Carpenters - the mono mixes

[Harry]

3" discs are mini CDs. They were originally designed to be a sort of replacement format for the 45 single in the digital world, but they never caught on here in the States. Japan seemed to like them though, as many releases were put out over there in the 3" CD format. Today, you can even buy 3" blank discs -- they hold about 20 minutes of audio material. The problem is, you can't feed them into a player that "sucks in" the disc. You can only place them in the center depression of the player's tray, found in most home players and CD ROM drives. Car players are usually the ones that can't handle a 3" disc. It's odd, but mu car manuals have always said that they're 3" compatible, but I've never had the guts to actually try it. It's just not worth it to try it. If it got stuck in there, I'd never forgive myself.

7" is simply the size designation for a 45 or mini LP (for jukeboxes). LP's are 12" and singles are 7". There was also a 10" size that has come and gone over the years at variuos times. I have an A&M '80s-issued 10" record of Suzanne Vega's from the UK. It's a different mix of her hit "Luka".

Harry
...wondering if someone will come up with a 3" DVD, online...

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

Yeah, I seen some 3" singles of Karen, from her solo album I think.

You mentioned that the 3" CD's were sorta like a replacement of the 45 (or they tried for it to be) would you consider them rare? Would they have the same format of say some of the 45's that are mono one side stereo other side? In other words did they make the 3" singles to be mono/stereo? To match the 45's? Just curious.

I've been tempted to get a 3" just because it's different but I wonder if there considered rare?

 

[Harry]

I don't believe that 3" CDs were ever issued in promo form to radio stations, so it's unlikely that there'd be a mono mix. Most 3" singles have at least two tracks -- the main one, and a b-side of some type, usually another track from the album. In the case of re-issue 3" singles, they would combine two (or three, or even four) "hits" onto one little disc. I only own one 3" disc, a Beach Boys LITTLE BIT O'GOLD with four tracks of the hit variety.

But I remember seeing 3" discs from an A&M series (Memories?), in the CD racks for a short time. They were repackaged oldies, two or three to a disc in some kind of generic package with the artist and titles printed on them. Things like Carpenters' "We've Only Just Begun" and Herb's "This Guy's In Love With You."

Harry
...sleepless in Philadelphia, online...

 

[coolvox]

Hello Everyone
This is my first
post to the site! Its very
informative and Im happy to be
here!
I found Harrys post on the mono
mixes extremely interesting.
finding new ways to bring vocals
forward is neat stuff!
I am a novice audiofile but have
experimented with my DVD player
and found switching audio programs
highligts backing vocals and karen
on lead.
I would love to find a way to
isolate each vocal in the 4 part
harmonies.
Richards recording techniques are
truly hypnotic! No matter how many
times I listen to them I hear details that are new to me.

 

[Rudy]

3" CDs are used now in some Sony digital cameras--they record directly to the CD, which is cool. I'm going to get a spindle of these for a couple of pet projects I've had, and I think they'll be great for the kids, who don't have patience to sit through an 80 minute CD.

I have a handful of titles on 3". Many of them are just 12" singles--basically, the longer, extended remixes that used to appear on 12" vinyl. Earth Wind & Fire, Terence Trent D'Arby, George Michael, etc. Arista had 3" CDs with three songs on them in an 'oldies' series: I have one from Ray Parker Jr. I have a limited edition Bruce Springsteen EP on 3" that, to the best of my knowledge, isn't in print anywhere. Might be collectible. Have a 3" sampler from dmp Records, which was the first one I ever purchased. The only A&M is a Sting, which has "Englishman In New York" and two non-album tracks, "Someone To Watch Over Me" and a Hendrix song he recorded with Gil Evans, "Up From The Skies".

I think some car players can take in a 3", but there used to be adapters that thte 3" CD clipped into so they would play in larger players. Since I predominantly use my 100-CD changer now, I'd have to use an adapter, or just play them elsewhere.

Neat idea, but due to mass production it's cheaper to release a 3-minute song on a 12cm CD vs. 8cm (3"). The smaller CDs also cost more as blanks.

