TJB reissues

[bob knack]

It seems to me that since most of the market wasn't born when these originally came out, potential customers will look and say there's not enough bang for the buck.

These kids never saw an LP. For this project to be truly successful, they will have to provide more. If Herb just wants to sell a few to the rest of us hardcore fans, he's not going to make any money.

I'm not sure I understand the opposition to the two-fer idea. Did anyone of you ever buy a double LP or a greatest hits? Same complaint, no?

By our own admission, it's the rarities we hanker for. The originals won't sell as fast, if much at all.

Herb's got to interest the younger market, which I hope he does.

I'd like to see them all chart again.

 

[thetijuanataxi]

The problem with two-fers IMHO is that both albums lose their individuality. There is the dilemma that the art work has to be compromised. The flow of the music changes. When I want to listen to "GOING PLACES", for instance, I want it to start off with "Tijuana Taxi", not "A Taste Of Honey". When I want to listen to "WHIPPED CREAM", I expect it to end with "Lollipops And Roses", not "Zorba The Greek". I am not wealthy by any means, but I AM willing to spend the money to have each CD as faithful to the original LP as possible. Two-fers are not much different from GREATEST HITS compilations, as far as I'm concerned. The Beatles, Sinatra, Elvis, Streisand etc. all have their individual albums available. Herb is certainly a major enough artist to have the same thing. His CDs will sell. Maybe not in leaps and bounds at this point, burt certainly with consistancy as long as fans know they're available. Marketing and promotion will be everything as far as sales are concerned for the new reissues. Destroying their uniqueness is not the answer.

David,
saying keep it faithful to the originals.......

 

[Mike Blakesley]

most of the market wasn't born when these originally came out,

This is quite the silly statement. What, do you think all the original TJB fans are dead now? And, do you think nobody over 40 buys CDs? People over 40 have been yelling for years that there's not enough good music to buy. To be able to walk into a store and see all of Herb's original albums for sale would be a breath of fresh air to many people.

The trick is NOT to "reach out to the youth," because 99% of them will think instrumental music from the '60s is lame. The trick is to let the millions of over-40s out there know that the music is available! All the while keeping in mind that a huge number of those people are NOT connected to the internet, and haven't set foot in a music store in years because they're discouraged about what they find (or don't find) there. In short, marketing is key.

 

[bob knack]

Thanks. I'm universally known for making silly statements.

No, people over 40 don't buy as many CD's. Neither do those over 50 and 60, which, like it or not, is the TJB's core demographic. Otherwise, we'd have a wide choice of MOR radio stations out there with completely sold out commercial inventory.

Why did Herb spent the last three decades exploring music that appeals to younger audiences? North on South Street was not aimed at his original audience.

Record labels are offering bonus and previously unissued tracks because that's what helps old stuff sell.

I wish it was still the 1960's, but it ain't. All the people who bought TJB material are not dead, but the sad fact is, many of them are.

 

[Mike Blakesley]

Why did Herb spent the last three decades exploring music that appeals to younger audiences?

I don't think Herb has ever attempted to appeal to a specific audience -- except maybe in the "Diamonds" era, which was a real jump onto the R&B/Janet Jackson/Jam & Lewis bandwagon -- but rather has folowed his own "muse." (At least, that's what almost all musicians SAY they do!)

As for the bonus tracks you mention -- most of that kind of stuff appears on albums that have already been out on CD for years, have "petered out" sales wise and are in need of a jump-start. The recent Fleetwood Mac reissues come to mind.

On the other hand, half of the TJB catalog has NEVER been out on CD as you know, and even when part of it WAS out, the timing was wrong. Many of the people who like the TJB are not the early-adopter, gadget-freak people who were rushing out to buy all their favorite music on CD. In other words, Herb missed the boat back then.

But now, many of those same people are probably driving their first car with a built-in CD player, and have recently installed a DVD in their house -- which will also play CDs. My parents fit both of those categories. This is the crowd that will buy the most TJB CDs.....IF they know they're out there.

Look at the sales generated by people like Rod Stewart and Jimmy Buffett lately. If that doesn't prove the older folks will buy music if they can find it, nothing does.

