What's NOT on cd
- Thread starter lonely bull
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No. we're not at present going to lock this thread. There's no reason to. Remember - this thread grew out another where the title was about what WAS on CD. People whined about what WASN'T, and I suggested they start another thread for that purpose. It was properly done, and all have behaved properly as regards the rules of good forum behavior.
Again - no need to lock this thread as long as all remains civil. Continue to discuss the missing releases. That's what this thread is for.
Harry
...setting the record straight, online...
Again - no need to lock this thread as long as all remains civil. Continue to discuss the missing releases. That's what this thread is for.
Harry
...setting the record straight, online...
lonely bull
Active Member
Thank You Harry, You are right - there is no need to lock this thread, after all there is no animosity intended here - just a difference of opinion - that's all. We are all fans of Herb and we all want to see the rest of the catalogue released - some more than others maybe? 
Dore Adler
Member
MY only animosity (other than the albums not being released, naturally) is having all discussion about the missing releases being referred to as 'Whining.' Imagine if the Beatles rereleased every album except With The Beatles! Would it be 'whining' then?
As such, I don't really come here that often, except to see if there is news about what this thread is about. And that's sad -- I wanted to find a cool site that celebrated A&M records and almost right away got alienated by the lockdowns, and needless insults. That is soooo not in the A&M tradition!!!
At least there is a thead now where we can vent our frustration without a lockdown. So, I'll say my piece and go softly into that good night --
Vol. Two is a great record and technical issues be damned, it should be out there with ALL the others.
As such, I don't really come here that often, except to see if there is news about what this thread is about. And that's sad -- I wanted to find a cool site that celebrated A&M records and almost right away got alienated by the lockdowns, and needless insults. That is soooo not in the A&M tradition!!!
At least there is a thead now where we can vent our frustration without a lockdown. So, I'll say my piece and go softly into that good night --
Vol. Two is a great record and technical issues be damned, it should be out there with ALL the others.
As part of the moderating team here, I'd like to say that it's sometimes hard to deal with repetitive posts on basically the same subject. We're human, we're not paid to do this, and it gets difficult, day in and day out to come here and read yet another post of "Where's VOLUME 2?" or "Where's WARM?". Believe us when we say that we want them as much if not more than any of you - it's just that we've been down that road so many times that it wears thin, and that wearing down shows in some of our "snarky" replies and the use of the word "whining." To us, these near-constant posts come across as "whining", and I'm sorry that you take offense at that. Try looking at it from our point of view, and maybe you can see why it is the way it is.
I believe that every fandom group has its things about which members "whine." Beatles fans constantly clamor for re-releases on CD with better mastering. STAR TREK fans constantly try to get Blooper reels or the Animated Series released. ABBA fans have for years sought out a finished recording called "Just Like That".
Thread lockdowns occur because of really two things: inflammatory or inappropriate posting or duplicate subject matter. We try to maintain a consistency of decent meaningful threads on the subjects that we cover. The release or non-release of certain CDs has been covered by a variety of threads, and as such, there's hardly need for more of them.
We have people here in touch with the Alpert, Mendes, and Carpenters camps and believe me we'll do our very best to bring you any news of any future releases - and as always, we appreciate the help of the membership in spotting things that we might miss, like the recent note about the selected Mendes re-releases coming out in the fall.
Thanks for your understanding.
Harry
I believe that every fandom group has its things about which members "whine." Beatles fans constantly clamor for re-releases on CD with better mastering. STAR TREK fans constantly try to get Blooper reels or the Animated Series released. ABBA fans have for years sought out a finished recording called "Just Like That".
Thread lockdowns occur because of really two things: inflammatory or inappropriate posting or duplicate subject matter. We try to maintain a consistency of decent meaningful threads on the subjects that we cover. The release or non-release of certain CDs has been covered by a variety of threads, and as such, there's hardly need for more of them.
