new that she would have been magnificent on.

I too love the later performances, ullalume - not more than the early years, but just as much. She did develop a different sort of sophistication in her later years. It's fascinating to think of where she would have gone with her style. I bet she would have gotten better and better.

 

[cam89]

Hi All,
I so agree with your thoughts. I think all the time, that this song would be perfect for Karen to sing. Or I try to imagine what she would be doing nowadays, besides raising her family.
VOICE OF THE HEART has always been one of my fave albums, because of the sophisticated stylings she sang with. I think a lot of those songs were amazing. I love upbeat songs, but I especially love those slower introspective ballads that she excelled at. It would be neat to imagine all the songs she could sing today. I mean, everyone raves about Norah Jones, Alicia Keys, Jewel, Diana Krall et al...and they are great...but Karen was such a master at those types of tunes that they do...she could have sung ANYTHING!
Also Christmas songs...whenever I hear one of Karen singing on the radio, or shopping at the mall, I get chills and I feel such warmth for a brief time. She was such a gift to us.
I wish that Richard would do same songs with another female singer...but maybe a lot of female singers would feel intimidated in Karen's shadow...but it would be neat to hear a similar song sung by a different female singer, and see if RC could have a good career doing that. I know that he is terribly gifted as an arranger/producer etc.

My thoughts,
Cameron
www.carponline.bravepages.com ----> we also have some Carpenters poll on fave Carpenters albums and why for anyone interested...

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

Made in America was suppose to be there comeback album. But I don't think that album did very well commerically right? Some of the singles didn't reach the peak as I recall. If anyone loves there later recordings it's me. I too have a closer connection to there later recording than the very early first albums.

However with the final comeback album, I think they were showing signs wear. There music wasn't being played on the radio as much as it was & the songs they were playing were the old stuff.

It's always been hard for me to understand that Karen recorded her solo album before MIA. For some reason I always have to catch myself & say that Karen decided to shelf the solo & go ahead with another Carpenters album.

I also sometimes ask myself whether Karen gave her 110% to MIA, having come off the heels of getting burned from the solo album & then she went right into MIA. In the back of her mind she must have never forgot about her solo album & how much it meant to her as the Coleman book says before she died she talked to Phil about how proud she was of that work (the solo sessions)

Yes this is all after the fact but with all this said, I do agree there are some tracks on MIA that I really really love, such as When It's Gone-Karen is so smooth & velvety that it gives me goosebumps when I hear that track. Because we are in Love was mentioned in a radio interview that karen said was her favorite track off MIA (from the Brazil 1982 interview) I just love the begining of that track.

But I agree too that I long to hear Karen sing new material & I still miss her.

 

[coolvox]

Speaking of what might have been,
the akiko album even though a
little erie really made me miss
Karen. I listened to both versions
with and without Richard. She is
a fantastic vocalist but when I
listen to ONLY THE ANGELS KNOW
I really wish it was Karen!
As much as I love Karens voice
and Richards arrangements, I just
dont feel they were destined for
top 40. However they could have
lasted forever in the Jazz contem-
porary charts. So Sophisticated!!!

JIM

 

[Chris]

I couldn't agree more, Jim. Karen would have been so amazing on a lot of the contemporary Jazz songs.

The Akiko album made me miss Karen all the more as well. Along with "Only the Angels Know", I'd love to have heard her do that last track, "The Reply". It was so tailor made for her.

I think had Karen recorded "Something In Your Eyes" it would have charted really well. When I hear that line "when I see you framed in sunlight and a sky of blue, I know what my life is leading to...." it always gets to me. Karen would have been so incredible on this one.