Lord knows, I wish the young crowd would embrace the TJB music and put Herb back on the charts -- but I have been in the music biz long enough to know that it AIN'T gonna happen on a large scale.

 

[bob knack]

Buffett is a special case. He just keeps on rolling. Stewart recently has taken The Great American Songbook and ran it through the shredder.

But this may prove my point. Stewart must have picked up some new business by going back to the future.

My point simply is, maybe Herb can pick up some young people to replace some of those who aren't still around. Face it. Half the TJB is deceased. Half the Beatles.

Wrigley Field still sells out every year, not to people who remember Charlie Grimm or Ernie Banks. They replenished the fan base by doing things differently for the new generation.

I think that's what solo Herb was about. You can follow your muse all you want, but if it doesn't sell, the muse will have holes in his socks. Herb made his sound more youthful. And quite a bit of it scored.

Whatever it turns out to be, I hope it works out. I'll be buying most of it.

 

[Mike Blakesley]

Same here, which is the important thing. (I'm even going to buy Lonely Bull, an album I don't particularly like!)

 

[Captaindave]

I have been reading with interest the above posts about the marketing of reissues.

I tend to think that the audience for TJB reissues is the group of people who would buy or be interested in any kind of oldies music, and particularly sixties oldies music. People who may have had some, or all, of the vinyl albums in years gone by and perhaps no longer have them, or if they do, they are in bad condition, or they no longer have a turntable to play them on, or they want CDs instead, or they would enjoy hearing the TJB again as they did many years ago, etc...

I agree that at times it seems that Herb Alpert has tended to look where musical trends and tastes were going, and see if he could ride along...thus some of the hip-hop, urban oriented sounds of some of his solo works.

I agree that Herb Alpert reissues would be, as mentioned above, a "breath of fresh air" for many of us more jaded music fans in the age group that have always been TJB fans since the beginning. Reaching out to the younger crowd will fall on its face - they are listening to Britney Spears, rap, etc. They would think that sixties instrumentals would be definitely not cool. That is not where the success of this project would lie. Yeah, many have died, but the baby boomer generation that forms the basis of the TJB fan club, so to speak, is the largest population group in history. Otherwise, there would probably be a lot less concern about Social Security...

If the reissues are properly and aggressively marketed, I think it can be successful. As successful as was the case originally back in the sixties? No. But successful enough to justify the effort? Yes, if there is a good strategy behind it. Nostalgia can sell, and that is where the market lies, IMO.

 

[TonyCurrie]

Wild horses will not stop me.

Tony

(Counting the days........)

 

[bob knack]

What would you guys do to market/promote these Cd's to increase sales?

 

[Steve Sidoruk]

As a former marketing major and 40 year Herb Alpert fan, here's my two cents. As has been already said, you have to know your market. That is, who is going to want the product right out of the gate. To make the big hit, the challenge is how to expand that market and sell to those who didn't initially know that they wanted it. That could well be covered by what Randy Alpert is trying to do with the "dance mix" of three TJB tunes. This could be a good way to hit new, young fans.

There was a plan years ago that Herb's manager, Kip Cohen told me about. Herb would donate an airing of his TV specials to PBS. This could potentially hit a huge audience and generate interest in Tijuana Brass music once again. After all, Herb's TV specials were originaly done as hour-long "music videos" to promote a newly released album or even back catalog.

TV and print advertising aimed at specific demographic groups is pretty easy today, with all the niche cable channels and magazines out there. I imagine that the plan could be somewhat similar overseas, as Herb has a huge fan base across the globe. It seems to me that Herb's fan base is so big, that "if you build it, they will come."

 

[bob knack]

I like the cut of your jib.

Also, this idea of bonus tracks...if you want air-play, where do you go? Music of Your Life etc. still has some TJB on the playlist, so you have to give them something new to let that buying public know that there is a new CD.

The PBS idea is grand. I think to help it fly we need some new footage. Interviews/insights with band members and so on. And some old unseen footage. Much like they used to do on PBS with Glenn Miller specials. If it's a pledge week...now you can offer a copy of the CD or the Video for a membership at the station.