We have people here in touch with the Alpert, Mendes, and Carpenters camps and believe me we'll do our very best to bring you any news of any future releases - and as always, we appreciate the help of the membership in spotting things that we might miss, like the recent note about the selected Mendes re-releases coming out in the fall.
Thanks for your understanding.
Harry
Dore Adler
Member
I do understand to a point. I made my point about the unreleased albums long ago. To reiterate -- I have a record company myself, and I can't imagine why someone would want to protect me from the desires of any fans out there who wish to express their love for my company's product. The Dan Bolton post on another thread was so OTT in this regard that I just had to post a balancing reaction.
To excerbate the issue by calling such fans, "Whiners," seems excessively controlling, even for over-worked moderators. We all love the music of Herb and the TJB, but by polarizing those who have expressed the opinion that Warm, Vol.2, etc., should also get upgraded releases, I feel your team has erred.
It's no world-ending problem to be sure, in fact it's not even on the radar screen as important. I simply wish to hear A-MER-I-CA, Marching Through Madrid, and maybe even Mexican Drummer Man in remastered form before I die. More importantly, I think Herb would like to know that such a wish is shared by many of his fans.
So, I've said my piece for the last time. I have no personal ill-will against you Harry. I've always enjoyed your posts at SteveHoffman.tv and in fact came here because of them.
As for "Captain Snarky":....I think he was doing his job the way he saw fit, heavy-handed though he was.
To excerbate the issue by calling such fans, "Whiners," seems excessively controlling, even for over-worked moderators. We all love the music of Herb and the TJB, but by polarizing those who have expressed the opinion that Warm, Vol.2, etc., should also get upgraded releases, I feel your team has erred.
It's no world-ending problem to be sure, in fact it's not even on the radar screen as important. I simply wish to hear A-MER-I-CA, Marching Through Madrid, and maybe even Mexican Drummer Man in remastered form before I die. More importantly, I think Herb would like to know that such a wish is shared by many of his fans.
So, I've said my piece for the last time. I have no personal ill-will against you Harry. I've always enjoyed your posts at SteveHoffman.tv and in fact came here because of them.
As for "Captain Snarky":....I think he was doing his job the way he saw fit, heavy-handed though he was.
Since you also frequent SteveHoffman.TV, then you'll recognize similar tactics there whenever a newbie pops up and asks why The Beatles CDs aren't remastered. Some of the main hangers-on over there are, shall we say, a bit intolerant at times. It's a fact of life on Internet message forums. There's always a hardcore bunch of regulars who've discussed all of the possible topics to death, and they end up with little patience for newbies who come along innocently asking age-old questions dealt with long ago.
In this case too, there's the frustration factor we ALL feel in regard to these unreleased-on-CD recordings. It's not like we know for sure one way or the other - we only know what we've heard from the best reliable sources we have.
Personally, I've always been a do-it-yourself kind of guy when it comes to this kind of stuff. If I didn't already own a VOLUME 2 CD from the old A&M releases, I'd make one from the LP. And that's what I did with WARM, SUMMERTIME, YOU SMILE and CONEY ISLAND, and indeed JUST YOU AND ME and MAIN EVENT LIVE.
It was just too important for me to have those albums available in CD format so I could listen to them anywhere. I wasn't content to wait, and took it upon myself to do what others would not do for me. The moment these appear on CD, I'll be first in line to buy them. In some cases though, my homemade CD's might sound better than what gets re-released. Most of my vinyl is very clean and let's face it - they were pressed when those master tapes were new. Thirty to forty years of sitting around can't be very kind to analog tape, regardless of storage conditions.
I already know that my own version of THE BRASS ARE COMIN' sounds better than the Japanese CD that was issued, even if both have the dreaded HAECO-CSG processing. My LP still sounds crisper, and has more life to it.
Harry
In this case too, there's the frustration factor we ALL feel in regard to these unreleased-on-CD recordings. It's not like we know for sure one way or the other - we only know what we've heard from the best reliable sources we have.