 

[alpertfan]

Here's my take...
Not a Carpenters fan, but I have seen the documentaries about them on VH-1 and E! Seems as if RC is not over his sister's death, and I'm sorry, but I don't think the public is helpful where that's concerned. He probably wants to put the past behind him and perhaps thinks, "What we did was great, wish there was more, but..." However, people still want previously unreleased recordings to surface in the stores, which means that he has to listen to all the old studio tapes again and hear her voice, which must be painful, and then create yet another compilation. Yes, it makes him and the record label money, but I get the feeling that he really doesn't want to do it. Music is great. Being a toddler of the Eighties, there's a lot of music I treasure, but everything has it's time. In the case of Karen Carpenter, (it's always tricky to talk about things like this), it was a matter of personal choice. No one forces the alcoholic to take so many shots of whiskey a day that by nightfall, they're seeing three of themselves in the mirror, and no one jams the needle into the heroin user's arm.

Sorry for getting so heavy and philosophical, just my little take on the matter.

 

[andywithaz]

I respect your opinnion but I disagree. I feel that Richard actually likes to go back to the studio and create new releases. I'm sure that he doesn't like to be reminded of Karen's death but I think that he feels a warmth and happiness to know that fans still want more. I think that fans' interests actually make him feel good about Karen instead of remembering her dying. I hope he continues to release unreleased material.

I also think that Richard should consider a music career again.

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

I agree with Andrew on this one. I don't think the fans are forcing Richard to do anything. Yes the fans begged him to release The Rainbow Connection (against Karen's wishes) but i'm glad he did, what a fine performance that one is. WOW.

He can do whatever he wishes. I'm sure it does hurt when he goes back over old tapes & recording but unless you have lost someone you love (you don't know how he feels really, the feeling is not only sadness but also happiness & warmth & closeness which are all good things. I don't think Richard is wanting to put the past behind him & totally forget about the carpenters works, I'm glad he chooses to enhance what is already there for the fans.

When you think about all he has done for the fans since Karen's death, it really is remarkable what he can do & how well the finished product comes out.

I also think that he doesn't rush to put old stuff out because he is a perfectionist when it comes to his music & he probably feels that yeah there is alot more stuff in the vaults but what is left is not up to his standards or he feels is just not release-able.

 

[mr J.]

Chris-I'm almost laughing at your comment "Richard doesn't rush to put the old stuff out".Actually,Richard did "rush" out all the material that was worthy of release.(starting 8 months after Karen's death with "Voice Of The Heart").But,here we are 20 years later,and we have to face the grim reality that there will be no more Carpenters albums.If it hasn't come out by now,it never will.Richard designated LOVELINES as the final album,and,14 years later,it still stands as the final album.There are no more tracks that Richard feels are worthy of release-he's stated this several times.I think there are some misguided fans here that are desperately wishing for something that's never going to happen!There's a possibility of a few tracks surfacing on future compilations(possibly something that was held up due to legal negotiations-like the "Karen/Ella "medley,etc.)But,other than that,it's a dead horse!

 

[Murray]

Richard designated LOVELINES as the final album,and,14 years later,it still stands as the final album.

LOVELINES may have been the last "original" album to get worldwide release, but AS TIME GOES BY qualifies as the "final album" of original material!

Still, I see Mr J's point. I doubt that there is enough Karen-vocal material for another album. Richard even had to use instrumental tracks from the TV specials to fill out the space on ATGB.

What Richard does have is a lot of live recordings (he recorded many of their concerts for personal use). He could put out a live album, but would the general public be interested in buying it? Sadly, I don't think so...

Murray
...who'd love to have the original mix of "Santa Claus is Comin' to Town" on CD, as well as the alternate versions of "Close To You"...

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

I guess I just look at things differently, I never considered Lovelines the final album. Look at all Richard has done since then. ATGB was mostly previous material but there were some new stuff to us that we had never heard, so I consider that there final album. If he doesn't come up with another one.

Heck I never even expected Richard to come up with ATGB & there he did. So did he rush to get that one out? Heck no, how long has Karen been gone & we got ATGB?