 

[Rudy]

XM Radio should be an outlet, too. Heck, get Herb to do a two-hour broadcast, feature a few hits, but promote the "Lost Treasures" disc and the first two remasters. A lot of artists are doing that now when they have new releases coming out, and at least the "Lost Treasures" can qualify as a new release, since it contains music we haven't heard before!

 

[Mike Blakesley]

XM would be great. They just featured the new Elton John album last night, played in its entirety with EJ giving a commentary between each track. Herb could do the same with the Lost Treasures. Interesting stories would abound!

 

[Captaindave]

Maybe Sirius radio as well?

 

[Mike Blakesley]

If he's on ANY satellite radio, it would be one or the other -- the two are so fiercely competetive that there's no way they'd BOTH make a deal for the same guy!

Herb would be much better off on XM since they have at least 5X as many subscribers as Sirius.

 

[Plucky87]

I'm one of the few from the younger generation (born 1987) to find a liking for Herb Alpert, first discovering spanish flea on a mix cd of my mom's back in 2000 and I've been hooked ever since. I think if the dance mixes were put on there own cd along with some remakes of songs from the 80s, 90s and current music done in the old tijuana style might draw some attention.There are alot of people from the last 20 years that have had good songs for Herb to remake....in addition maybe even 1 or 2 new original tijuana brass cuts would be nice. I think having some current music done in tijuana brass would bring curiousity to new fans.

 

[bob knack]

As Albert Brooks said to Gary Marshall in "Lost in America", "That's it, that's the campaign! I have the chills."

 

[DAN BOLTON]

If he's on ANY satellite radio, it would be one or the other -- the two are so fiercely competetive that there's no way they'd BOTH make a deal for the same guy!

Herb would be much better off on XM since they have at least 5X as many subscribers as Sirius.

But you can get Sirius through the Dish Network...THAT ups the number of people who listen to it a bunch.



Dan

 

[TonyCurrie]

Yesterday I finally gave in and bought a copy of "Definitive Hits", complete with much sleeve puff about how it was remastered.

As has been often remarked on this site, the remastering leaves rather a lot to be desired. The pseudo-mono version of "Mexican Shuffle" should never have seen the light of day; the dropout in "Spanish Flea" and an extraordinary amount of hiss and what sounds like studio noise.

This leaves me wondering about the new remastering efforts. Of course I shall buy copies of everything, and naturally I'm looking forward to the releases immensely. But now that I've had a chance to hear "Definitive Hits" for myself, I'm left slightly concerned about the quality of the new releases.

As an aside, I'm not sure what kind of listener "Definitive Hits" was aimed at - I can't listen all the way through because as a self-contained album, the style change towards the end is just too much to bear!

 

[Rudy]

The remastering itself isn't too bad on "Definitive Hits", but whatever tape copies they used, they may not have been the best. (Universal, or more specifically Doug Sax, used what was given to him.) With any luck, whatever tapes were in their posession for these remasters are the best available.

 

[Steve Sidoruk]

You also have to remember that Definitive Hits was Herb's final release for Universal, which was tied to the settlement of Herb & Jerry's lawsuit. Despite Herb's usual demand for quality to the nth degree, maybe sub-consciously there was an ambivalence?

 

[TonyCurrie]

Indeed, Steve, that thought had occurred to me. As Rudy says the remastering isn't TOO bad, but it could have been much better.

 

[Jay Maynes/Juan Oskar]

RE: PBS

A Herb Alpert Special on PBS might be a great way of restarting the TJB. Look what PBS did for Yanni. By the way I went to a Yanni concert here in Phoenix at the Glendale Arena and I'd have to say it's one of the best concerts I've been to in a long time. Listen to some of the clips of the drummer on the drummer's website. www.charlieadams.com/ Later...........Jay

 

[Harry]

Indeed, Steve, that thought had occurred to me. As Rudy says the remastering isn't TOO bad, but it could have been much better.

At best it's 'uneven'. Some of the tracks on there sound terrific, while others have problems. And of course the problems all occur with the earlier tracks.

Hopefully, Universal was working with backup masters that it had in house, while Herb had the 'real' stuff tucked away somewhere, and it'll be THOSE that surface with the new releases. Keep your fingers crossed!

Harry
...TGIF, online...