Personally, I've always been a do-it-yourself kind of guy when it comes to this kind of stuff. If I didn't already own a VOLUME 2 CD from the old A&M releases, I'd make one from the LP. And that's what I did with WARM, SUMMERTIME, YOU SMILE and CONEY ISLAND, and indeed JUST YOU AND ME and MAIN EVENT LIVE.
It was just too important for me to have those albums available in CD format so I could listen to them anywhere. I wasn't content to wait, and took it upon myself to do what others would not do for me. The moment these appear on CD, I'll be first in line to buy them. In some cases though, my homemade CD's might sound better than what gets re-released. Most of my vinyl is very clean and let's face it - they were pressed when those master tapes were new. Thirty to forty years of sitting around can't be very kind to analog tape, regardless of storage conditions.
I already know that my own version of THE BRASS ARE COMIN' sounds better than the Japanese CD that was issued, even if both have the dreaded HAECO-CSG processing. My LP still sounds crisper, and has more life to it.
Harry
Captaindave
Well-Known Member
When I think about this reissue project, I cannot help but consider how the 1962 - 1968 recordings of Herb Alpert and the Tijuana Brass would be the principal focal point of the effort. Yes, that would include the elusive Volume 2, but if my opinion is correct, that particular album may have contained the least recognizable content by the general public of all the LB - BOTB albums inclusive. I am not speaking here about the interests of the dedicated fan base, but about the masses of people who knew the name Herb Alpert and the Tijuana Brass as a household name because of the songs - the really big hits - that received mass Top 40 radio airplay back in the sixties.
Those big hits ended with This Guy's In Love...on BOTB. They started with Lonely Bull. IMHO, the big era of popularity ended with BOTB. WARM marks the beginning of a transition phase in the career of Herb Alpert from TJB to solo, and the gradual demise of the mass popularity of the TJB. I probably can find any number of people who are currently living who may well remember Tijuana Taxi, Spanish Flea, Zorba the Greek, or This Guy's In Love; but none of those same people know a thing about the content of WARM or the rest of the Herb Alpert career post BOTB.
I don't know what the future holds for the reissue of other Herb Alpert related material, but I could see how the reissue effort to date could be driven by the reissue of the recordings that comprise and cover the material from the era when Herb Alpert and the TJB were at the zenith of mass, worldwide popularity.
I am not trying to take sides here - I am simply expressing a feeling in regard to what might produce any significant sales.
FWIW...
Those big hits ended with This Guy's In Love...on BOTB. They started with Lonely Bull. IMHO, the big era of popularity ended with BOTB. WARM marks the beginning of a transition phase in the career of Herb Alpert from TJB to solo, and the gradual demise of the mass popularity of the TJB. I probably can find any number of people who are currently living who may well remember Tijuana Taxi, Spanish Flea, Zorba the Greek, or This Guy's In Love; but none of those same people know a thing about the content of WARM or the rest of the Herb Alpert career post BOTB.
I don't know what the future holds for the reissue of other Herb Alpert related material, but I could see how the reissue effort to date could be driven by the reissue of the recordings that comprise and cover the material from the era when Herb Alpert and the TJB were at the zenith of mass, worldwide popularity.
I am not trying to take sides here - I am simply expressing a feeling in regard to what might produce any significant sales.
FWIW...
Good points.
On a slightly related note, I can recall visiting store after store back in the '80s and early '90s and being frustrated that VOLUME 2 WAS available. Here was an album with fairly unrecognizable tunes (in the grand scheme of things) that was inprint, and yet SOUNDS LIKE and NINTH were nowhere to be found, yet those had far more recognizable and bonafide hits on them.
I often theorized that VOLUME 2 was out there, kept in print, because someone at the record company wasn't paying too much attention and might have thought it was a "greatest hits" volume 2.
So, in a reversal of the way things are today, I sort-of resented the fact that it WAS in print.
Harry
On a slightly related note, I can recall visiting store after store back in the '80s and early '90s and being frustrated that VOLUME 2 WAS available. Here was an album with fairly unrecognizable tunes (in the grand scheme of things) that was inprint, and yet SOUNDS LIKE and NINTH were nowhere to be found, yet those had far more recognizable and bonafide hits on them.
