Viola at 3:15--mistake or intentional?

[JMK]

OK, here's your completely arcane question for the day and it's one that's been bothering me for close to 40 years now [not that I'm a day over 29, mind you ]. This has come up again in my consciousness because I've been listening to the remastered "Crystal Illusions" (best of the remasters, IMHO).

At 3:15 in "Viola", as the girls are finishing their long held out "libertade", they end on a glaring minor 2nd. They don't do this on the previous time circa 2:09 and they don't do it again as they echo the word on the fade-out. For all the care Sergio took in this production (maybe the most sumptious of all the B66 with orchestra outings), I can't believe he'd let something that unmusical stand. So I wonder if maybe it was intentional, as a subtle dig at the military government of Brasil--Valle's lyric is an ode to freedom (libertade), after all. I'm curious what some of you others, especially you musicians, think about this.

 

[PartyRico]

Being the great jazz musician he is, that "discordant" ending you mention sounds to me like an "effect". (ala Thelonious Sphere Monk- perhaps one of the musicians who best utilized "dissonance") I thought it sounded very unique and original. A daring move too. That's one thing to be said of Sergio Mendes....He is not afraid to take risks. Bravo Sergio!

 

[Rudy]

It just sounds like one of them hits a wrong note...I hear both an A and an A-flat in the lead vocals at that point. The A is very subdued though--all these years I'd only heard the A-flat. Wouldn't that A-flat be a major 7th though? Isn't the root in the bass an A?

 

[Mike Blakesley]

I've always wondered about that myself but I think it must have been intentional or they would have fixed it.

Another "possible goof" I've noticed is during the horn section of "Zanzibar" (on PAIS TROPICAL) the horns go "da-da da da da-dah" seveeral times in succession, if you listen carefully you can hear one of the trumpets miss the higher note at the end - instead it just plays the same note six times. That one is so subtle that I figure they just left it because the rest of the session sounds so perfect. If I think of it later I'll post the time where this occurs.

 

[JMK]

It just sounds like one of them hits a wrong note...I hear both an A and an A-flat in the lead vocals at that point. The A is very subdued though--all these years I'd only heard the A-flat. Wouldn't that A-flat be a major 7th though? Isn't the root in the bass an A?

You are correct, sir (though to be completely pedantic--that is what I'm here for, after all ), it's properly a G#, not an Ab. Like I tell my students, you can only have one "version" of each alphabet letter in any given chord or scale (at least until those Wagnerites and later the 12 tone weirdos took over, LOL), and it being an "A" chord, A is already taken.

It's funny that you hear the Ab/G# more--for me, it's just the opposite, but maybe that's cause I really, really want to hear the "right" note.

 

[RichardWarner]

How about the feedback (headphone reverb?) during the instrumental bridge of "Laia Ladaia"?

 

[Rudy]

You are correct, sir (though to be completely pedantic--that is what I'm here for, after all ), it's properly a G#, not an Ab. Like I tell my students, you can only have one "version" of each alphabet letter in any given chord or scale (at least until those Wagnerites and later the 12 tone weirdos took over, LOL), and it being an "A" chord, A is already taken.

True...my music theory has about 20 years of rust on it. I'm not a 12-tone weirdo, just a hopeless hack, cursed with perfect pitch.

It's funny that you hear the Ab/G# more--for me, it's just the opposite, but maybe that's cause I really, really want to hear the "right" note.

Funny how we hear things differently. First, I've only really known this album for about 11 years--I owned it on cassette but rarely ever listened to it. (You can imagine how a mid 70s A&M cassette sounded!) I got the LP in 1995 or 1996 and finally got to hear it. My folks, for some reason, didn't ever want to buy it, despite my seeing it every trip we made to E.J. Korvette's. Short version: I never grew up with the album, and am not as familiar as someone else who has heard it for a few decades. (I know every note of the first four albums.)

Second thing: I never really noticed the correct note faintly in the background behind the G#.

