RICHARD : VILLAIN TO ANTI CHRIST ......

[Vinylalbumcovers]

Karen's solo album was eventually released, and it did nothing, either. So, in retrospect, they needed each other.

That is TOTALLY NOT fair. Karen had been deceased for thirteen years before it came out plus I read there were virtually no promotion for it. We CAN NOT KNOW how things would carry out if it was out in 1980. By 1996 it was a totally DATED sound and surely it would get no air play and stuff, it was just a relic. That was totally not the case for Richard's first album.

Agreed...big time! One cannot possibly be compared to the other.

Ed

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

Well, he did produced albums for other people.
Akiko Kobayashi's "City Of Angels" album in Japan, which was called just "Akiko", here in it's USA release, Veronique Beliveau's "Veronique" album that was only released in Canada (as far as I know).
I don't really know how these albums did in their respective countries, but I know that "Scott Grimes" self-titled album did flop here in the USA.

You've named two albums. There was another one, too, if I'm not mistaken. We're talking 3 albums in 27 years. He could have done so much more if he were so inclined. For whatever reason, his talents have essentially been dormant since Karen died. Why that happened, I have no idea. I only know it's a real shame.

I'm going to skip the rest since we're just going to go on in circles, here.

Danny

If you say so...

Ed

 

[Daniel Perales]

Karen's solo album was eventually released, and it did nothing, either. So, in retrospect, they needed each other.

That is TOTALLY NOT fair. Karen had been deceased for thirteen years before it came out plus I read there were virtually no promotion for it. We CAN NOT KNOW how things would carry out if it was out in 1980. By 1996 it was a totally DATED sound and surely it would get no air play and stuff, it was just a relic. That was totally not the case for Richard's first album.

Let me put it another way:

In 1987, the tv movie "The Karen Carpenter Story", has made people regain some interest in them after it's initial airing.

Then in 1989, the album "Lovelines" was released, which contains some of the songs from her yet unreleased solo album. In 1991 their compilation set "From The Top" had two more unreleased songs from her solo album. People were really giving Richard an earful that they wanted to hear more from her solo effort. So, her album was eventually released in 1996.

So much for demand after years of built-up.

Richard's solo album, seems to appear out of nowhere, then disappeared like it never existed. In fact, it was the single "Something In Your Eyes" that was playing on the radio, is when I first became aware of it. It took me a few weeks to find the CD, afterwards.

The funny thing was, people though that it was coming from a new Dusty Springfield album, or it was a track of one of the Pet Shop Boy's album, since she also made a vocal appearance on one of their hits.




Danny

 

[Daniel Perales]

Well, he did produced albums for other people.
Akiko Kobayashi's "City Of Angels" album in Japan, which was called just "Akiko", here in it's USA release, Veronique Beliveau's "Veronique" album that was only released in Canada (as far as I know).
I don't really know how these albums did in their respective countries, but I know that "Scott Grimes" self-titled album did flop here in the USA.

You've named two albums. There was another one, too, if I'm not mistaken.

Ummm, I did mention the third album. Reread it, again.

We're talking 3 albums in 27 years. He could have done so much more if he were so inclined. For whatever reason, his talents have essentially been dormant since Karen died. Why that happened, I have no idea. I only know it's a real shame.

His talent wasn't dormant at all. People (at least the hard-core Carpenters fans), just wasn't interested in anything else he would put out, if there were no Karen.

And you're right. It is a real shame.



Danny

 

[cam89]

But it's not people's fault if they don't like what he put out, namely the 3 albums...as well as his solo efforts, which goes to show...Karen was the star!! Without Karen, well...people will buy an album with her vocals and will do really well!!!

Maybe he has to change, and go with the flow. If it doesn't work, then it doesn't! His and Karen's sound cannot be duplicated, and that is why Karen chose much different songs (for her solo songs) than what he put out for the Carpenters...

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

His talent wasn't dormant at all. People (at least the hard-core Carpenters fans), just wasn't interested in anything else he would put out, if there were no Karen.

And you're right. It is a real shame.

Danny

5 albums in 27 years (3 others plus his 2) qualifies as dormancy to me. Remixing and re-compiling stuff he already did doesn't really constitute bustling activity. My point is that he could have been so much more. Why he wasn't is a real mystery.

Ed

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

Karen's solo album was eventually released, and it did nothing, either. So, in retrospect, they needed each other.

That is TOTALLY NOT fair. Karen had been deceased for thirteen years before it came out plus I read there were virtually no promotion for it. We CAN NOT KNOW how things would carry out if it was out in 1980. By 1996 it was a totally DATED sound and surely it would get no air play and stuff, it was just a relic. That was totally not the case for Richard's first album.

Let me put it another way:

In 1987, the tv movie "The Karen Carpenter Story", has made people regain some interest in them after it's initial airing.

