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VOLUME 2, WARM and THE BRASS ARE COMIN' on iTunes!

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Like I said, if I was 18 again and was big on internet music, I might be excited, but as far as I'm concerned, an internet only release of these titles is a kick in the face after all this time and fanfare.

David,
 
I'm not a #$%^%$ *(** teenager any more

Guys. iTunes is not just for teenagers. You can buy 1940s music on there. Lawrence Welk and Guy Lombardo have material on it. Hugo Montenegro. Sergio Mendes. Ray Coniff. Edu Lobo. And Herb Alpert.

Perhaps the thinking was: These albums were not big sellers in their day, in fact they were disappointments. So it makes some kind of sense to put them on iTunes, where the manufacturing cost is nil and the potential for profit is high. Goldwax is going to provide us with hi-quality artwork to post here, so you can download it and print it. And the price of these albums (if you buy the whole album) is $9.99, which is $4 less than the CD versions of the other releases.

We went from zero availability of this music to a somewhat compromised availability that's 90% of what we all want....that's a lot better than nothing.
 
First the initial shock of hearing they "just popped up" on iTunes, then a
nebulous message that somehow plants a seed of doubt or a possibility
of some sort of wait for the CD's. I am with thetijuanataxi and Harry in that I have some big time disappointment goin' on. These long awaited albums deserved a big next phase buildup to get some sort of momentum going. I hope that is indeed still to come!

I decided to download "WARM," as it looks like some of you probably have done. I've already had a pretty close listen to the album and 10 out of the 11 tracks sound pretty good. The biggest disappointment for me was the one I waited for the most...Track 1 "The Sea Is My Soil!" I pray it is simply my computer or my internet connection! Please tell me that the tape they used hasn't deteriorated that badly. On the initial sections of the song the bass line and lower frequencies are distorted pretty bad ala "Our Day Will Come" and one other "S.R.O." track that comes to mind. In fact it is worse than on older album. Then comes the fade out
that seems botched in how fast it clips at the end of the fade. Once again I pray it's my computer gear or just the nature of downloading music this old. :mad:

The rest of the album sounds quite good, though the fade on "Zazueira" is a bit clipped.

Do any of you have the same issues with the download of "WARM"???
 
I just purchased all three albums from itunes, and just listened to all three. Wow!! Anything I say would be an understatement. Thanks again to Herb for more brilliant work!!

Of course I would buy the CDs if they come out as well.
 
iTunes offers nothing that a good needle drop can't better. It's a compressed, sterile, and artless representation of the music as far as I'm concerned. Okay for my PC or boombox, but not for the multi thousand dollar system I have at home. I'm sorry to be a downer, but until we get news about CD reissues of these titles, as far as I'm concerned, we're no farther along than before this "news". We deserve better.

David
 
First of all... I want to say thanks to Shout Factory for all of the CD releases up to this point. I've been absolutely delighted with them. I'm even glad to see them (and now these others) appearing on iTunes. A lot of people may see them there, who wouldn't otherwise. I think that's a good thing.

That said, I have yet to buy anything off of any download-only music store. Even though I've ripped all of my CDs using iTunes (at a higher quality than Apple uses, mind you), and regularly listen to my music more through my computer and iPod now than off of CDs, I'd much rather pay for and own a CD, than a pre-compressed downloaded copy. At least with my CDs, I can re-rip my original discs as compression algorithms improve. Plus, I like having the CD case, artwork and liner notes. I enjoy opening them up when I get them. It's a palpable, visceral part of enjoying music. At least to me it is.

I'd gladly pay more for a limited-edition CD release, than get the albums off of iTunes. I've paid $50 (and up) for imports of CDs unavailable in the U.S., and they were worth every penny.

There are far more obscure artists and albums out there on CD now. I hope that Shout Factory considers at least a limited release on CD for those of us willing to pay for them. After all, if Rhino can regurgitate The Monkees' catalog yet again, certainly Herb Alpert's work deserves at least that much consideration.

I do hope the iTunes versions sell well. I hope they sell well enough for Shout to recognize their value. But I'm not sure I'll be buying them that way.
 
