HERB ALPERT & THE TJB CHRISTMAS ALBUM: Comments + poll

[Dave]

As a "Second-Favorite", I would like to nominate "Jingle Bell Rock"; as a near album-closer it does put this record in a very cheery mood, before the more sombre "Jesu, Joy Of Man's Desire..." And "Winter-Wondreland" starts off the album with a bounce--in fact a Christmas-3-Record-Set even has it, along with another Herb & TjB song, or two and even a couple by Julius Wechter & BMB "...Courtesy of A&M Records"! ...And it's nice to hear a chorus of "Twelve-Days Of Christmas" dropped in the song, as well... Last, but not least, what's Christmas without "The Christmas Song (Chestnuts Roasting on an Open Fire)"...? Herb sings out this one in a very under-rated style, which ranks with his other "vocal-songs..."


Dave

 

[Mike Blakesley]

Harry, in honor of you I am not going to listen to my copy until you get yours. So be sure to post when you get it.

 

[Harry]

Harry, in honor of you I am not going to listen to my copy until you get yours. So be sure to post when you get it.

Now that's just plain silly...

Go ahead and listen!

Harry

 

[Harry]

I've listened to both the BMB and TJB versions of "Las Mananitas" and as far as I can tell they're the same recording -- I hear NO difference.

I hear a big difference. Granted, it's the exact same arrangement, but the recording is different. There's more marimba (obviously) on the BMB, the trumpets are doubled at the end on the TJB.

There's a different placement within the stereo soundstage too. In the TjB version, the trumpets are centered in the mix, though laden with more reverb; there's not much marimba, but the chimes appear instead, and off to one side. There's also a string section on the end of the TjB version.

The BMB version's trumpets appear off to the right channel a bit, with Julius's more prominent marimba centered, and appearing instead of the chimes. And there's no string section at the end.

The two recordings synch up, timewise, indicating that they probably hail from the same base recording, but each was tweaked to bring out different nuances in the track.

Harry

 

[AudiophilePhil]

I like them all.

 

[Mike Blakesley]

Now that's just plain silly...

Go ahead and listen!

I was kidding.

But I really haven't listened yet. I'm really just waiting for the "Christmas season," I'm not sure of the exact starting date but I'll know when it hits.

 

[Harry]

Now that's just plain silly...

Go ahead and listen!

I was kidding.

But I really haven't listened yet. I'm really just waiting for the "Christmas season," I'm not sure of the exact starting date but I'll know when it hits.

I thought you were, but wanted to make sure.

The CD arrived today in the mail. I'm listening as I type this - it sounds great, and I'll attempt a more detailed comparison later on.

Harry

 

[Harry]

My first reaction to the audio as I compared it to the older A&M CD (3113), was that the older disc still sounded pretty good, well-balanced, with the proper highs and lows, all of the original hiss, etc. The new SHOUT! disc was about 3db louder, but other than that, seemed about the same.

...Until I realized that the two CDs wouldn't stay synched for very long. Comparing the total time of the discs, I noticed that the old disc from A&M was longer by nearly 30 seconds. So what was going on here? I kept having to stop the new disc to let the old one catch up. Finally I realized that the newer disc was speeded-up ever so slightly, nearly imperceptably so.

So I dug out the old original blue-cover LP to check the speed against these two discrepant CDs. Lo and behold, the new CD is at the same speed as the old ochre-label LP, staying in perfect sync with all of the side two tracks.

So now we have the answer to why ol' perfect-pitch Rudy hasn't been satisfied each year until he spins the CHRISTMAS ALBUM on LP. That old A&M CD was dragging a bit and just not registering properly in that brain of his!

Harry
NP: CHRISTMAS ALBUM - Herb Alpert & The Tijuana Brass

 

[Steven J. Gross]

My favorite song is "My Favorite Things"- a song I really don't care for- until Herb tweaked it into a gem...

 

[Numero Cinco]

… So I dug out the old original blue-cover LP to check the speed against these two discrepant CDs. Lo and behold, the new CD is at the same speed as the old ochre-label LP, staying in perfect sync with all of the side two tracks.

So now we have the answer to why ol' perfect-pitch Rudy hasn't been satisfied each year until he spins the CHRISTMAS ALBUM on LP. That old A&M CD was dragging a bit and just not registering properly in that brain of his!

Astounding deduction, Holmes!

 

[Rudy]

So now we have the answer to why ol' perfect-pitch Rudy hasn't been satisfied each year until he spins the CHRISTMAS ALBUM on LP. That old A&M CD was dragging a bit and just not registering properly in that brain of his!

That could be one of the reasons. Then again, a spinning tan A&M label on the turntable still has a certain something that CDs never had. Part of the tradition, IOW.

 

[sbsugar]

Ah, so YOU were the one, Captain....

You are so right about the signs in the cd aisles, we have a new supervisor and she still hasn't really gotten the hang of it.....

