Made in America Recording Session
- Thread starter Rick-An Ordinary Fool
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Richard mentioned in the 'Mook' interview in the mid '90's that the songs remaining in the vault in some cases weren't finished (i.e.) instruments only, no lead vocal. If memory serves, "The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress" is one of those.
There are reportedly other tunes where only one verse was recorded, as well. Of course, we'd like to hear all of it, but I can at least understand why the one verse recordings didn't come out.
That being said, there are enough FINISHED ones (i.e.) 'All My Life' (not 'All of My Life') and "Why Don't They Understand?" were both completed tracks, amongst others that dated back to 1971. But, for some reason, those weren't included in 'As Time Goes By".
There are reportedly other tunes where only one verse was recorded, as well. Of course, we'd like to hear all of it, but I can at least understand why the one verse recordings didn't come out.
That being said, there are enough FINISHED ones (i.e.) 'All My Life' (not 'All of My Life') and "Why Don't They Understand?" were both completed tracks, amongst others that dated back to 1971. But, for some reason, those weren't included in 'As Time Goes By".
richard_sloat
Member
Hi All,
After one of Richard's great CPAC 1990's concerts ( long overdue for some new major RC concerts 2011/2012
) several fans / attendees asked Richard re : Made in America recording sessions, total number of tracks recorded, why it took so long to select, record, mix & master final album & which outtakes would Richard consider favourites & possible future releases :
Richard 's replies included :
Over 30 tracks were recorded as completed tracks : lead vocals only , some rough demos & several as backing tracks only ( approx 4 without any Karen or Richard vocals )
The sessions took longer due to selecting & writing new songs plus Karen's unexpected Wedding / married life & later with mixing & mastering delays
Other Richard favourites were : Leave Yesterday Behind ( now on ATGB)..... Peter Pan Moon ( sadly half complete vocals ) .....All My Life....All The Way ( Standard ) .....Richard mixed & mastered several additional MIA tracks during 1999-2000 : however just The Rainbow Connection was finally released ...
One of my favourites : "The Moon is A Harsh Mistress" : a marvellous Jimmy Webb composition was fully recorded & also "I Don't Need You" from 1978 album sessions is complete & in the vaults .....
From Richard's replies & other Carpenters sources there are enough 1980's studio tracks for one more Carpenters studio album & enough 1970's outtakes for another studio release : of course it all depends on the quality of vocals , arrangements & recordings : so far I cannot recall any "Bad " Capenters released songs : perhaps a few underpowered releases that reflect Carpenters health & personal issues at their time of recording or release ....
Definitely there are more releasable Carpenters studio -demo -television -radio -live tracks : Richard has mentioned in several interviews other favoured songs that he considered worthy of release ....we just have to convince Richard there is more good / great material due for release most likely via online / digital release & not Universal's very limited Best Of ....Greatest Hits ....Themed Compiliations sets ....that have become too frequent & recycled .....
Always something more to look forward towards .......
Peter UK
After one of Richard's great CPAC 1990's concerts ( long overdue for some new major RC concerts 2011/2012
) several fans / attendees asked Richard re : Made in America recording sessions, total number of tracks recorded, why it took so long to select, record, mix & master final album & which outtakes would Richard consider favourites & possible future releases : Richard 's replies included :
Over 30 tracks were recorded as completed tracks : lead vocals only , some rough demos & several as backing tracks only ( approx 4 without any Karen or Richard vocals )
The sessions took longer due to selecting & writing new songs plus Karen's unexpected Wedding / married life & later with mixing & mastering delays
Other Richard favourites were : Leave Yesterday Behind ( now on ATGB)..... Peter Pan Moon ( sadly half complete vocals ) .....All My Life....All The Way ( Standard ) .....Richard mixed & mastered several additional MIA tracks during 1999-2000 : however just The Rainbow Connection was finally released ...
One of my favourites : "The Moon is A Harsh Mistress" : a marvellous Jimmy Webb composition was fully recorded & also "I Don't Need You" from 1978 album sessions is complete & in the vaults .....
From Richard's replies & other Carpenters sources there are enough 1980's studio tracks for one more Carpenters studio album & enough 1970's outtakes for another studio release : of course it all depends on the quality of vocals , arrangements & recordings : so far I cannot recall any "Bad " Capenters released songs : perhaps a few underpowered releases that reflect Carpenters health & personal issues at their time of recording or release ....