Then in 1989, the album "Lovelines" was released, which contains some of the songs from her yet unreleased solo album. In 1991 their compilation set "From The Top" had two more unreleased songs from her solo album. People were really giving Richard an earful that they wanted to hear more from her solo effort. So, her album was eventually released in 1996.

So much for demand after years of built-up.

Again, the material was dated. The stuff that was going on in 1989 and 1991 had nothing to do with what was going on in 1979 and 1980 when the record was recorded. Perhaps more importantly, it was the work of an artist who was no longer alive. She couldn't promote the project. Richard could promote his records and they still did nothing.

Ed

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

Again, the material was dated. The stuff that was going on in 1989 and 1991 had nothing to do with what was going on in 1979 and 1980 when the record was recorded. Perhaps more importantly, it was the work of an artist who was no longer alive. She couldn't promote the project. Richard could promote his records and they still did nothing.

Good point and I agree. Had her solo album been released I'm quite sure she would have promoted the heck out of it since she was so fond of the project even thinking about it the day before she died with Phil. Look at all the solo photos she took and all the money she spent, I still feel it's possible she taped a video segment of one of her solo songs on Olivia's special Hollywood Nights yet was pulled before the showed aired, of course only my opinion.

There is an artist today that I just don't like her vocals and I just don't feel she has a quality voice, maybe it's because Karen sets a standard for me. Yet everytime I turn around she is on the tv or when I do turn on the radio there she is, she is promoted like heck and yet for me (my opinion) I don't care for her voice, this would be Taylor Swift. Her voice does nothing for me yet she is promoted like heck. We all know that when an artist gets behind their work and they have the right promotion stuff happens.
Who knows how the public would have taken Karen's solo album but I think with her promoting it, talking about it on the talk shows, doing a early summer tour, she would have brought in an even larger fanbase. Karen was so upbeat it was contagious being around her. It could have worked.

I still think Richard could have done what Karen had mentioned by scoring films or finding his own identity as well. I still can't understand to this day why they couldn't do things separtely but still be together, like Karen suggested on GMA. Why did it have to be one or the other?

 

[richard_sloat]

Yeah... you can't even blame it on the family thing. I was rereading Little girl blue this afternoon and Frenda Leffler (or was it Evelyn Wallace? I hardly ever pay attention to which one it is, they are so REVEALING and thus undistinguishable for me, LOL) mentioned the Osmonds... that Mike Curb produced Donny Osmond solo records as well as Donny & Marie records... and Donny was still a part of the Osmonds, right?

 

[DowneyDiSampson]

Re: Taylor Swift - She sings out of tune. Repeatedly.

Re: The Osmond question: Yes, Donny was still with the Osmond Brothers. The same thing happened with Michael Jackson.

 

[richard_sloat]

And the Carpenters were "little leaguers" compared to the Osmonds when it came to family dominance and power over them, according to Frenda Wallace or Evelyn Leffler, LOL. It was all about families!!

 

[Dave]

The same could be said for The Jackson 5ive...!!!!



Dave

 

[Mike Blakesley]

People were really giving Richard an earful that they wanted to hear more from her solo effort. So, her album was eventually released in 1996.

So much for demand after years of built-up.

You also have to wonder how many requests Richard got from people. Even if he got 50,000 requests, and each of those people bought a copy of the solo album when it came out, that's still poor sales for a Carpenters-related project and not enough to keep it in the catalog.

It's not like millions of people were ever clamoring for this album, even when it was first made.

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

At least A&M didn't have to put any real money into it. All they had to do was master it, package it, and release it. As mentioned earlier, they could only do limited promo as Karen was no longer alive. Very little risk for A&M when it came to putting the album out.

Ed

 

[A&Mguyfromwayback]

I wonder if RIchard and John Bettis have ever considered writing a musical together - so many other pop writers have made transitions into theater, some with great success (others not)....

 

[DowneyDiSampson]

I wonder if RIchard and John Bettis have ever considered writing a musical together - so many other pop writers have made transitions into theater, some with great success (others not)....

Well, John's been doing VERY well on his own, of course. ("Human Nature" being on "Thriller" must have paid for a nice house!)

Richard DEFINITELY could have done film scores or musicals. I will never understand why he didn't do something like that. (I think there's an emotional reason, but what do I know??!)

 

[coco]

It think that Richard could work with someone like Twyla Tharp and they could do a show similar to what Twyla did with Billy Joel's or Frank Sinatra's Music.
HE could also do a story built around the songs like what ABBA did with MAMAMIA.
RIchard doesn't seem to socially move in the circle with a lot of movers and shakers in the industry.
IT seemed like a lot of the people like Olivia Newton-JOhn and Barry Manilow, Terry Ellis and the like were more Karen's friends than Richard's.

 

[DowneyDiSampson]

Yep. Richard pretty much focuses on his family, I think. He is an introvert, for sure.

