Lowest Note Hit by Karen
- Thread starter Karen4ever
- Start date
Once again, a low "E".
newvillefan
I Know My First Name Is Stephen
I stand corrected!! I figured I'd break away to A/B the two more seriously and you're right! The Occupants overdub is actually voiced an octave lower than I first assumed, putting the high note in B'wana 4 semitones above. Great ear and my apologies for the misinformation!
No worries Chris, that one vocal overdub has always stood out to me for years for some reason...a "chill factor" moment for me, always has been. I'm just glad I wasn't imaging things
I have a feeling then that this may be the highest note (certainly that I can think of) on record. Do you know what note it is Chris?
No worries Chris, that one vocal overdub has always stood out to me for years for some reason...a "chill factor" moment for me, always has been. I'm just glad I wasn't imaging things
I have a feeling then that this may be the highest note (certainly that I can think of) on record. Do you know what note it is Chris?
For Karen? It's a B flat for 2-1/2 octaves (approx.) above her lowest recorded.
In other words, that's a 32-note span @newvillefan 
JayJayVA
Well-Known Member
This is an interesting chapter "The Voice of Karen Carpenter" in the book "The Persistence of Sentiment: Display and Feeling in Popular Music of the 1970s" by Mitchell Morris (Univ of Calif Press).
He discusses her range & "Low E".
He discusses her range & "Low E".
andywithaz
Well-Known Member
In regard to Karen's upper range, Richard has this to say on their (moribund) website:
"We did use it every now and again for some arrangemental colorings. For example, you can hear it on 'here to remind you...' on the song 'I'll Never Fall In Love Again'. The second time it is sung, Karen and I cover three octaves; I go to a low F and Karen goes to a high F. That is her head voice. The thirds that are done underneath the second half of the sax solo in 'All You Get From Love Is A Love Song' also feature her head voice."
So, isn't a high F higher than the other notes mentioned in this thread?
"We did use it every now and again for some arrangemental colorings. For example, you can hear it on 'here to remind you...' on the song 'I'll Never Fall In Love Again'. The second time it is sung, Karen and I cover three octaves; I go to a low F and Karen goes to a high F. That is her head voice. The thirds that are done underneath the second half of the sax solo in 'All You Get From Love Is A Love Song' also feature her head voice."
So, isn't a high F higher than the other notes mentioned in this thread?
Chris, as a total non-musician I'm trying to get a sense of Karen's range and how it compares to other singers. A lot of what I see online mentions things such as "F3" and "D5", and I'm not sure how that relates to "high F" for example. There seems to be agreement on her lowest recorded note, but I'm not clear what her highest recorded note is. And I have no idea how that would be described using the letter/numeral format. I imagine my question confirms my total lack of musical knowledge, but I'm not too afraid of coming across as an idiot
Chris, as a total non-musician I'm trying to get a sense of Karen's range and how it compares to other singers. A lot of what I see online mentions things such as "F3" and "D5", and I'm not sure how that relates to "high F" for example. There seems to be agreement on her lowest recorded note, but I'm not clear what her highest recorded note is. And I have no idea how that would be described using the letter/numeral format. I imagine my question confirms my total lack of musical knowledge, but I'm not too afraid of coming across as an idiot
If I have some time a little later today, I'll work on a picture illustration of Karen's range with some specific songs.
To clear up some of the thread confusion, I believe the latest determination with Karen's lowest/highest recorded note is "D" below middle "C" as her lowest, and high "B flat" (heard in the backing vocal overdubs on B'wana - which is 4 semitones or "half-steps" higher than Occupants). I'll try and get to a clearer visual illustration a little later on.
On a piano keyboard, according to Chris' info above, this would be Karen's range:
Middle C is indicated, The note "C" on a piano is always the white note just to the left of the black-note sequence of two. This image starts a whole octave lower, and one whole step above id the "D below middle C".
Going above Middle "C", we can see another sequence of two black notes, so that octave again starts with High "C" - and almost another octave above that, I've indicated the High Bb".
Harry
Middle C is indicated, The note "C" on a piano is always the white note just to the left of the black-note sequence of two. This image starts a whole octave lower, and one whole step above id the "D below middle C".
Going above Middle "C", we can see another sequence of two black notes, so that octave again starts with High "C" - and almost another octave above that, I've indicated the High Bb".
Harry
On a piano keyboard, according to Chris' info above, this would be Karen's range:
Middle C is indicated, The note "C" on a piano is always the white note just to the left of the black-note sequence of two. This image starts a whole octave lower, and one whole step above id the "D below middle C".
Going above Middle "C", we can see another sequence of two black notes, so that octave again starts with High "C" - and almost another octave above that, I've indicated the High Bb".