I listened to all three of the iTunes versions of the albums tonight.

I agree slightly with Bullish '84 about "The Sea Is My Soil." There is some tape hiss, and the fast parts of the song don't seem to have as much punch as my very-good needle drop does. The rest of the album sounds very good to excellent. A couple of the fades do sound a bit rushed, but I don't think any actual material is cut off.

The real eye-openers for me were the other two albums, VOLUME 2 and THE BRASS ARE COMIN.

I had never heard V2 before all the way through in its proper sequence. I had it in the early 70s on an 8-track tape, which had the songs mixed up of course and...well, it was an 8 track. I tossed it off after one or two listens as a LONELY BULL rehash at the time. Wow, was I wrong. The album is excellent! I can see why people call it a party album, the mood on it is exuberant. I'm not sure why Herb found it not to his liking, unless it was the over all sound of it which IS a little harsh compared with the later TJB albums. But I was fully prepared to listen once (again) and then file it away....but I like this album a lot.

I was much more familiar with THE BRASS ARE COMIN, but my only copy of it was a well-worn LP which I converted to CD. Even after running the Sound Forge filters over it to remove the ticks and pops, I was still left with a lot of groove distortion...not much to do about that. Listening to the remaster, I was stunned how good it sounded in comparison. Like having a thick towel lifted from in front of a speaker. The album is one that I've never considered a favorite, but I enjoyed it a ton more now that it sounds so much better. The only real "problem" I can find with it is, the song "The Brass Are Comin" has its beginning faded-in for some reason.

The posts above probably reveal most of the reason why these albums were placed on iTunes rather than on CD, for now at least. To you holdouts...if you're happy with the version you have, fine. If not, don't feel as if you're selling out if you download'em. The sound in general is very good, and good iTunes sales may very well lead to a CD release somewhere down the road.
 
Stephen Vakil said:
Mmmmm....... Just visited the UK iTunes site and it says that Warm (I haven't checked the others) isn't available on the UK site. My UK details won't log me in to the US site and from what I've seen I can't open a US account.

Oh great.

Stephen's post offers us at least a little hope. That is, if these masters are already "in the can" so to speak, then there's hope that some other territory like the UK or Japan might master and release them on a CD.

That's not to diminish Stephen's disappointment. I've felt THAT pain too, A recent Corrs single with a unique song was recently only released to "the rest of the world" on the Internet and US buyers were excluded. That's the way the music industry is fighting overseas purchases out-of-territory, apparently.

Harry
 
I feel dirty... I just downloaded Warm... I hate myself... this is my first time to buy a music file over the internet. Disgusting. Why is Herb making us do this? Is it a test? Disgusting experiance. First and last time.

Mike
 
Mike said:
I feel dirty... I just downloaded Warm... I hate myself... this is my first time to buy a music file over the internet. Disgusting. Why is Herb making us do this? Is it a test? Disgusting experiance. First and last time.

Mike

I know the feeling. Mike, you're based in Japan, so were you able to download it because of perhaps a US account?

Harry
 
I feel left in a position where I have no option but to download these albums from iTunes just in case the CDs never materialise. If the CDs are in the pipeline to be released soon, then I feel that this ploy of teasing us into buying the iTunes versions first is nothing short of disgraceful.

It appears to me that the loyal Herb Alpert fans are being ripped-off here and I am surprised and disappointed that Herb has a hand in this approach.

Len
 
My sentiments exactly. The've already been painstakingly remastered according to the press release, so why can't they give us SOME indication of when or if they'll be released instead of only mentioning RISE. Perhaps if we knew they WERE coming soon, we could relax about the iTunes deal. They know more than they're telling us and they chose to leave us hanging with these three LONG awaited albums only being released in do-it-yourself Omega Records-like kit form with homemade jewel cases and inserts. Very disappointing.

David,
hoping "Tomorrow Will Be Better"..........
 
lswilson99 said:
I feel left in a position where I have no option but to download these albums from iTunes just in case the CDs never materialise. If the CDs are in the pipeline to be released soon, then I feel that this ploy of teasing us into buying the iTunes versions first is nothing short of disgraceful.

