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- Thread starter seashorepiano
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snapcrotch
New Member
seashorepiano
Active Member
I don't appreciate your rudeness in asking aloud where I'm headed with that entry. I apologize tremendously for not knowing about Ira Gitler's extensive output. I am fairly new to the CTI world, and for that matter, I'm only 19 years old. Sorry I wasn't born in the 1950s, where I probably would have known all this by now.
snapcrotch
New Member
seashorepiano
Active Member
I thought Gitler's notes to "Samba Blim" were well written. Evidently Gitler was very keen on the Tamba 4's music. He said in the first paragraph that the bossa nova era had *commercially* "come to an end," but the pioneers of the northern, light Brazilian sound were still persevering in their efforts. His notes touched me because he knew that Tamba 4's recordings were the real thing, real bossa nova, not just generic spin-offs that countless others recorded in the 1960s.
At any rate, I thought that this was a forum where people could bring up whatever they wanted that was pertinent to A&M. I don't think you had the right to attack me because I didn't say any more about Gitler right off the bat, but I simply wanted to discuss Tamba 4 and his notes eventually. That's all I have to say in the matter, and I won't be replying to this thread again.
At any rate, I thought that this was a forum where people could bring up whatever they wanted that was pertinent to A&M. I don't think you had the right to attack me because I didn't say any more about Gitler right off the bat, but I simply wanted to discuss Tamba 4 and his notes eventually. That's all I have to say in the matter, and I won't be replying to this thread again.
Dave -
You're being rather over-sensitive! I read your initial posting and wondered which part of it had accidentally been missed out. A question, or an invitation to discuss something might have made it more obvious that you wanted us to join in and discuss Gitler. Snapcrotch helpfully gave you some information you didn't have, but you instantly took offence where clearly none was intended.
I always find it best to read over my postings first just to make sure that what I've written can be clearly construed by someone who isn't plugged into my brain!
You're being rather over-sensitive! I read your initial posting and wondered which part of it had accidentally been missed out. A question, or an invitation to discuss something might have made it more obvious that you wanted us to join in and discuss Gitler. Snapcrotch helpfully gave you some information you didn't have, but you instantly took offence where clearly none was intended.
I always find it best to read over my postings first just to make sure that what I've written can be clearly construed by someone who isn't plugged into my brain!
seashorepiano
Active Member
Dave
Well-Known Member
seashorepiano said:
Well, I was pretty attracted to the CTi roster of Jazz artists, myself. Really wish a good reissue program could good reinditions of ALL the artists' material, including Bonus Tracks featuring Demo's and Unreleased Material.
I went from being fairly unfamiliar with the material at Age 19, myself, to eventually (though not CHEAPLY!) acquiring the entire catalog. Mind you, a bit of personal taste on the consistency of musical qualities of some of these artists gets in the way of KEEPING this series intact and consistent, for me anyway. And of course, a tendency to explore their catalog BEFORE being signed on this imprint and moving on to other labels afterwards, or in the case of Quincy Jones, becoming a regular non-CTi A&M artist, dumping his regular Jazz idioms and trademark sound. That is doing straight R&B (which was an admission that that's what this was ANYWAY, if it wasn't BE-BOP!).
And it was good music to hear (in place of MUZAK) at your local supermarket over the speakers.
Dave
...wishing, er, um, that we could just move this to The Jazz Forum...
seashorepiano
Active Member
No SSP... The jazz forum is where we discuss CTi, Horizon and other jazz aspects of A&M. We have multiple forums so it's easiere for people to find others and topics to discuss. I for one never go to the Carpenters forum. If there was only one forum I'd have to wade through 40 Carpenters topics to find one jazz topic of interest to me. So it's easier for all to if we have multiple forums.
I was only commending Harry for moving your discussion to where it would be most appropriate for all of us. Harry is a good monitor (don't want to to say policeman) of where things are posted and keeping them in their proper place.