Definitely there are more releasable Carpenters studio -demo -television -radio -live tracks : Richard has mentioned in several interviews other favoured songs that he considered worthy of release ....we just have to convince Richard there is more good / great material due for release most likely via online / digital release & not Universal's very limited Best Of ....Greatest Hits ....Themed Compiliations sets ....that have become too frequent & recycled .....
Always something more to look forward towards .......
Peter UK
Rick-An Ordinary Fool
Well-Known Member
Peter, your posts are always so inspiring and hopeful!! 
I never knew these were completed. If you are correct, it sure sounds like there would be enough for another Carpenters album but would Richard really call it the last studio album or even a real studio album, rather maybe the lost recordings or some other title may fit better.
Perhaps what we need is some sort of professional fan based letter or campaign to let Richard know the fans would like 1 last album from him. He is basically retired at this point and before we lose too many more years, the fans could have 1 last album of left over tracks. Then follow it up with a Christmas Portrait DVD set of selected tracks and then he can officially retire from Carpenters.
Seriously though, if enough fans respond he may just listen and take notice, however I'm not sure he is even accepting emails any longer through official website so how can we get this going?
PJ said:
I never knew these were completed. If you are correct, it sure sounds like there would be enough for another Carpenters album but would Richard really call it the last studio album or even a real studio album, rather maybe the lost recordings or some other title may fit better.
Perhaps what we need is some sort of professional fan based letter or campaign to let Richard know the fans would like 1 last album from him. He is basically retired at this point and before we lose too many more years, the fans could have 1 last album of left over tracks. Then follow it up with a Christmas Portrait DVD set of selected tracks and then he can officially retire from Carpenters.
Seriously though, if enough fans respond he may just listen and take notice, however I'm not sure he is even accepting emails any longer through official website so how can we get this going?
Geographer
Well-Known Member
I would love to hear thier versions of "The Moon is A Harsh Mistress" and "I Don't Need You" before I die (and I'm only 43).
Wow, what a fantastic album that could have been in '79 with these two songs plus "You're the One," "Where Do I Go From Here," and others recorded but not released at the same time or prior to the '78 sessions ("Ordinary Fool" particularly comes to mind).
Wow, what a fantastic album that could have been in '79 with these two songs plus "You're the One," "Where Do I Go From Here," and others recorded but not released at the same time or prior to the '78 sessions ("Ordinary Fool" particularly comes to mind).
Well, I certainly hope "The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress" and "I Don't Need You" see the light of day. I can't imagine why they haven't if they're complete. Then again, "Thank You For The Music" is also complete, and Richard won't put that out.
We should be thankful for what he HAS released, but if these tracks are sitting there on a shelf, they need to come out!
We should be thankful for what he HAS released, but if these tracks are sitting there on a shelf, they need to come out!
Geographer said:
Absolutely : these songs are among Carpenters best recordings & all were left off original studio albums for various reasons
Carpentersphiles need to remind Richard that despite his recent (last 7 years approx) over-critical attitude towards unissued material -these are some classic Carpenters recordings & many are better than tracks officially released
There are some great studio -television -live tracks & medleys that merit release & will not in any way diminish Carpenters musical quality or legacy
Peter UK
richard_sloat
Member
Dave60640
Active Member
With all the work, time, sweat and tears involved, I would be very surprised if RC resumed the finishing of the heretofore unreleased tracks. He is VERY aware and apprechiative of the fans continued interest in the work not yet released but, being retired, I'm not sure what could "kick-start" a new project.
As several have mentioned, if he does release anything it would be in the Japanese market where the project would be promoted and apprechiated the most.
But as many, many, many fans have wrote, an I-tunes download would be a sure-fire hit! And the only promotion needed would be a shout out on his website or a leak to one of us.
I would love to see MIA re-released (on I-tunes) in a complete -5.1 surround- format containing all the sessions we've discussed.
As several have mentioned, if he does release anything it would be in the Japanese market where the project would be promoted and apprechiated the most.
But as many, many, many fans have wrote, an I-tunes download would be a sure-fire hit! And the only promotion needed would be a shout out on his website or a leak to one of us.
I would love to see MIA re-released (on I-tunes) in a complete -5.1 surround- format containing all the sessions we've discussed.
SakuraSYayoi
Active Member
This issue about the MIA outtakes has been discussed several times here over the past ten years.And,I've known about "Mistress" since the 1990's.But,the bottom line is Richard has no intention of ever releasing these or any other outtakes.