It appears to me that the loyal Herb Alpert fans are being ripped-off here and I am surprised and disappointed that Herb has a hand in this approach.

Len

On reflection (assuming that Rise is the first of the second phase of CD reissues) I will wait until we see what follows Rise. If that happens to be HA Solo Albums, then I will download V2, Warm and TBAC from iTunes.

Len
 
Harry said:
Mike said:
I feel dirty... I just downloaded Warm... I hate myself... this is my first time to buy a music file over the internet. Disgusting. Why is Herb making us do this? Is it a test? Disgusting experiance. First and last time.

Mike

I know the feeling. Mike, you're based in Japan, so were you able to download it because of perhaps a US account?

Harry

Harry, I had no problem, when I installed itunes (first time today), I just kept clicking "Yes" to everything and eventually, I had Warm & The Brass Are Comin' down loaded.

Burned them both to CD so that I could listen to them on my stereo. I hate terms like "BETTER THAN NOTHING" or "GOOD ENOUGH"... but, here I am.

Thanks for asking.

Mike
 
Mike, I only asked because of Stephen Vakil's situation above. He's based in the UK and is "frozen out" of the US iTunes system. I'm wondering why you, in Japan, would be able to get in - unless your credit card and/or address are based in the US somewhere.

Now, enough of my negatives, and I'm going to focus on the positives. I've just now done a side-by-side comparison of the new iTunes version, that I put on a CD, and my old CD-R made from a clean LP and "cleaned" a bit further to remove some of the minor surface noise. That old CD-R had served me well over the years and remains my benchmark against which all other versions will be judged.

The new iTunes version is "punchier" sounding to me, with a better bass presence. I also hear greater stereo separation than the LP provided. Yeah, I hear some noise and distortion on (for me) the key track of "The Sea Is My Soil", telling me that the master tapes have not held up as well as we would like.

Though I'm still not thrilled that these are lossy downloaded files, at least I can say that most of them sound pretty good, at least on the WARM album.

Just for fun, I might do one or both of the other albums, just to compare the sound.

Harry
 
I just re-read what I posted last night in reaction to the news that the new re-releases will not be available on CD... and I apologize for my bad writing and slight incoherence! Emotions got the best of me, I suppose.

I'm glad that some of you feel the way I do -- that when I pay money for something, I don't just want a file on my computer. I want something I can hold in my hands and look at, with liner notes to read and uncompressed sound to hear. A 20-year-old might not think anything of paying $10 for a downloaded album, but for people my age (I'm 37) and older, it does indeed feel a little "dirty."

And what's the deal with the record companies trying to convince us for 20 years to buy the same music over and over again in endlessly remastered upgrades, and then suddenly telling us that sound quality doesn't matter, it's all about convenience? That's surely news to those of us who have bought pricey stereos to hear all those incremental sonic improvements.

That said, I listened to "Warm" in its entirety for the first time last night, and I was really blown away. What a gorgeous album -- more of a Brazilian influence than Mexican, and sounding more assured and relaxed than any album since "Sounds Like." Now I understand all the clamor I've read here to re-release it!
 
Harry said:
Mike, I only asked because of Stephen Vakil's situation above. He's based in the UK and is "frozen out" of the US iTunes system. I'm wondering why you, in Japan, would be able to get in - unless your credit card and/or address are based in the US somewhere.

Harry

Harry, yes, I do have a U.S. credit card and a U.S. military mailing address. Does it make a difference? I don't know.

P.S. the itunes version of Warm and TBAC is better than my needle drop versions. Better or worse, I am better off.

Best regards,
Mike
 
Let's not forget one key thing here: in a situation like this where the artist owns and controls the masters, Shout Factory can only release what they are allowed to, and in whatever format they can convince the artist or management to release them in. From what I'm hearing from a well placed source, having these available on iTunes is the best compromise they could get. There is no plot to "trick" anyone into buying two versions--there's every indication these will be the only versions we'll ever see.