And third: because of the G# leading up to the close of the song (and never having noticed the A behind it), I have always heard it that way, and had the impression that it was just a little "turn of phrase" (so to speak) to make it different from the first time it is sung. Plus, I don't know if I'm hearing it correctly, but at the end of the first "libertade", it resolves to an A major chord. In the second instance, it resolves to a different chord, does it not? (A major 7th.) The orchestration and mix is too dense to hear it clearly, but I'm thinking that's why the G# always sounded correct to me at that point.

This is another case of my knowing what I'm hearing, but unable to describe clearly with words. Hope this all made sense.

 

[Rudy]

How about the feedback (headphone reverb?) during the instrumental bridge of "Laia Ladaia"?

I've always heard that, too. What about that creaking sound on the beginning of "Triste" from Equinox?

 

[Harry]

At 3:15 in "Viola", as the girls are finishing their long held out "libertade", they end on a glaring minor 2nd. They don't do this on the previous time circa 2:09 and they don't do it again as they echo the word on the fade-out.

Perhaps the answer lies in the east - the Far East. I just checked this out - it's one of those things that's bugged me for years too.

I thought it might be prudent to check out the live version included as a bonus track on EXPO. There, the first time through resolves on the A as does the studio track. The second time through, the "libertade" ends on the "different" note and chord as the group goes off on a tangent not present in the studio version.

Not being familiar with the song from anyone else, I have to ask, is the "other" section, the part they do in the live version, part of the actual song, or a live embellishment of the tune? Therein, might lie the answer.

If the actual song proceeds the way they do it in the live version, then perhaps one of the two ladies headed in that direction on the studio track, and the take was so good otherwise, that it was left in. Perhaps at one time the song was going to end the way the live version does, but Mr. Grusin had other ideas?

Harry

 

[Harry]

What about that creaking sound on the beginning of "Triste" from Equinox?

Squeaky studio door? Chair creaking?


Harry

 

[JMK]

Harry, thanks for pointing that out, and you may indeed have a point, because guess what? In Marcos Valle's original, he on the lead vocal sings the "A" (actually a different key in his version) while the backups take off on that Expo '70 riff, meaning that they're on a "G#" for moment. Did you notice how Lani on Expo actually goes down to a G natural one time. So much for diatonicism.

 

[Trevor]

OK, have you heard in "What the World Needs Now" on the second verse (no, we don't need...), one of the singers start singing another verse, but corrects herself.

The other that I think of is "Norwegian Wood", and they took the time to make it "he" and "guy" and "him", but still use "this bird had flown". "Bird" is slang for girl in british english.

Question for the music men:

In "Gone Forever", "having known you..." part sound like the same lead, but the backing vocals are different sounding like a chord change. Yes?? What's different?

 

[Mike Blakesley]

"Bird" is slang for girl in British English.

Yes, but "bird" is also American slang for any person or even an animal, as in the movie Jaws when Quint says: "This bird....swallow you whole!"

 

[Mr Bill]

As far as the "wrong" chord goes, I can vouch that many times a band does a song one way and may even record it before the leader or arranger of that song decides the chord is "wrong."

A good example would be my church band where we've done a song one way for years and suddenly one Sunday our leader tells us, "guys, we've been playing an Caug here forever and it's always bugged me and I never knew why. I've decided it will sound better with an Aminor7 so we'll do it that way from now on."

So the original question is probably answered with a simple "it sounded right to Sergio at the time it was recorded and Sergio decided later it would sound better the other way."

--Mr Bill

 

[seashorepiano]

I bought the new reissue earlier today, and I'll have to listen specifically to this part of the track. I'll definitely report back!

 

[Rudy]

As far as the "wrong" chord goes, I can vouch that many times a band does a song one way and may even record it before the leader or arranger of that song decides the chord is "wrong."

It's not so much a wrong chord as it is an error by one of the singers: one is singing A where the other sings A-flat. It's like one of them either slipped a wrong note in, or Sergio changed the arrangement and one of them forgot the change.

 

[LPJim]

I've always wondered if there were some wrong notes during the final chorus of "Numero Cinco" on SOTB. The tune takes a different twist there, and it's possible this was deliberate - but who knows?
JB

 

[seashorepiano]

I think one of the singers made a mistake (not unusual for this group).