Karen has been dead for 28 years,and at this point,this should be a closed issue.I know there are also completed outtakes from the Horizon,Kind Of Hush,Passage and 1978 sessions-And I would've(past tense) loved to have seen these released.But,here we are-2011-28 years after Karen's death,and there hasn't been a bonafide new Carpenters album in 22 years(Lovelines).
Richard stated during a PEOPLE interview in 1983(after the release of "Voice Of The Heart")that "There's enough for another album,and a Christmas album".The "another album" was "Lovelines" and the Christmas album was "Old Fashioned Christmas".He already knew,back in 1983,what he intended to release.And,aside from a few tracks that have surfaced on "Interpretations","As Time Goes By" and the boxed set,There's never been a bonafide brand-new album since "Lovelines".(Karen's solo album finally came out,but that decision was made by A&M-and half of that album was already released in the 80's,anyway).
Incidentally,2011 is the 30 anniversary of Made In America's release(June 9).If Universal had control over the Carpenter catalog,there's every possibility that they would've issued a 30th anniversary reissue with bonus tracks.But,as long as Richard holds control over the catalog,those outtakes will never be released.And,this is just a reality that so many die-hard Karen fans have to accept.
Karen has been dead for 28 years,and at this point,this should be a closed issue.I know there are also completed outtakes from the Horizon,Kind Of Hush,Passage and 1978 sessions-And I would've(past tense) loved to have seen these released.But,here we are-2011-28 years after Karen's death,and there hasn't been a bonafide new Carpenters album in 22 years(Lovelines).
Richard stated during a PEOPLE interview in 1983(after the release of "Voice Of The Heart")that "There's enough for another album,and a Christmas album".The "another album" was "Lovelines" and the Christmas album was "Old Fashioned Christmas".He already knew,back in 1983,what he intended to release.And,aside from a few tracks that have surfaced on "Interpretations","As Time Goes By" and the boxed set,There's never been a bonafide brand-new album since "Lovelines".(Karen's solo album finally came out,but that decision was made by A&M-and half of that album was already released in the 80's,anyway).
Incidentally,2011 is the 30 anniversary of Made In America's release(June 9).If Universal had control over the Carpenter catalog,there's every possibility that they would've issued a 30th anniversary reissue with bonus tracks.But,as long as Richard holds control over the catalog,those outtakes will never be released.And,this is just a reality that so many die-hard Karen fans have to accept.
As much as I hate to say it the user above me is right. I'm trying to handle the fact that we may not get any new material from Richard. It's sad considering the fact that there really could be enough material for 2 or 3 albums just for us audiophiles. But for sales wise, probably just one album and Richard most likely is just done with it all and doesn't want to release it. I'm really hoping I'm wrong though and Richard will go out on a limb one day and issue something on iTunes. Maybe all procedes go to the Japan disaster? Couldn't hurt.
Rick-An Ordinary Fool
Well-Known Member
Thank you Mr J for that hard dose of reality. 
I would hope it would never come a day when we pack in all in, close down the forums and stop wishing for any new song from Karen. Her death is a closed issue but the music should never be, we would not be fans if we did not wish or hope there was something on the horizon.
What a brilliant idea onjfan, I'm sure what's happened in Japan has hit close to Richard's heart, the world is watching. I hope Sakura is doing ok.
I would hope it would never come a day when we pack in all in, close down the forums and stop wishing for any new song from Karen. Her death is a closed issue but the music should never be, we would not be fans if we did not wish or hope there was something on the horizon.
What a brilliant idea onjfan, I'm sure what's happened in Japan has hit close to Richard's heart, the world is watching. I hope Sakura is doing ok.
richard_sloat
Member
It would be a good idea for RC to put every scrap of everything out there on iTunes. That way he'd have zero production/manufacturing costs, could rake in a few bucks, and the super-completists would be happy.
But, he's a bear for quality so it probably WON'T happen.
Another thing that could happen: The way technology is progressing, I could see where all of Karen's vocals (or those of any other singer who recorded on multitracks) could be digitized. Then, a piece of software would be able to make Karen's voice "sing" whatever words and in whatever melody was input by the user/composer/songwriter or whatever. I have a feeling this will happen. People will be able to write their own crappy songs and have Karen's voice "sing" them.
But, he's a bear for quality so it probably WON'T happen.
