*** Unreleased(?) tracks by (the) Carpenters ***

S

STEVE@ENGLAND

Member
Query:

According to the A.S.C.A.P (American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers) data-base, (the)
Carpenters have various entries; however, what particularly interested me was the tracks (listed below)
that neither appear on any Carpenters' album nor, from what I can gather, have appeared on the Mook
('Unreleased Tracks') list.

(i) Eleanor Rigby;
(ii) Here comes that Rainy Day feeling Again;
(iii) I'm in the Mood for Love;
(iv) Leaving on a Jet Plane;
(v) Muskrat Love;
(vi) Secret Love;
(vii) Sing, Sing, Sing ;

When I saw this entry, I thought they meant Sing (from the album Now & Then);
however, it appears to be the track performed by Benny Goodman & his Orchestra.

(viii) Talk it over in the Morning.

Can anyone shed any light? (What happened to these tracks?)

I think we may have to get Chris May involved on this one.

Some of the entries listed (on the A.S.C.A.P data-base) refer to songs performed
on (the) Carpenters' TV specials.

Apologies for going over old ground - if this topic's been done before - as I haven't
yet bought a copy of 'The Musical Legacy' book - which may (or may not) deal
with such matters.
 
STEVE@ENGLAND said:
Query:

According to the A.S.C.A.P (American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers) data-base, (the)
Carpenters have various entries; however, what particularly interested me was the tracks (listed below)
that neither appear on any Carpenters' album nor, from what I can gather, have appeared on the Mook
('Unreleased Tracks') list.

(i) Eleanor Rigby;
(ii) Here comes that Rainy Day feeling Again;
(iii) I'm in the Mood for Love;
(iv) Leaving on a Jet Plane;
(v) Muskrat Love;
(vi) Secret Love;
(vii) Sing, Sing, Sing ;

When I saw this entry, I thought they meant Sing (from the album Now & Then);
however, it appears to be the track performed by Benny Goodman & his Orchestra.

(viii) Talk it over in the Morning.

Can anyone shed any light? (What happened to these tracks?)

I think we may have to get Chris May involved on this one.

Some of the entries listed (on the A.S.C.A.P data-base) refer to songs performed
on (the) Carpenters' TV specials.

Apologies for going over old ground - if this topic's been done before - as I haven't
yet bought a copy of 'The Musical Legacy' book - which may (or may not) deal
with such matters.
Click to expand...
None of these were ever tracked. It's possible, however, that an assistant requested permission for use on these—which most likely would have been at the request of Richard—in the event they were considered. This kind of thing is pretty common.
 
Chris May said:
None of these were ever tracked. It's possible, however, that an assistant requested permission for use on these—which most likely would have been at the request of Richard—in the event they were considered. This kind of thing is pretty common.
Click to expand...
Thanks, Chris ... It now makes sense (Maybe Richard had requested permission
to use the said tracks - but then changed his mind.)
Assuming that no-one else (apart from Richard) could shed any further light on
the matter, I think it's pretty safe to close down this thread.:) Thanks.
 
Last edited:
STEVE@ENGLAND said:
Thanks, Chris ... It now makes sense (Maybe Richard had requested permission
to use the said tracks - but then changed his mind.)
Assuming that no-one else (apart from Richard) could shed any further light on
the matter, I think it's pretty safe to close down this thread.:) Thanks.
Click to expand...
To further clarify, this looks like a list of songs in which permission was granted to record (as the Carpenters) by the publisher. Sorry ... wasn't sure if my first explanation was clear. :)
 
Mike Blakesley said:
I have no idea of these but I'd bet Richard took a look at the Muskrat Love lyrics and said, "No. Just no. No, no, no. No."

I do not understand how that song ever got to be popular enough to where it's now considered a classic.
Click to expand...
One of my favorite America songs. They also had a rabbit song, Watership Down. And of course, that horse song, but I can't remember the name. Green Monkey. The Last Unicorn. Mad Dog. They liked animal songs.
 
newvillefan said:
I listened to it a few months back for the first time, intrigued by the title. It’s hideous.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure when the idea of recording Muskat Love was mooted, but I only
hope Richard wasn't seriously considering it for inclusion on a proposed
'comeback' album (in '83).

According to the A.S.C.A.P data-base, there's an entry for Leaving on a
Jet Plane.

My guess is that Richard entertained the idea of Karen & John Denver
performing this song as a duet - on (the) Carpenter's 'Very First TV Special'
(1976).
 
newvillefan said:
I listened to it a few months back for the first time, intrigued by the title. It’s hideous.
Click to expand...