I think it's great you brought up Ira's liner notes. One thing we've never discussed is how CTi's liner notes were a large part of the format of their releases. We have discaussed at length how Pete Turner's cover photos were an integral part of the style, look and mood of the CTi line, though. I'm up for a liner note chat!
The thing I like best about CTi's liner notes is the detailed musician credits years before the musician's union required it. And many of the session men listed there went on to amazing solo careers of their own (or at last CTi releases of their own) like Herbie Hancock...
--Mr Bill
I was only commending Harry for moving your discussion to where it would be most appropriate for all of us. Harry is a good monitor (don't want to to say policeman) of where things are posted and keeping them in their proper place.
I think it's great you brought up Ira's liner notes. One thing we've never discussed is how CTi's liner notes were a large part of the format of their releases. We have discaussed at length how Pete Turner's cover photos were an integral part of the style, look and mood of the CTi line, though. I'm up for a liner note chat!
The thing I like best about CTi's liner notes is the detailed musician credits years before the musician's union required it. And many of the session men listed there went on to amazing solo careers of their own (or at last CTi releases of their own) like Herbie Hancock...
--Mr Bill
Dave
Well-Known Member
seashorepiano said:Just a little curious (note that I'm new to this place), but why was it a "good move" to move this to the Jazz forum? I'm kind of mystified by the "deviations" possible to anyone in the thread... did I cause some trouble with this??
Well, these artists are Jazz Artists, that's all...I just thought The Jazz Forum was the right place to discuss The CTi series.
I just made a friendly suggestion to move it to the right forum, that's all...
Dave
Mr Bill said:Good move, Harry!
--Mr Bill
...and welcome back... How was the vacation?
Why thank you!
Vacation was a lovely, welcome respite from the ravages of this current winter. Visiting Florida in January for a person from the Midatlantic region is akin to Dorothy opening the door of her black and white house and seeing the Technicolor Land Of Oz outside.
Harry
...happy to be back in the swing of things online...
Dave
Well-Known Member
Harry said:
Kind of like Paul Desmond's SUMMERTIME cover. A classic photo of the ice and snow melting away into a new spring. And summertime coming along. Right behind it, anyway.
I haven't had a winter get-away to Florida for at least NINE YEARS!
Dave
...happy to see the Jazz Forum getting more attention, online...
Dave
Well-Known Member
Getting back to Ira Gitler, he penned good and inspiring notes for the A&M/CTi's, like Wes Montgomery's ROAD SONG ("This Is The Last...Be Glad We Have It!") and J.J. & Kai's ISRAEL.
Very knowledgable Jazz Critics critiqued the A&M/CTi roster quite well. And even some songwriters like Norman Gimbel, who wrote one of the commentaries on Antonio Carlos Jobim's WAVE.
Dave
Very knowledgable Jazz Critics critiqued the A&M/CTi roster quite well. And even some songwriters like Norman Gimbel, who wrote one of the commentaries on Antonio Carlos Jobim's WAVE.
Dave
seashorepiano
Active Member
Ira Gitler had a gift for writing notes for music that was either out of its time or was far ahead of it. Popularity seemed to mean nothing to him, the way he wrote liner notes for Samba Blim. As I said before, he wrote, almost elegiacally, that the commercial bossa nova era had ended. True enough, I think, given that the album was released in late 1968.
In terms of depth and thorough treatment of the artists, their history and music, I have to say that Leonard Feather takes the cake for his notes for Wanderley's "Moondreams." I can feel the spirit of 1969 when he says "Walter is a Taurus..."
In terms of depth and thorough treatment of the artists, their history and music, I have to say that Leonard Feather takes the cake for his notes for Wanderley's "Moondreams." I can feel the spirit of 1969 when he says "Walter is a Taurus..."
Dave
Well-Known Member
seashorepiano said:Ira Gitler had a gift for writing notes for music that was either out of its time or was far ahead of it. Popularity seemed to mean nothing to him, the way he wrote liner notes for Samba Blim. As I said before, he wrote, almost elegiacally, that the commercial bossa nova era had ended. True enough, I think, given that the album was released in late 1968.