Another thing that could happen: The way technology is progressing, I could see where all of Karen's vocals (or those of any other singer who recorded on multitracks) could be digitized. Then, a piece of software would be able to make Karen's voice "sing" whatever words and in whatever melody was input by the user/composer/songwriter or whatever. I have a feeling this will happen. People will be able to write their own crappy songs and have Karen's voice "sing" them.
Dave60640
Active Member
Mr. J has a remarkable history for being insightful and correct. Especially when it comes to the "reality" of the situation(s). I, for one, thank you deeply for that!
I, however, remain ever vigilant in my pursuit of the MIA sessions (I loved the sense of renewal and vitality...despite the bread and butter album cuts.) And, as RC will attest, I have done EVERYTHING in my powers of persuasion to get him to re-do "Dance In The Old Fashioned Way" (1977) featuring Rich in place of JD. I am a persistent pest and have done everything shy of latching on to his leg and begging to get at least that one released. No shame in my game!
And to be completely honest, if I don't get to hear another released CarpenterS gem in my lifetime, it would be WORLDS better than another Justin Bieber (whatever) disaster. Nothing RC could release would IN A MILLION YEARS sound so desperate and lame...even it was only RC playing scales.
I, however, remain ever vigilant in my pursuit of the MIA sessions (I loved the sense of renewal and vitality...despite the bread and butter album cuts.) And, as RC will attest, I have done EVERYTHING in my powers of persuasion to get him to re-do "Dance In The Old Fashioned Way" (1977) featuring Rich in place of JD. I am a persistent pest and have done everything shy of latching on to his leg and begging to get at least that one released. No shame in my game!
And to be completely honest, if I don't get to hear another released CarpenterS gem in my lifetime, it would be WORLDS better than another Justin Bieber (whatever) disaster. Nothing RC could release would IN A MILLION YEARS sound so desperate and lame...even it was only RC playing scales.
Dave
Well-Known Member
I wish that my ROLLING STONE RECORD GUIDE had treated The 'Carps as a more "highly regarded act"... Maybe then Made In America would have gotten reviewed...
The writers/reviewers/critics are much too arbitrary when it comes to later albums by most artists, hence a number of artists' later works, like this, tend to be omitted (some I think which belong in those columns, but often they exhaust an entire artist's(s') earlier works that it would be pointless to extend an entry or re-write it, except maybe in some cases--which in "some cases", then they do...!)...
Not that it's any "artistic achievement", but it does "count"...!
Dave
The writers/reviewers/critics are much too arbitrary when it comes to later albums by most artists, hence a number of artists' later works, like this, tend to be omitted (some I think which belong in those columns, but often they exhaust an entire artist's(s') earlier works that it would be pointless to extend an entry or re-write it, except maybe in some cases--which in "some cases", then they do...!)...
Not that it's any "artistic achievement", but it does "count"...!
Dave
Actorman
Well-Known Member
I truly believe that we will get at least another track or two released from the vaults, but it will most likely be years before that actually happens.
We all love Karen the artist and want to hear every syllable she ever recorded. (At least I do.)
However, at the end of the day "Carpenters" is a business. It doesn't matter if there are two or twenty or even fifty unreleased tracks sitting in the vaults. Since Karen is gone, this number is finite. There will never be any more than what is there. These are valuable assets that Richard and A&M (Universal) have to manage very carefully, because once they've been released, that's it.
Carpenters are still steady sellers and continue to gain new generations of fans year after year. There is no need (from a business perspective) to release any vault material while the compilations still sell well.
I would bet money that Richard and Universal have at least a few release-ready tracks sitting there just waiting for the right opportunity to make the best use of them. This could be after a period of time when sales significantly slow down and need a little "boost." It could be in conjunction with some other future project that raises Carpenters' public profile for some reason. Sadly, it could be because Richard passes away. Who knows?
But, I would be very surprised if there was not a long term plan in place for at least a few more tracks to be released "when the time is right." It just makes good business sense. However, the "right time" could be five, ten, twenty years from now.
We all love Karen the artist and want to hear every syllable she ever recorded. (At least I do.)
However, at the end of the day "Carpenters" is a business. It doesn't matter if there are two or twenty or even fifty unreleased tracks sitting in the vaults. Since Karen is gone, this number is finite. There will never be any more than what is there. These are valuable assets that Richard and A&M (Universal) have to manage very carefully, because once they've been released, that's it.