Harry
And there you have it! And down where you see the low "D", go up two half steps and you have the low "E" that we've referenced often as the low note Karen sings in many of her other songs. You'll see why so many people mistakenly think they're hearing her sing even lower than in A Song For You. She's basically only one full step above, which is relatively close. Add that to the fact that her voice matured as the years went on, which added to the timbre being even richer as her voice developed on the later recordings.
Rick-An Ordinary Fool
Well-Known Member
I have to say that in all my years on this board I don't remember going into such technical details with regards to Karen's range and what songs they appear. The chart also helps me as well. Fascinating discussion.
According to Richard, the lowest note recorded was D3 (D below middle C) . The highest note was high F or F6. High F is the F above High C. High C is two octaves above middle C (C4) thus giving her a range of just slightly over three octaves.On a piano keyboard, according to Chris' info above, this would be Karen's range:
Middle C is indicated, The note "C" on a piano is always the white note just to the left of the black-note sequence of two. This image starts a whole octave lower, and one whole step above id the "D below middle C".
Going above Middle "C", we can see another sequence of two black notes, so that octave again starts with High "C" - and almost another octave above that, I've indicated the High Bb".
Harry
This most likely is located in I'll Never Fall In Love Again. I had a feeling she'd gone even higher that the other two notes we've been referencing in this thread, but couldn't remember off hand where. This would put her a fifth above the note I referenced in B'wana. Stay tuned...
Specifically, on the second "here to remind you-o-o-o. All this can be found on the Fans Ask section on the C's website.
That's exactly what I thought. Haven't listened to that track in quite a while. Thanks for clearing that up!
So, was the article below an octave off when they listed Karen's range as D3 to F5, putting her near the bottom of the list for vocal range?
The Vocal Ranges of the Greatest Singers (http://www.concerthotels.com/worlds-greatest-vocal-ranges)
The Vocal Ranges of the Greatest Singers (http://www.concerthotels.com/worlds-greatest-vocal-ranges)
Yes
That's too bad. I remember when I first saw that article how surprised I was that they listed Karen so near the bottom because I'd seen references to her impressive vocal range. It's a shame she wasn't given her just recognition.
Well don't put too much credence in articles like that anyway. Just having a wide range doesn't make a person a great singer. (Yes, I'm talking about you, Mariah Carey.)
song4u
Well-Known Member
Whoa, flashback to my 3rd grade piano lessons with Mrs Finch.On a piano keyboard, according to Chris' info above, this would be Karen's range:
Middle C is indicated, The note "C" on a piano is always the white note just to the left of the black-note sequence of two. This image starts a whole octave lower, and one whole step above id the "D below middle C".
Going above Middle "C", we can see another sequence of two black notes, so that octave again starts with High "C" - and almost another octave above that, I've indicated the High Bb".
Harry
I made a video showing Karen's lowest and higher notes, going from low to high notes through the three 'registers'. I'll try to explain the vocal registers:
Chest voice is a term used to describe the singing with the 'natural' timbre of a speaking voice. Upper Chest is a.k.a. the Belting register or Mixed register; the 'natural' sounding chest voice is pushed high where it takes on a shoutier sound. Think of Janis Joplin as an example. Finally, the 'Head Voice' which describes the register sounding like a 'hooting' owl or woodpigeon, or a lady Opera singer. Usually the voice people switch to in order to reach their highest notes. Much harder to phonate words (esp. consonants) in this register; Karen rarely did.
If I Had You does have a very low background vocal in the verse, the C an octave below middle C, and B'wana She No Home has an E-flat two octaves above middle C. I've tried to isolate hard to hear notes in as best way I can! Read the description for some reasons why Karen likely had a 'hybrid' voice- a 'Dugazon' voice and not a 'Contralto', and to find some other high and low notes...
Chest voice is a term used to describe the singing with the 'natural' timbre of a speaking voice. Upper Chest is a.k.a. the Belting register or Mixed register; the 'natural' sounding chest voice is pushed high where it takes on a shoutier sound. Think of Janis Joplin as an example. Finally, the 'Head Voice' which describes the register sounding like a 'hooting' owl or woodpigeon, or a lady Opera singer. Usually the voice people switch to in order to reach their highest notes. Much harder to phonate words (esp. consonants) in this register; Karen rarely did.
If I Had You does have a very low background vocal in the verse, the C an octave below middle C, and B'wana She No Home has an E-flat two octaves above middle C. I've tried to isolate hard to hear notes in as best way I can! Read the description for some reasons why Karen likely had a 'hybrid' voice- a 'Dugazon' voice and not a 'Contralto', and to find some other high and low notes...