 

[PJ]

As Harry Stated Carpenters WOJB / FAWK was issued in USA in 1995 as a Rare Polygram / A&M CD Single in the 1990's.

The only Karen Solo 3'' CD Singles I can Recall were issued in 1996 with the Official Release of Karen Carpenter Album and then Only in Japan and Asia !

Make Believe (Karen Solo Version) was Planned for USA / UK Release in Autumn 1996 and then Cancelled with as usual no Reasons Provided

Possibly some Radio / Promo 3'' CD Singles were issued and Have Found Their Way onto the Market ? Has Harry or others involved in Radio Heard / Seen Any Rogue Copies ?

Peter....Looking Out For More CD Singles......

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

Well today was a Carpenters day today.

First I tried with no luck to find the Remastered Singles 1969-1973 CD, I tried 3 record stores & nothing. I guess I need to ck the used stores.

Then I went to an oldies 45's & LP's Store near me. And I ran into some luck. Since Harry's thread really intrigued me, I looked through 100's & I mean 100's of 45's today Looking for Promo 45's with mono on one side. This was the same store that had those 2 rare jukebox 45's, Oh I asked him how much & said they were $20.00 each. I'm still thinking

Anyway, this is what I bought.

* I Need to be in Love-Promo Stereo/Mono (It also says editied version time 3:25)
* Sweet Sweet Smile-Promo Stereo/Mono
*Only Yesterday-Promo Stereo/Mono
*Solitaire-Promo Stereo/Mono
*I Believe You-Promo Stereo/Mono

* Mary Xmas Darling-It says stereo but I had to buy cause maybe it will be the original version? Help me here guys could it be? It has the tan label says it can be played either stereo or monaurally, time is 3:02 AM1236-S

Also, I found the LP for Made in America, Still Sealed in Shrink Wrap, I bought that for $12.00.

Here is where I have a question too. In the $2.00 bin I found 3 USED Lp's Now & Then, A Song for You & the tan Carpenters Lp's The guy said these were first issued because they were not your normal Lp's they reminded me of carboard enveloped cause the lp's opened like an envelope flap. They were sorta used looking but still very cool to open & see large pics inside. Should I have got those? They had the usual wear around edges from holding them.

Oh, I also found another 45 which was a promo but it had 7 songs on it. Sorta cool didn't get that.

 

[Harry]

First I tried with no luck to find the Remastered Singles 1969-1973 CD, I tried 3 record stores & nothing. I guess I need to ck the used stores.

Happy hunting. Do you own the original issue CD?

Anyway, this is what I bought.

* I Need to be in Love-Promo Stereo/Mono (It also says editied version time 3:25)
* Sweet Sweet Smile-Promo Stereo/Mono
*Only Yesterday-Promo Stereo/Mono
*Solitaire-Promo Stereo/Mono
*I Believe You-Promo Stereo/Mono

The first one I have and listed above. It's the short version without the piano intro.
The rest of those I don't have, so when you get to listen to them, let us know.

* Mary Xmas Darling-It says stereo but I had to buy cause maybe it will be the original version? Help me here guys could it be? It has the tan label says it can be played either stereo or monaurally, time is 3:02 AM1236-S

Yep, that's the original single, with "Mr. Guder" on the flip side. Original mix. I've got three copies of that with different sleeves. One's a white label promo in a generic A&M sleeve, one's an ochre lable stock copy in a picture sleeve, and the last is another white-label promo in a plain green sleeve.

Here is where I have a question too. In the $2.00 bin I found 3 USED Lp's Now & Then, A Song for You & the tan Carpenters Lp's The guy said these were first issued because they were not your normal Lp's they reminded me of carboard enveloped cause the lp's opened like an envelope flap. They were sorta used looking but still very cool to open & see large pics inside. Should I have got those? They had the usual wear around edges from holding them.