Carpenters are still steady sellers and continue to gain new generations of fans year after year. There is no need (from a business perspective) to release any vault material while the compilations still sell well.
I would bet money that Richard and Universal have at least a few release-ready tracks sitting there just waiting for the right opportunity to make the best use of them. This could be after a period of time when sales significantly slow down and need a little "boost." It could be in conjunction with some other future project that raises Carpenters' public profile for some reason. Sadly, it could be because Richard passes away. Who knows?
But, I would be very surprised if there was not a long term plan in place for at least a few more tracks to be released "when the time is right." It just makes good business sense. However, the "right time" could be five, ten, twenty years from now.
ACTORMAN-you mentioned that Richard/Universal are waiting for the "right opportunity" to issue a new release.Well,that "right opportunity" occurred twenty-five years ago.Whenever any recording artist dies,the right time to issue new recordings is within a few years of their passing.("Voice Of The Heart","Old Fashioned Christmas" and the "Yesterday Once More" Anthology were all issued within two years of Karen's death.And,"Lovelines",originally scheduled for a Spring 1988 release,was issued in late 1989).
It's amazing how many supposedly die -hard Carpenters fans are on this forum,and yet no one seems to be listening to what Richard is saying!Over the years,Richard has tried to make clear in a very suble way what his intentions were,and no one seems to be paying attention.
In fact,If anyone has read the album notes Richard wrote for the discography on his website,you will quickly realize that not only does he not want to release any further outtakes,but he strongly regrets even releasing the four posthumous albums!(VOTH,Old Fash Christmas,Lovelines,Time Goes BY).He reiterates those feelings in the 40/40 liner notes.(although he does make honorable mention of three tracks:"Ordinary Fool","Little Altar Boy" and "Little Girl Blue")
While I don't share his sentiments with the posthumous albums(VOTH and Old Fashioned Christmas are exquisite,two of their best albums!),Richard has been very candid since Karen's death about the unreleased material.The "right opportunity" is long past,and K&R's album sales have been at an all-time low over the past several years.(has anyone thought about the fact that the fan club was disbanded less than six years after Karen's death.It would be a crazy idea to think that the fan club of a dead singer would still be in operation 30 years after her passing-sorry to say,the "Carpenters" are not a "business" any longer!)As I stated previously,this is just a hard reality that so many fans has to accept.
Also,I thinking about this issue with the "Made In America" outtakes after my last post.The fan club newsletter from Summer 1981 mentioned that many additional tracks were recorded for MIA and WOULD be included on the next album.However,Richard more recently stated on his website that If Karen had lived,they would have concentrated on new material,and not thought of those (outtakes) again.This seems to suggest that K&R decided,back in 1982,not to release those MIA outtakes.And,that would explain why there was no new album in 1982(there definitely coud've been).
It's amazing how many supposedly die -hard Carpenters fans are on this forum,and yet no one seems to be listening to what Richard is saying!Over the years,Richard has tried to make clear in a very suble way what his intentions were,and no one seems to be paying attention.
In fact,If anyone has read the album notes Richard wrote for the discography on his website,you will quickly realize that not only does he not want to release any further outtakes,but he strongly regrets even releasing the four posthumous albums!(VOTH,Old Fash Christmas,Lovelines,Time Goes BY).He reiterates those feelings in the 40/40 liner notes.(although he does make honorable mention of three tracks:"Ordinary Fool","Little Altar Boy" and "Little Girl Blue")
While I don't share his sentiments with the posthumous albums(VOTH and Old Fashioned Christmas are exquisite,two of their best albums!),Richard has been very candid since Karen's death about the unreleased material.The "right opportunity" is long past,and K&R's album sales have been at an all-time low over the past several years.(has anyone thought about the fact that the fan club was disbanded less than six years after Karen's death.It would be a crazy idea to think that the fan club of a dead singer would still be in operation 30 years after her passing-sorry to say,the "Carpenters" are not a "business" any longer!)As I stated previously,this is just a hard reality that so many fans has to accept.
Also,I thinking about this issue with the "Made In America" outtakes after my last post.The fan club newsletter from Summer 1981 mentioned that many additional tracks were recorded for MIA and WOULD be included on the next album.However,Richard more recently stated on his website that If Karen had lived,they would have concentrated on new material,and not thought of those (outtakes) again.This seems to suggest that K&R decided,back in 1982,not to release those MIA outtakes.And,that would explain why there was no new album in 1982(there definitely coud've been).
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