 

[manofsteel1979]

[Off-topic material removed]

I also don't get the anger at him for his tinkering with the Carpenters recordings.Yeah,it gets annoying to us fans who prefer the original mixes of their recordings,but so what?What he is doing is trying to keep their catalog fresh for those just discovering their recordings.Odds are,most of the general CD buying public don't care that a majority of tracks on "GOLD" or "40/40" are remixes,They want to hear Karen's voice,and that is what they get.Plus,I would much rather have Richard be the one to do the remastering/compiling/mixing than, say, some console geek somewhere who has no connection to the originals.It's his music after all.We don't have to like it,or buy it,but jeez,leave the guy alone,OK? Richard Carpenter is not the villain or hero of the story,he just is part of the story.He and Karen gave us a catalog of great music.Why not focus on that rather than whether or not he secretly has the mark of the beast on his forehead?

 

[DowneyDiSampson]

manofsteel - Will you marry me? ; ) Your post was well thought out and brilliant. You said everything I would have, thereby saving me the trouble. BRAVO!

 

[manofsteel1979]

manofsteel - Will you marry me? ; ) Your post was well thought out and brilliant. You said everything I would have, thereby saving me the trouble. BRAVO!

Wow...I'm on here a day and I'm already getting marriage proposals.To heck with e-harmony! A&M Corner is the best place to get chicks! Seriously,though,Diane,thank you for the vote of confidence in my remarks.I'm just so sick and tired of the vilification of Richard Carpenter.The man is not a saint,but he helped give us some of the best music of the later 20th century!He certainly deserves more respect than he gets from some people.One thing to think about is what would Karen have thought of the outright vile things that have been said about her brother.She adored Richard very much and to hear people blame him for her decline would have hurt her deeply,especially coming from her fans,whom by all accounts she loved very much.We all hate that she is gone.It f**king sucks.Hell,I'm a 30 year old guy who was just three when Karen died and didn't become a true fan until about 7 years ago,and I get teary eyed when I think of how she left us.However,to channel that grief and sadness by turning it to anger and vitriol against a man most of us don't even know is beyond me, and if you ask me,is a disgrace to Karen's memory. OK,there,rant over. Now,I'm going to listen to "Horizon" and mellow out a bit.

 

[DowneyDiSampson]

You do that. I'll be working on the guest list! ; )

 

[manofsteel1979]

[Non-topic content removed]

As for Karen being the star,I couldn't agree with you more!It was her voice that drew me too their stuff,and it is her voice that is the primary reason I still and will always listen to it.Karen was the star,period.However,some tend to belittle Richard's part in the Carpenters story,and in my mind,to do so is a detriment to Karen's legacy.

 

[manofsteel1979]

But this is a guy, who for nearly 20 years now, has kept the "Carpenters" name out there and alive with more compilations and box sets than original albums, remixing, tinkering and trying to provide the audience with the best possible sound. That's someone to admire and encourage - not someone to cast aspersions on as if he's something nearly criminal in nature.

I also agree with this.As I stated over on my thread,after that fate full late night drive when I heard "Only Yesterday",I went out the next day and found and bought "GOLD".That album still stands as my favorite,even though I have come to prefer the original mixes more than the remixes.Why? Because that compilation made me fall in love with the music of the Carpenters.It was the entry vehicle to start looking for all their stuff.It made me fully aware of the scope of their music and I realized I had to have all their music.At the time,I didn't know or care if they were remixes.All I knew was that this was some incredible music wrapped around the greatest female vocalist in pop music history.If it wasn't for "Gold" and projects like that,people like me would have probably not discovered the Carpenters.It keeps the music alive,and reintroduces it to a new generation.These compilations are not really meant for us fans who have all the original albums.It's meant for that guy or gal that is driving home one night and discovers that voice and wonders "Who is THAT?",then goes to their local Walmart or Best Buy to find more.Bam."Gold",Bam "40/40". etc.The bottom line is,if the remixes offend you that much...DON'T BUY THEM!!!!.It's Richard's music,after all.He has the right to tinker with it as he wants.Besides,chances are,if Karen were still alive,SHE would be in the studio with him working on the remixes!Being the perfectionist she was,she probably would have gone back and rerecorded new vocals on most of them at her own behest! After all,she did it with "Ticket to Ride" in 1974 and "Merry Christmas Darling" in 1978. I can only imagine the uproar of some of us purists if this indeed had taken place!!!

 

[Mike Blakesley]

With all due respect to the people who have been posting about Karen's various medications and medical conditions, etc. -- this forum is not about that, it's about the music, so some of those posts have been removed and/or edited. These topics are off limits at A&M Corner due to their personal nature. We intend to protect the personal lives of our favorite artists -- even if they have passed on.

So please, posters are gently reminded to keep the focus on the music and the topic.