Those three LPs all had special packaging when first release. The tan album had a large envelope flap opening that folded down from the top. A SONG FOR YOU had a side flap that covered the sleeve opening, and NOW AND THEN had a tri-fold cover with the record in the middle part. Buy them only if you're into packaging, and having an original issue. The recordings of course are all the same as we're familiar with.

Oh, I also found another 45 which was a promo but it had 7 songs on it. Sorta cool didn't get that.

Huh? A Carpenters record with seven songs on it?

Harry
...tired from house-cleaning today, online...

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

Yes Harry, It had 7 songs on it, he said it was really rare, it was a 45, Sorry I cant remember the song, I was looking at soo much today. But all the songs were from the same lp. He said it was sorta like a sampler given to the dj's as a promo.

I have to admit to liking those 3 envelope style lp's if they wernt in such bad shape I would have bought them.

No I don't have the original Cd Singles 1969-1973, that's why I was looking for the remastered but now I can't find either. LOL

I can't wait to play that Merry Xmas Darling 45, especially if it's the original mix. Right Harry it has Mr Guder on the flip. Has the tan brownish label.

I have most of the oriignal lp's but didn't have MIA so that was a cool find today it's still sealed. Thay also had the singles Lp 1969-1973 still sealed with sticker & small booklet inside (I looke through it) When I got mine I never got this cool booklet. Has the word to the song inside w pics & about 5x7 size or little bigger. The booklet was attached to the outside sealed lp

...excited at my finds today.

 

[Harry]

SINGLES 1969-1973 was originally issued with that matching brown-colored booklet with the photos and lyrics inside, plus some notes from Richard about the tracks.

It was even in my Quad album!

Harry
...off to watch some TV, online...

 

[CraigGA]

It is hard to believe the value of those 45's. I have several and never expected that kind of return if sold. The jacket to the 45 Santa Clause is Coming to Town is kinda neat, with Merry Christmas Darling on the flip side. This was released in '74. The first release of Merry Christmas Darling have Richard and Karen on the front cover in one of their worst photos. They are all in Stereo.
Craig

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

Harry, Remember a long time ago on ran's board we had discussed the song, "From This Moment On" and we had talked that somewhere it was given to us in the Mono form.

This song appears on a few different cd's along with being on the VHS of Interpretations. Was it on the VHS video that it was in the mono form? I can't seem to remember but I mentioned that I really preferred it in the mono form because Karen vocals were more upfront & not drowned by the piano. Remember me talking about that?

That leads me to another point, would there be a 45 mono/stereo version out there somewhere?

 

[Harry]

Yes, Chris, I do remember the discussion. What we learned was that on the original UK/Canada edition of INTERPRETATIONS (21 tracks), the studio version of "From This Moment On" appears with Richard's piano in mono. Karen's vocal is stereo, as you can hear the echo effects expanding left and right. So that basic track is stereo, but Richard's piano was recorded in mono, the effect being that his playing didn't overshadow Karen's vocal.

When the US released INTERPRETATIONS a year later, the track listing was pruned down to only 16, and Richard had re-recorded his piano part in stereo on "From This Moment On."

The video of INTERPRETATIONS (LaserDisc and VHS) feature the mono-piano version.

And these are not to be confused with the similar-sounding live track lifted from the LIVE AT THE PALLADIUM album. That track also appears on the box sets FROM THE TOP and ESSENTIAL COLLECTION.

I don't believe the record was ever issued as a single, so it's unlikely that a mono promo mix exists.

Harry
...off to work on a Wednesday, online...

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

Hey everyone, I promise to give you my review of the 6 Promo Mono Singles that I have of the Carpenters just as soon as I have my new turntable.

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

Well I promised you all my review of the mono singles I have. I spent alot of time last night really getting into these 45's. It was really cool.

Before I get to the Mono's...Let me say that I was floored to find out that I have the 45 of "Merry Xmas Darling" the original mix. I remember Harry mentioning in the past about how you can really tell the original from the re-record by listening closely to the begining of "wish to make a special one for you" with special having an added effect on the original with a plain version on the re-record. Also near the end of the song on the last "Happy New Year" on the original she drops the notes New Year for an added special affect rather than the plain all one key in the re-record. I'm estactic to finally get this original & it's a pretty clean 45 too.