I also don't think that 8 months is rushing to get VOTH out, Richard was use to working & having Karen there with him, then he gets blown away by her death, what was he suppose to do, sit around & do nothing for 2 years mourning her or do what he enjoys the most & go back in to the recording studio & put together VOTH in her memory. Obviously he chose the later.

To be honest I'm actually content with what Richard has done since Karen's death. I'm not looking for new stuff from Richard every year. Like Murray said though, I would like at least 1 more live CD. I have 2 Live Cd's Live at the Pladdium & Live in Japan. Seems kinda weak for a pop duo that had a long career, there must be more live material to work with.

 

[Mike4TheCarps]

Hey everyone. I am a member of Leadsister.com and i come here to read the posts But for this subject i had to join. Lemme cut and paste what i had typed in leadsister and tell me what you all think..

I was reading the posts on A&M corner and people are very doubtful there is enough material for another album. Now the question is.. will we ever hear it?? Just look at all the songs on the rarities bootleg CD. and plus Richard could release a couple tracks from Karens unreleased solo recordings. a few of those are really good! and plus there are tracks from the early days. and Tracks that are in Richards personal collection that we may never heard of. ANd I BELIEVE there are like 3 more COMPLETE songs from Made in America sessions. I know this cause i was reading god knows where about how much they recorded in 80-81 and there were 5 complete tracks. 2 have been released on Love Lines. And plus Richard made comments on that Play a simple melody he may release. Try and win a friend is releasable, The Moon is a harsh Mistress I believe is a made in america out take and thats a complete song. Theres gotta be enough material for one more album, But I am getting a little doubtful when and if we ever will hear it

Michael

Heres a follow up to what i have to say that is quite insightful

Also, This thought just came across me. A lot of Carpenters fans think the reason why we have the telivision show tracks is because there is nothing else in the vaults.. well I think since Richard knows there isnt a a legal release of their TV specials that Richard would at least release them on CD. And perhaps he wanted an album of mostly complete tracks anyways so it would be easier?? and he didnt have to do so much arranging and filling in the music? he wanted the album to have a feel with their TV specials I guess. anyone agree? Now i wish Richard didnt release so many songs from their TV specials but he did.. Just a thought of why we have mediocre material on As Time goes By and the possibilty of better in the vaults?


Thanks everyone for the time reading!

Michael

P.S. IM glad to now be a member of A&M corner! see ya guys

 

[Mark-T]

I always thought there were alot of extra tracks recorded for "A Kind of Hush" as well- unless I misunderstood something. If they are even remotely as good as "Ordinary Fool"- BRING THEM ON!!!

Mark

 

[mr J.]

Actually,there's almost an album's worth of extra tracks from A KIND OF HUSH,as well as several outtakes from PASSAGE and MADE IN AMERICA.But,according to Richard,these are not up to standard.I've known about "The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress" for a while.I don't know why Richard is holding back that one,it's a pretty decent song.(Linda Ronstadt recorded "Mistress" on her 1982 "Get Closer" album).

 

[Murray]

I've known about "The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress" for a while.I don't know why Richard is holding back that one,it's a pretty decent song.

Maybe he's saving it for the 50th Anniversary boxset?

Murray
...to be available only in Japan, naturally...

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

Murray, I'm laughing and crying at the same time. 50th? oh man.

 

[PJ]

Maybe 50th Anniversary will yield more goodies ....!

There are plenty of Carpenters unissued / vault recordings that COULD be released ....however this depends on Richard's intentions and obviously Universal or any future music companies support and promotion

Recall back in the 1990's , many fans after From The Top box set insisted NO MORE UNISSUED MATERIAL DUE ....Richard on a UK promotional visit listened to several fans requests and stated firmly ....more will be released eventually ....as it was with Karen Carpenter / As Tme Goes By albums and DVD releases

As Time Goes By -although mainly studio recordings -was intended as a rarities set to include various tracks , instrumentals , medleys etc and that is how it plays ....a wonderful release of different styles , vocals and songs

Peter