NJB

 

[David Kirkpatrick]

As always, the poll numbers are showing a few surprises. No votes for Jingle Bell Rock?! That was my favorite when the album first came out. It's probably the most "classic TJB" sounding of the whole works, what with the striptease-style ending and all. But this album is such an embarassment of riches, it's just too hard to pick ONE favorite. Too bad this board can't let us vote for multiples -- I'd pick 7 of the tracks.

Believe me, if I knew beforehand that no one would pick Jingle Bell Rock, I'd have gone to bat for it. I picked Sleigh Ride because the adaptation seemed to me the most original, although a case could also be made for the first three songs on Side 1.

Although this isn't my favorite TJB album by a long shot, I think it represents Herb at the height of his powers as an arranger and its my favorite Christmas album of all. (I guess that makes me very special among this crowd. ) What amazes me is that it's the "hippest" sounding Christmas album I've heard that still remains Christmassy. Compare them against Ella's "swingin'" rendition of Sleigh Ride and Jingle Bells and you realize how much more imaginative and jazzy Herb's versions are. And is there a version of Jingle Bell Rock that rocks more?

I also think Herb's version of The Christmas Song is underrated. The same virtues I would cite for this one probably apply to the rest of the album. The phrasing, singing and instrumentation minimize the sentimentality and emphasize the gentle wit of the song. The problem for a lot of performers is that the spirit or meaning of the Christmas season is over-defined, which can lead to music that wallows in sentimentality, reverence or pretentiousness. Maybe being Jewish helped Herb approach Christmas from a more oblique, subtle, ineffable angle -- also the fact that he is a southern Californian. (Part of what makes this album speical to me is that I am a Canadian, well acquainted with the cliches of dark, cold winter, but I was living in southern California when this album came out.) The very title "The Christmas Song" sounds like it's about the very essence of Christmas yet if you look at the lyrics, it's really about a lot of surface aspects of the season which are more juxtaposed than connected. Yet it ends with an emotional glow that can somehow compare with any other Christmas song (at least among the secular repertoire). It is not about the "meaning" of Christmas so much as its ineffable "spirit" -- or maybe in a kind of McLuhanesque way, it's about the meaning being its spirit.

Well, the relatively wispy (but not insincere) style of the performance brings out the lightness of those lyrics (lightness in a good way). Like the best performances in this genre, this album brings out the lightness of Christmas season, the side which has a universality that can appeal to the non-Christian and the non-religious and yet remains spiritual. Maybe part of this effect is from the break-out feeling one gets when a track moves from Shorty Rogers chorale to TJB riffs. (Yet there is even a certain jazz spirit in the acapella intros.)

Of course, the album ends in a different spirit entirely. In Jesu, the TJB part respectfully switches from Bacchus to Bach, no longer "breaking out" from the mood set by the chorale. Arguably, side 1 also ends in relative reverence -- it could be said that side 1 ends with a nod to southern Catholicism and side 2 with a nod to northern Protestantism. In that context, the rest of the album is like an eruption of secular cheer and universal generosity of spirit.

I've long believed that most pop music criticism suffers from what I would call the cult of authenticity. (Call it the Holden Caufield school of criticism.) That is, the notion that the greatest music is a kind of genuine primal scream that comes from real personal suffering or other deeply personal experiences (or at least folk memory). There is a kernal of truth to this, but it is also incomplete. The ability to imagine other people's experiences, a joyful curiosity about sounds and sensibilities that are initially alien or exotic to oneself is also a worthy inspiration to music (and other artforms).

Or maybe the cult isn't about authenticity versus imagination so much as it is about history versus geography. Serious artists comment on history; superficial artists comment on geography (they are mere tourists of other people's styles). That is the prejudice. But there is virtue in the broadness of one's musical geography just as in the depth of one's musical history. Just as there there may be as much virtue in a having a comic vision as a tragic one. (Whereas history is dominated by disappointments, geography is always pregant with potential -- whether one hopes for keeping nature pristine or developing it or replacing bad urban planning with good; geography is something we can return to, history is not -- so even the memory of a Golden Age is tinged with regret.)

So to anyone who would question Herb Alpert's "depth" as an artist I would counter with arguments about his "breadth", e.g. as a versatile explorer of styles and an imaginative arranger of an eclectic range of song sources. Although you couldn't reconstruct the history of the sixties from TJB music, you might be able to grasp a sense of it being more and more of a global village. Right now I see a record sleeve that says "Listen To Your World".

You might say that The TJB Christmas album explores Christmas as a place on the calendar and in the heart. With arrangements that make the familiar unfamiliar and then familiar again. It's about appreciating something from a distance, not just from autobiography. It's one of many follow-ups to "Going Places!"

David

 

[Mr Bill]

Holy Crap David!!! That was a well-written review and summed up so many subconscious truisms! Your review should be in the booklet! Hey, at least this one avoided a Josh Kun re-hash!

--Mr Bill

 

[DAN BOLTON]

Wow, all of that and it sounds good, too...



Dan

 

[Harry]

Thanks David. That was well thought-out and well-written. It makes me want to look up the other 14 posts you've written here!