I was also kinda bummed out to find that my "Your Baby Doesn't Love You Anymore" was not a mono but a stereo both side but was listed as a promo copy.

Now on to my mono reviews....

My first mono 45 was "Sweet Sweet Smile" I first noticed that the opening piano is much softer sounding, I can tell that Karen's vocal was more separated from the instruments, also I found that the overdubbing seems slightly softer on the mono version which seems to bring Karen lead more to the front. I too noticed that after the part "I gotta know that ya care" her lead is brighter, what sounds like a violin on this song appears to be softer on the mono. I was impressed with this version.

Up next was "I Believe You" I swear this mono is different sounding to me. Her vocal seems way up to the front to me. it's evident in the "I;ve made up my mind for a lifetime" & even the ooo's oooo's after she sings, Baby I believe you, the overdubbing of the ooo's seems stronger to me. Also when the songs gets quite on "Honey I Love You, sounds really more upfront & more presence than the stereo version. It also seems to me her whole vocal lead is louder in general on the mono.

This next one. I was completely blown away by. "Solitaire" I cannot begin to tell you how awesome this mono version is. The moment it started I knew. The opening was so loud & in the forefront, it is hard to describe but the song is brighter on the mono. I was soo used to the song in my head from the Horizons CD that I was always let down that the opening was sooo low sounding that it just draged for me until like half way through. BUT the mono side was all different, her voice just popped for me here. It is unreal. It is so clear that I can almost hear her voice vibrate through the mike& I never heard that on the CD version. It is almost like Karen is in one room & the background instruments of the track are in another room. I am in love with this mono version. Even the ending seemed diff to me her final words, He's playing solitaire sounds much clearer. The stereo version always made me feel that Karen was muffled down in some way with the rest of the track. This is my favorite mono I tested.

"Only Yesterday" was another mono I had, Again this is hard to describe but the opening of the mono version is evident to me that there is a diff. Her voice seems more prominant, it's like she seems a 1/4 inch from the mic on the mono & on the stereo she seems like 3 inches away. Even when Richard comes in on the overdubbing, there seems to be more of the vocals & less of the background music. What I also noticed was on the 2nd verse "I found my home here in your arms, nowhere else on earth I'd really rather be" on the mono version the drum kick is less evident making the vocal appear to be more upfront. On the stereo version the drum kick seemed louder.

My last mono single is "I Need to be in Love" No piano intro on this one. The thing that I noticed about this one was on the stereo verison her vocal & backing instrucments seemed to be at the same level, each seemed just as loud as the other. On the mono, it seemed the backing music was just behind her vocal. Again her vocal seemed to pop for me here much, much more crisp. Another thing I noticed on this one is the opening instruments seem strong at the start but then when Karen starts singing, the instruments seem much softer & seem thrown to the back. Maybe that is why it seems her vocal is stronger & clearer & not in competition w the background track.

All in all I have to say I was very impressed with these. I really wasn't expecting to hear much difference at all. It totally blew me away when I was previewing Solitaire.

I don't know if this is a earth-shattering find but I can tell you that anytime I can hear these hits in a different way than what I am so use to hearing, it is a "treat" for me indeed.

...waiting for 1 more mono 45 in the mail, online....

 

[Harry]

Thanks for the review, Chris. At least you've confirmed that there are differences, if ever-so-subtle, on the mono mixes. I find it interesting that the titles that you found are totally different from mine, almost like the two of us have half of the availble mono mixes. I'll have to keep an eye out for these. Just what I need -- more Carpenters records!

Harry
...up early on a Wednesday Morning, online...

 

[CraigGA]

I really have liked watching the review of the mono mixes. One thing I would like to know....stereo systems in the early 70's were not the best, and I wonder if those differences would have been heard as they are now. Now, there were some good audio system out there, but those people mainly bought albums, and with quad sound, the voices were very prominent, and with the better sytems, more rounded and complete in their tone, as I remember. The mono singles were meant for am radio play where most any fidelity is erased from the ear, hence the focus on the important tracks.