In terms of depth and thorough treatment of the artists, their history and music, I have to say that Leonard Feather takes the cake for his notes for Wanderley's "Moondreams." I can feel the spirit of 1969 when he says "Walter is a Taurus..."
Hey, there's someone that can Write Right!! Him and Gene Lees can Review ANYONE ANYDAY!
Yes, I've got Gabor Szabo albums, some of whose liner notes have been penned by the great Nat Hentoff. But, Feather wrote the liner notes to Wes Montgomery's GREATEST HITS good enough to frame!
Just goes to show that Jazz was right where Liner Notes were still "in fashion", while Rock gave up on them in that time!
Dave
...Sun in Aquarius, Moon in Virgo, North Node in Pisces, Cancer Rising... :goofygrin:
seashorepiano
Active Member
Yes, I agree that Nat Hentoff was great. Gitler, Hentoff, and Feather had a great way about them to look in retrospect and with a sad emotional edge. They knew that an era of great music was coming to an end. Hentoff wrote great notes for Oscar Peterson's "With Respect to Nat" (King Cole, that is) on Verve. 
jimac51
New Member
Geez,someone reading this might think that these guys are gone or that their greatest moments in print were on A&M/CTI albums. Sure,Leonard Feather passed on a few years back,but these liner notes were small potatoes compared to things like inventing the Blindfold Test for Metronome magazine or putting together the "Encyclopedia of Jazz" books. Gitler at one time edited Downbeat,when it was possibly the most important source for jazz in printed word. He also picked up the mantle of editor for recent editions of Feather's "Encyclopedia of Jazz". And Hentoff just keeps going and going. Among his feats,he was associate editor of DownBeat in the 1950s,produced records for the Candid label in the '60s and has written numerous articles and books on non-music topics,especially First Amendment issues, civil liberites and teaching. His current jazz writing includes the last page of each issue of Jazz Times. Mac
seashorepiano
Active Member
Well? They're great A&M liner note-writers. I'm sure I can speak for a lot of people in saying that they had great influence elsewhere, and also did great work. (I'm just learning this about them recently, however.) I never meant to limit their finest hour to the CTi period, but I certainly think that their work enriched the class that niche of A&M had.
Dave
Well-Known Member
seashorepiano said:
I'd say the first Post-A&M/CTi albums had the influence of when CTi was affiliated with A&M. There's the first Hubert Laws album, CRYING SONG, which was intended to be a Stanley Turrentine album, but Laws stepped into the session instead and that was supposed to have been done on A&M/CTi's roster. So you should also hear CTi stuff AFTER the A&M affiliation, too.
Another great one is an obscure singer, Kathy McCord who did a very interesting LP of original stuff and a remake of The Beatles' "She's Leaving Home". There was another group, Flow, which included future Eagles Guitarist, Don Felder, which was a sort of Jazz-Fusion outing the label ALMOST became exclusively noted for, before the more straighter Jazz artists like Ron Carter, Freddie Hubbard, McCoy Tyner and Deodato started releasing their stuff. An offshoot label, Kudu has interesting stuff on it, too.
Dave
...glad to see The Jazz Forum FINALLY Getting More Postings or at least, more Attention...
seashorepiano
Active Member
seashorepiano
Active Member
I saw Kathy McCord's album a few months ago in a vinyl place in Boston. I was thinking of buying it but was low on dough at the time. Looks pretty good... I'd like to acquire the pop attempts Creed Taylor made at the time (Artie Butler, Flow, Tamiko Jones, and other one-offs) to see how he tried to allure people to jazz. Really, he did it in a classy way.
Dave
Well-Known Member
seashorepiano said:
Eh, MIZRAB is really my favorite of the two. RAMBLER is OK--least that one made it to CD. Afterwhich came MACHO released on another CTi Subsidiary, Salvation (there were SO many of them, eh?), which I have on CD with two bonus tracks--an extended version of the Title-Track and "Evening In The Country", a previously unreleased number that's been sitting in the vault.
Dave
...wondering exactly how MIZRAB should be pronounced...
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