The only optimism I can offer: maybe if the iTunes sales are brisk enough, it might convince someone enough to put them out as CDs. But facing reality, think about it: these three albums were not good sellers. Volume 2 only had good sales as it was pulled up by its bootstraps when the other albums started to climb so high on the charts. Yes, I know that other apparently obscure albums are released on CD, but each of these has to be looked at on a case-by-case basis. And in the end, these reissues have to SELL in order to be worthwhile. Having reissues like these on iTunes at least means we can get access to them, and since there is no manufacturing cost, it is easier for labels to take a risk by putting them up as a downloadable sale.

There are other labels out there doing download-exclusive reissues. Verve (another favorite label of mine) is one of them, and I believe this is true of many of Universal Music Group's labels. I guess we should be fortunate we see these releases at all--some of these albums have been unavailable for decades, and would be such marginal sellers in CD format that it would have been a money-losing venture to push them out to manufacturing and then have to try to market them, with an unknown return on the investment.

As for the sound quality on "Warm": I can't answer that. All I can hope is that the album was not mixed on that problematic Ampex 456 tape that had the "sticky shed" problem (where the oxide coating is coming off as the tape is played). But, I think that was a problem with 70s tape stock--Ampex 456 might not have been around in the late 60s yet.
 
I have to agree with you, Rudy.

The advantage of platforms like iTunes is that record companies can trot out back catalog without the cost of manufacturing, storage, distribution and ultimately, returns. So it's not a matter of appealing just to 20 year olds; it's the future. I'm more than 2x20 years old and I use iTunes all the time.

Then there's the question of whether Herb wanted physical releases of these albums. As classic as they are, the three were only moderately successful compared to the earlier catalog.

I remember a quote from him that those ridiculous eBay bids for his out-of-print CDs were one motivation to re-issue the catalog. It could be that the ridiculous bids for Omega Records' bootlegs of these three albums persuaded him to OK the digital release.

Shout!, offering to make high res versions of the covers to A&M Corner is cool...and very unusual. It speaks well of this Web site's reputation and influence. (Remember, statistically, in our experience developing sites like this, fewer than 8% of visitors ever post.)

Now it will be interesting to see if we get access to digital downloads of "You Smile," "Coney Island" and "Summertime." Given yesterday's news, I suspect if those titles see the light of day, they'll be download-only, and that "Rise" will be the next physical release.
 
If you are correct, Rudy and I feel you have hit the nail on the head, then this is really depressing news. Financial considerations apart, I had hoped that Herb could have covered any losses incurred on reissue of the final 6 TJB albums in CD format, if for no other reason but to give his lifelong fans a reward for their loyalty and patience over all these years.

It appears not to be the case and as a completist, I will never be satisfied with not having Herb's entire catalogue on digitally remastered CDs.

Len
 
I feel the same way. I don't want compressed, put-together kits of these albums. They deserve complete remastering onto CD as much as GOING PLACES or WHIPPED CREAM. And as Len stated, we, Herb's lifelong fans deserve better. Even if it doesn't involve a windfall of profit. Especially after all this wait and smoke blown through our ears. I'm sorry. Some of you may be satisfied with this nonesense, but if this is all there is on these titles, I'm TICKED. I never have and never will purchase downloadable music any more than I would purchase the Omega Records crap on eBay. I appreciate whatever efforts are being made by Shout to push for these albums, but digital downloads are just unacceptable after all this time. Randy said ALL the TJB albums would be reissued on CD. I had hoped his word would be gospel. Apparently, it is not.

David,
not impressed with latest news
 
Looking on the lighter side: at least these three will likely end up in jewel cases (for those of you who hated the digipaks!). :)

I was dragged kicking and screaming into the iTunes "age", and though I still hate it with every fiber of my being, I can say that I enjoyed listening on the way to work to the WARM CD I made last night. Listening without headphones is the way to go with WARM, since the noise that inhabits particularly the opening track is far less noticeable when listening through speakers. Ironic indeed - since iPods, by definition are usually listened to with headphones!

As I threatened earlier, curiosity got the better of me and this morning I downloaded THE BRASS ARE COMIN' just to see if the HAECO-CSG processing was dealt with in any way. It wasn't - it's still there, and a quick comparison with the old Japanese CD tracks leads me to conclude that there's very little difference on the iTunes version. The bass is a little more "oomph-y" but that's about the only difference.