Watch the video Only Yesterday, or the DVD Gold, and watch Only Yesterday, listen to the clarity of Karen's voice front and center, as well as the remastered version of Horizon.

The audio system upon which this is listened makes all the difference.

Craig

 

[Jeff]

Well today I headed to a favorite used record store and found promo copies of CLOSE TO YOU, HURTING EACH OTHER, SING, PLEASE MR. POSTMAN, ONLY YESTERDAY and I BELIEVE YOU all in mono. At $2.50 a pop I couldn't pass them up. The sound quality is excellent and it's nice to hear a 'different' mix than the stereo one's I've grown accustomed to. I get into this collecting thing....some days you hit the jackpot!

I've got "mono",

Jeff

 

[Harry]

You found "Close To You" in mono? Tell us about it. Is it a white label promo? Mono on one side and stereo on the other? Or mono all the way around?

Congratulations on the find.

Harry

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

Jeff, please give us your review of what you think of the mono's

Wow you got some good ones, Close to You, that is a rare find indeed. I have only 2 of the ones you mentioned.

 

[Jeff]

In answer to Harry's question: the CLOSE TO YOU single is a white label not for sale promo copy w/stereo on one side and mono on the other. I have to echo some past reviews re: the mono mixes...seems to me karen's vocals are out-front or showcased, if you will, w/the instrumentation taking a backseat. Listening in mono brought back memories of the early 70's and Casey Kasem's American Top 40, where I would listen religiously for CarpenterS latest chart activity...

Those Good Old Dreams...

Jeff

 

[Ed Bishop]

As a mono lover myself, a fascinating subject. In most cases, these are probably fold-downs, but not *just* that: while flattening the stereo to mono, usually considerable Eq adjustments are made to bring forth vocals, drums, or other instrumentation that either tends to recede in a fold-down, or else is brought forward for better impact on AM radio, which was never a high fidelity medium, as we know. Still, in the process, some mixes can seem almost night-and-day, if done well, with care. But I do agree at least a few of the Carpenters single were probably specially mixed, most likely if a fold was done but didn't come out sounding right.

Like all 45's, it an individual thing, single to single, artist to artist. Three Dog Night's singles catalog is almost completely different compared to the Lp counterparts, and not just because the mono mixes were special. There were special edits, takes, mixes, you name it, both mono and stereo, along with fades not used on the Lp versions. Wild! Karen & Richard's singles catalog isn't quite that crazy, but I'm sure there are a handful of special mixes floating around. And remember, it was rare to just *fold down* any mix for airplay: something was usually done to *punch it up* unless the fold was so perfect there was no need to fix it. Possible, but I'd suspect rare.

ED

 

[Jeff]

Well Gang,

I just received a call this morning from my'used record shop on the corner guy' who told me after rummaging deeper into his stash, he found another mono version of I BELIEVE YOU. What I'm wondering is: Should I acquire it and save it for safe keeping? Or is there really anything, other than novelty, that this type of item offers? It's only $3.00...What the heck...

One of the nice things about living here in the Pacific NorthWest, is that I don't have alot of competition from other collectors. So everybody rest assured...I've got this patch 'covered'


Best of Spring,

Jeff

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

Jeff, I would get it in a heartbeat, for 3.00 that is a steal for a Promo Copy of that. I have that very single in Mono form & paid 5.00 for it.

If you come across any others at your local shop like duplicates you already have let me know.

Thanks

...who got all the mono's available at his local corner guy shop, online....

 

[Jeff]

I broke down and descended upon my corner record store to acquire my second 45 of I BELIEVE YOU. A white label promo w/stereo on one side and mono on the other...I'm glad to know I'm not the "only one" who gets off on this CarpenterS collecting thing...But for $2.95 what 'r ya gonna do?

Still lovin records,

Jeff