Harry

 

[David Kirkpatrick]

Thanks for the encouragement, Bill, Dan and Harry.



I've never been much of a fan of pop music criticism because it seeems to tend to focus on lyrics more than music, which may be one reason the most successful pop instrumentalist has gotten short shrift. But I am working on a book on esthetics (theory of beauty) and a follow-up book I intend to write will apply the theory to a wide range of artists, both the under-appreciated and the justly-appreciated. Stanley Kubrick is the person I've written about the most (you can check out alt.movies.kubrick on Google Groups), but Herb Alpert is a case study I think about a lot.

Someone here recently asked something like what musician would someone be likely to enjoy if they enjoy Alpert. My thought was that my other favorite musicians and composers are all extremely different from each other (e.g. Beethoven and Stravinsky and Beatles and Eurythmics and Ellington and Monk and Rolling Stones...) Each seems to create a category that wouldn't have existed without them, rather than falling into a pre-existing category filled with enjoyable near-clones. What's interesting to me is how each type of music argues for a different set of esthetic criteria and demands to be appreciated on its own terms.

Rest assured, there will be more long-winded postings from me.

David

 

[Mr Bill]

Rest assured, there will be more long-winded postings from me.

To quote Rene Henderson (played by Toshiro Baloney) in Richard Elfman's The Forbidden Zone, "I can't wait!"

--Mr Bill

 

[Timeframe]

Wow. I must be weird. After hearing The Christmas Album for the first time in 37 years, I have to say it leaves me cold. It's not what I remember. And the vocals at the beginning of each track???, I have no memory of these. I won't go as far as to say that they detract from the numbers, but I certainly wasn't expecting them, and I will probably cut them from any car-bound CD that I create.

I'm sure these feelings have grown out of the knowledge that a great many of the "facts" I believed about "Herb Alpert & The Tijuana Brass" in my youth were mostly myth and marketing hype, and that the TJB really never existed, except in the necessary-evil "touring" form. They were a bunch of very talented studio musicians who wanted nothing to do with "public" side. Nowadays, I firmly believe that I don't hear Tonni Kalish on ANY of the albums - it was all Herb.

One significant injustice, one of the most talented marimba players, and songwriter heard on nearly every album, Julius Wechter, is not even credited as being there.

Maybe this is normal for the BIZ, but it's confusing and disappointing for us "fans".

I'm not always comfortable spouting negativity, but it's kinda how I feel now.

Steve

 

[DAN BOLTON]

It was common practice in the '50's and '60's for sidemen not to be listed in the liner notes of albums, unless they were small jazz combos; and the TJB was no exception to that rule. It probably wasn't meant as an oversight...it simply wasn't really done. Besides, it was obvious that it was Julius on the albums, anyway.

It also would have detracted from the BMB...people would expect Julius to be on the road with the TJB when he was busy with his own group. It was probably a mutual decision between Herb and Julius for him to appear on the TJB albums uncredited.

On the second generation Brass recordings, Julius was indeed identified as a member of the TJB. Of course, the BMB was disbanded by then...so no confusion.

Hope this explains a few things...



Dan

 

[PartyRico]

David, thanks for that wonderful review, you are a very talented writer, and I agree with another poster here, you should have participated in the liner notes themselves. If Herb or any of his "key" people reads your review they should consider using your vast talents. Thanks for sharing. Keep 'em comin'....

 

[Captaindave]

Wow. I must be weird. After hearing The Christmas Album for the first time in 37 years, I have to say it leaves me cold. It's not what I remember. And the vocals at the beginning of each track???, I have no memory of these. I won't go as far as to say that they detract from the numbers, but I certainly wasn't expecting them, and I will probably cut them from any car-bound CD that I create.

Steve

I have never liked the choral type vocals at the beginning of the tracks. Sorry; boring. Thank goodness those vocals are brief, and even as brief as they are, I usually fast forward past them. I like the variety of songs and arrangements on the album, but I think the vocals do, in fact, detract somewhat from the songs themselves. IMHO, those vocals could have been omitted from the original recording at absolutely no loss to the album whatsoever...I have never liked those and have always felt they were almost a nuisance.

 

[Mike Blakesley]

I've warmed up to the vocals over the years. The one I really dislike is "Sleigh Ride," but then that's my least favorite song on the whole album. You just can't beat the original orchestral arrangement on that one. (My favorite is the one recorded in the '50s by the Boston Pops.)

 

[AM Matt]

The Shout! Factory reissue of the Christmas Album read 32:03 of total time while the A&M label read 32:24 on the CD. What is the difference???

 

[Chinese Sausage]

I picked Sleigh Ride because the adaptation seemed to me the most original

I agree with David Kirkpatrick with the adaptation. I would like to add that the change of tempo in the song also made it more dramatic. I absolutely liked what Herb did with this song. Another track which I also liked is "My Favorite Things". The arrangements are similar to "Sleigh Ride".

I looked for this album on two stores (Tower Records and Second Spin), but none of them had it yet.