Harry
 
I hate to read between the lines, but this all seems like a cost cutting effort from Shout!. It is obvious that if they believed there was a strong market out there for these three new re-releases, they would not have dumped them on Itunes.

The previous signature releases were first rate, and very expensive. If Shout! did not receive enough financial support from consumers, they might be very hesitant to put future editions in this same high end manor.

Notice in May, they are only re-releasing one Herb solo CD with "Rise". This all looks like cost cutting to me. "Let's release the least popular albums direct to itunes. All we had to pay for was the remastering and a little cover art work. No manufacturing, no promotion, no returns from retail." At least, Itunes gets the product to us die-hard fans.

I guess we just got spoiled from the past re-releases. Sometimes we forget that this is the "Music BUSINESS".
 
thetijuanataxi said:
I feel the same way. I don't want compressed, put-together kits of these albums. They deserve complete remastering onto CD as much as GOING PLACES or WHIPPED CREAM. And as Len stated, we, Herb's lifelong fans deserve better. Even if it doesn't involve a windfall of profit. Especially after all this wait and smoke blown through our ears. I'm sorry. Some of you may be satisfied with this nonesense, but if this is all there is on these titles, I'm TICKED. I never have and never will purchase downloadable music any more than I would purchase the Omega Records crap on eBay. I appreciate whatever efforts are being made by Shout to push for these albums, but digital downloads are just unacceptable after all this time. Randy said ALL the TJB albums would be reissued on CD. I had hoped his word would be gospel. Apparently, it is not.

David,
not impressed with latest news



David,

I couldn't agree more with what you said. I have downloaded 1 song in my life, and it was a freebie bonus track from a purchase of the new Jerry Lee Lewis cd.

If downloading is the only way I can get these, I'm done. As much as I want these, I simply refuse to buy my music via downloads. If I boomboxed, or listened on an IPOD, I MIGHT consider it. However, i have a pretty decent stereo, and this format isn't the reason that I assembled a good home stereo system.

My biger issue is that my collection of over 1000 cds will not be permeated with "homemade" jewel case inserts and cds labeled with CD Stomper. I wasn't a fan of the digipak, but I do feel that the booklet is part of the cd experience.

If this is how the reissue program continues, I'm pretty bummed out about it. I don't have a very good feeling about these being issued on cd now. I sure hope I'm wrong.
 
And what's the deal with the record companies trying to convince us for 20 years to buy the same music over and over again in endlessly remastered upgrades, and then suddenly telling us that sound quality doesn't matter, it's all about convenience?

Record companies had very little to do with the initial swing to digital downloads. If you remember, it was consumers rampantly and illegally downloading songs from Napster for free that pushed the record companies into quickly adopting legal download services. It is the mass market which has declared that sound quality takes a back seat to convenience.

Notice in May, they are only re-releasing one Herb solo CD with "Rise". This all looks like cost cutting to me.
No. This is about one big album having the spotlight to itself. Remember, two years ago the exact same thing was done with WHIPPED CREAM. The other, less iconic albums were released in threes; WC, the one album from the TJB that nearly everyone knows about, was given a solo spot. Same with RISE.

we, Herb's lifelong fans deserve better. Even if it doesn't involve a windfall of profit.

ALL music reissues are ALWAYS about profit. No artist, even a nice guy like Herb, EVER reissues a record not hoping to make money on it. No matter what the press releases say, it's never just about pleasing the fans and giving them what they feel they deserve. That's just a nice side effect...the music business is a BUSINESS first.

There is no conspiracy or ripoff here. The best way to assure a profit on these three albums was to cut costs, hence the iTunes release. I would be curious as to what will be the best seller of the three.

I'm not trying to be a big iTunes booster here; after all, I am in the retail music business and I can tell you, the end is probably in sight for our little CD corner here given sales of late. (Our annual Christmas bump was pretty much nonexistant this year.) But if it came down to a choice between an iTunes release or no release, I'm all for the iTunes route. Bring on SUMMERTIME! :D
 
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