There are two good versions, America's, from three years before Captain and Tenille, which stalled at #67 on the charts:





and Lani Hall's re-working of it as "Sun Down"---which takes the muskrats out of the equation and was actually released the year before America's version:





I always pictured Lani, four years after her version, seeing Captain and Tenille (on HER label, no less) hitting number one with theirs, looking at Herb and saying "Really?"
 
Another thing to consider here is that some of these requests may very well have been related to potential television specials. If they were thinking of covering (or asked to cover) certain songs that were popular at the time, they would have gone in and done pre-records on everything.

In other words, a song consideration doesn’t have to be for an album per se.
 
Michael Hagerty said:
There are two good versions, America's, from three years before Captain and Tenille, which stalled at #67 on the charts:





and Lani Hall's re-working of it as "Sun Down"---which takes the muskrats out of the equation and was actually released the year before America's version:





I always pictured Lani, four years after her version, seeing Captain and Tenille (on HER label, no less) hitting number one with theirs, looking at Herb and saying "Really?"
Click to expand...

Too back it couldn't be Lani's voice and lyrics over America's arrangement, production and background vocals.
 
Michael Hagerty said:
There are two good versions, America's, from three years before Captain and Tenille, which stalled at #67 on the charts:





and Lani Hall's re-working of it as "Sun Down"---which takes the muskrats out of the equation and was actually released the year before America's version:





I always pictured Lani, four years after her version, seeing Captain and Tenille (on HER label, no less) hitting number one with theirs, looking at Herb and saying "Really?"
Click to expand...

We had one radio AM station here in Eastern VA that was playing selections from Lani's first album and the DJ even talked about her when introducing the selections. Only Vincent and How Can I Tell You ever got play here. I did not hear anything by Lani as a solo artist on any other station. I never heard anything from her followup albums on the radio.
 
rockdoctor said:
We had one radio AM station here in Eastern VA that was playing selections from Lani's first album and the DJ even talked about her when introducing the selections. Only Vincent and How Can I Tell You ever got play here. I did not hear anything by Lani as a solo artist on any other station. I never heard anything from her followup albums on the radio.
Click to expand...

Lani didn't get a great deal of airplay as a solo artist until "Never Say Never Again" in 1983.

When I was programming radio (1971-81), I played "Love Song" and "Sun Down" from Sundown Lady, "Save The Sunlight" (the duet with Herb) from You Smile...The Song Begins, and "Where's Your Angel", "I Don't Want You To Go" and "Come What May" from Blush---but I was absolutely in the minority of AC programmers, and Top 40 radio all but ignored her.
 
The station I was listening to when SUN DOWN LADY came out played a number of selections from the album as they had it as a "Feature Album Of The Week", and they had already been playing "We Could Be Flying" from the WINGS album. So I heard "love Song" and "Tiny Dancer" and "How Can I Tell You" and "Come Down In Time" and "Sun Down".

By the time Lani's next album had come out, the station was taking a harder tack and never played her again. When I switched to working for another station in the market that was A/C, they played "Come What May" for about five minutes it seems. And that would be it.
 
Harry said:
When I switched to working for another station in the market that was A/C, they played "Come What May" for about five minutes it seems. And that would be it.
Click to expand...

I'll never understand it, Harry. I put those three tracks from Blush in strong rotations, gave them five or six weeks each to connect. It's like the audience just couldn't hear Lani unless it was a Brasil '66 record.
 
"Come What May" should have been a big hit. Seems like Herb and Lani thought so too as it got reworked twice, once for the COLLECTABLES album - with another single, and then a Spanish version on LO MEJOR DE LANI.
 
STEVE@ENGLAND said:
[SNIP]

According to the A.S.C.A.P data-base, there's an entry for Leaving on a
Jet Plane.
Click to expand...

Just a quick comment that as soon as I read this, I heard it - I think Richard would have done a great job applying his touch to this song, probably an album track and not a hit per se', but I can hear it.
 
STEVE@ENGLAND said:
I'm not sure when the idea of recording Muskat Love was mooted, but I only
hope Richard wasn't seriously considering it for inclusion on a proposed
'comeback' album (in '83).

According to the A.S.C.A.P data-base, there's an entry for Leaving on a
Jet Plane.

My guess is that Richard entertained the idea of Karen & John Denver
performing this song as a duet - on (the) Carpenter's 'Very First TV Special'
(1976).
Click to expand...
When Liza Minnelli was on the A & M label, she did a very nice version of Leaving On A Jet Plane. This was before Liza became LIZA.
 
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