I often theorized that VOLUME 2 was out there, kept in print, because someone at the record company wasn't paying too much attention and might have thought it was a "greatest hits" volume 2.
So, in a reversal of the way things are today, I sort-of resented the fact that it WAS in print.
Harry
DAN BOLTON
Well-Known Member
Since I've been villified and lambasted by more than one person in more than one thread, let me defend my position. Harry has done a pretty good job of that, but I think I need to clarify things a little. I am NOT about to go "postal". That was meant to be a joke, but evidently lost something in translation. The "no pun intended" was aimed at Captain Bacardi...I wasn't about to imply that I was gonna use a shotgun...I was just gonna post a lot on my own behalf...
So, put your bullet proof vests away...you don't need them.
I have no quarrel with newcomers posting their frustrations regarding the incompleteness of the reissue program as it sits today...but I find it offensive that forum members that have posted hundreds of times and have obviously been following the threads are still venting their frustrations. People, we've been over and over this issue. That's why I said what I did regarding "whiners" and "ingrates".
There's nothing wrong with wanting WARM, et.al. reissued. I want that to happen, too...and the sooner, the better. But we've been through that. Some albums wouldn't benefit from a remix, and it wouldn't be practical to even try. It wouldn't make good marketing sense to include them with the ones that HAVE been remastered, and that should be obvious to any regular forum member with knowledge of the canon.
I'll stand by the other points I made in my by now infamous post, as well. Each of those points should be obvious to any long-standing forum member.
People have abused the forum horribly regarding the reissue issue...a few weeks ago, somebody was ranting the same post over and over, sometimes in threads that weren't even related to the reissue topic. This person finally got the message and stopped doing this, but it took a long time for it to stop.
Other posters seeem to assume the worst, without regarding the facts...nobody's said that the reissue program is finished...but a lot of people are acting like it is...and some of them have been here long enough to have a better grasp of what's really going on than that.
Some of us have been here for several years, and we've seen it all...so to speak...some of us remember when it seemed impossible to even imagine that Herb Alpert would reissue ANYTHING; and a lot of people vented their frustrations loud and long then, too.
Dore, sorry if you feel my post was OTT...if I were a record company exec I'd love to hear that people wanted to hear what I was producing. I have made a few recordings, myself...and I love the attention I almost never get...BUT...Herb Alpert is in a far different position than you or me. Millions of people want to talk to him, and ther isn't enough time in the world to accomodate all of them. And, you can't always do what everybody wants, when they want it...can you?
Some posters here have , when asked to be patient, responded with "No, I'm going to take every opportunity to make my anger known to Herb Alpert over this issue..." That gets old in a hurry. That seems childish to me...does Herb Alpert listen to broken records?
I guess a thread to vent frustrations is a good idea...not that it really matters what I think...
I don't want to hurt the feelings of anybody who really enjoys Herb Alpert's music. And I apologize if I did that. There is nothing wrong with wanting all of the albums rereleased on CD. Nothing wrong with voicing your opinion, or venting your frustrations...but it was being done so much that it was beginning to lose it's effectiveness. And, speculation was running rampant. People were putting thoughts into Herb's head and second-guessing him to excess. I found it offensive and counterproductive, and I said so.
One other thing, my heart hasn't "exploded", but my father's did. So did my grandmother's. I am constantly aware that mine might someday. I have learned that some things are just not worth getting into an uproar about...this music was meant to be enjoyed, not fought over. That's why I have that quote from Herbie Mann at the bottom of each of my posts...to remind me that music ISN'T something to get so obsessed with that it drowns out everything else. It's easy to get carried away...if worse came to worse, would the world really end if we didn't get all the stuff we were promised?
Think about it...
Dan
So, put your bullet proof vests away...you don't need them.
I have no quarrel with newcomers posting their frustrations regarding the incompleteness of the reissue program as it sits today...but I find it offensive that forum members that have posted hundreds of times and have obviously been following the threads are still venting their frustrations. People, we've been over and over this issue. That's why I said what I did regarding "whiners" and "ingrates".
There's nothing wrong with wanting WARM, et.al. reissued. I want that to happen, too...and the sooner, the better. But we've been through that. Some albums wouldn't benefit from a remix, and it wouldn't be practical to even try. It wouldn't make good marketing sense to include them with the ones that HAVE been remastered, and that should be obvious to any regular forum member with knowledge of the canon.
I'll stand by the other points I made in my by now infamous post, as well. Each of those points should be obvious to any long-standing forum member.
People have abused the forum horribly regarding the reissue issue...a few weeks ago, somebody was ranting the same post over and over, sometimes in threads that weren't even related to the reissue topic. This person finally got the message and stopped doing this, but it took a long time for it to stop.
Other posters seeem to assume the worst, without regarding the facts...nobody's said that the reissue program is finished...but a lot of people are acting like it is...and some of them have been here long enough to have a better grasp of what's really going on than that.
Some of us have been here for several years, and we've seen it all...so to speak...some of us remember when it seemed impossible to even imagine that Herb Alpert would reissue ANYTHING; and a lot of people vented their frustrations loud and long then, too.
Dore, sorry if you feel my post was OTT...if I were a record company exec I'd love to hear that people wanted to hear what I was producing. I have made a few recordings, myself...and I love the attention I almost never get...BUT...Herb Alpert is in a far different position than you or me. Millions of people want to talk to him, and ther isn't enough time in the world to accomodate all of them. And, you can't always do what everybody wants, when they want it...can you?
Some posters here have , when asked to be patient, responded with "No, I'm going to take every opportunity to make my anger known to Herb Alpert over this issue..." That gets old in a hurry. That seems childish to me...does Herb Alpert listen to broken records?
I guess a thread to vent frustrations is a good idea...not that it really matters what I think...
I don't want to hurt the feelings of anybody who really enjoys Herb Alpert's music. And I apologize if I did that. There is nothing wrong with wanting all of the albums rereleased on CD. Nothing wrong with voicing your opinion, or venting your frustrations...but it was being done so much that it was beginning to lose it's effectiveness. And, speculation was running rampant. People were putting thoughts into Herb's head and second-guessing him to excess. I found it offensive and counterproductive, and I said so.
One other thing, my heart hasn't "exploded", but my father's did. So did my grandmother's. I am constantly aware that mine might someday. I have learned that some things are just not worth getting into an uproar about...this music was meant to be enjoyed, not fought over. That's why I have that quote from Herbie Mann at the bottom of each of my posts...to remind me that music ISN'T something to get so obsessed with that it drowns out everything else. It's easy to get carried away...if worse came to worse, would the world really end if we didn't get all the stuff we were promised?
Think about it...
Dan
seashorepiano
Active Member
Well said, Dan.
Dave
Well-Known Member
Dan, I'd say the best way for you to unwind from all this "Brou-Ha-Ha" on the Herb Reissues is to obviously come up here to Michigan this Weekend for our Annual Dream Cruise!
"Sacred Ground for us Gearheads", you said!
C'mon, make me change my mind about driving down to some Antique Mall I saw and drove by in Springfield, Ohio last Saturday (and had been to once last year) and maybe I'll join you!
And a Mark IV, not V (Though the 1977-1979 Lincoln Personal Luxury Replacement for the Mark IV-series (1972-1976) is almost as good...) is my fav'...!
Dave
"Sacred Ground for us Gearheads", you said!
C'mon, make me change my mind about driving down to some Antique Mall I saw and drove by in Springfield, Ohio last Saturday (and had been to once last year) and maybe I'll join you!
And a Mark IV, not V (Though the 1977-1979 Lincoln Personal Luxury Replacement for the Mark IV-series (1972-1976) is almost as good...) is my fav'...!
Dave
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