What if "(They Long to Be) Close to You" Doesn't Hit?

[Harry]

I feel the same way JohnFB, and always liked the song "It's Going To Take Some Time". At the time, Carole King was hotter than hot, so doing one of her songs was, IMHO, a smart thing to do. OK, so it didn't go to the top 10, but I think that could be because Carpenters were not Carole King, and at the time, there was a strong emphasis on the "singer-songwriter".

 

[Michael Hagerty]

I like "It's Going to Take Some Time" a lot, and can't understand why it sometimes gets a bad rap.

It's a quality song with catchy music & lyrics, and Richard's arrangement, like all of his early stuff, is clever and appealing. Karen's vocal is perfect for the recording - lovely, but restrained, which is what the song called for, just like on CTY.

Carol King famously said that this version made her's sound like a demo (which it does).

On its own merits as a song, absolutely a solid choice for a single, and if Carole King weren't going to release it herself, Richard made the right call.

It's a very pleasant listen and making it to No.12 on the charts is quite an achievment for any recording, and hardly the sign of a failure, or a song that shouldn't have been released as a single.

When one considers all the great songs that they recorded that were never released as singles - every instance of which was a big mistake - this good single being released is hardly a problem. Not every song had to be top 10 to be a success. Exactly what is the difference really between being no.12 and being no.10?

Well, in this case, nobody was aiming for #10---the last three singles peaked at #2. And there's a substantial difference between #2 and #12.

Keep in mind, chart positions aren't cumulative over the life of the record----they're a snapshot of how a record performed in sales relative to other records that week. A peak of #12 means that, in its best week, there were 11 other records that sold better.

Looking at the week "It's Going To Take Some Time" peaked, it was up against some very big records:

1. Sammy Davis, Jr.-The Candy Man
2. Staple Singers-I'll Take You There
3. Chi-Lites-Oh Girl
4. Neil Diamond-Song Sung Blue
5. Dr. Hook-Sylvia's Mother
6. Gallery-Nice To Be With You
7. Roberta Flack-The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face
8. Cat Stevens-Morning Has Broken
9. Billy Preston-Outa-Space
10. Fifth Dimension-(Last Night) I Didn't Get To Sleep At All
11. Rolling Stones-Tumbling Dice


...with Bill Withers' "Lean On Me", Elton John's "Rocket Man" and Derek & The Dominos' "Layla" all racing up the chart behind it.

In this particular case, I think timing may have worked against it. The song had been heard---a lot, and recently---by virtue of being the second track on side one of Carole's MUSIC album---which was still in the Top 15 when Carpenters' single of "It's Going To Take Some Time" was released..and had been for almost five months. In 1972, a lot of Top 40 stations played at least some album cuts---and Carole's version was among them.

Speaking of albums, Carpenters were in the enviable position of having a fan base that wanted their albums. If A SONG FOR YOU had been released at the same time as the single, there might have been more of a buzz---but A&M didn't release the LP until three weeks after "It's Going To Take Some Time" had peaked...making three songs ("Bless the Beasts and the Children", "Hurting Each Other" and "It's Going To Take Some Time") that had radio airplay and chart action that were teasing an album that didn't yet exist.

 

[newvillefan]

Exactly what is the difference really between being no.12 and being no.10?

The difference is it broke their run of gold singles. For the most part, the record-buying public can tell the difference between a smash hit and a non-smash hit and the chart placing reflected this. It pales in comparison to the likes of ‘For All We Know’.

 

[Mike Blakesley]

Exactly what is the difference really between being no.12 and being no.10?

Quite a bit, actually. The media was (and is) full of "top ten" lists, so in a lot of publications a #12 song would never get listed at all.

That can make the difference between "casual fans" and "devoted fans" as to whether they hear about the song at all.

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

I like "It's Going to Take Some Time" a lot, and can't understand why it sometimes gets a bad rap.

It's a quality song with catchy music & lyrics, and Richard's arrangement, like all of his early stuff, is clever and appealing. Karen's vocal is perfect for the recording - lovely, but restrained, which is what the song called for, just like on CTY.

Carol King famously said that this version made her's sound like a demo (which it does). It's a very pleasant listen and making it to No.12 on the charts is quite an achievment for any recording, and hardly the sign of a failure, or a song that shouldn't have been released as a single.

When one considers all the great songs that they recorded that were never released as singles - every instance of which was a big mistake - this good single being released is hardly a problem. Not every song had to be top 10 to be a success. Exactly what is the difference really between being no.12 and being no.10?

I was about to say... #12 isn't too shabby. People heard Richard say it should have stayed an album track and ran with it. This is a song by Carole King. They'd have been complete and utter fools not to release it as a single.

Ed

 

[newvillefan]

I was about to say... #12 isn't too shabby. People heard Richard say it should have stayed an album track and ran with it. This is a song by Carole King. They'd have been complete and utter fools not to release it as a single.

The litmus test for me is to compare it against the commercial potential of the rest of the material on the album (Goodbye To Love, Hurting Each Other). It wasn’t really in the top drawer. It had no immediate impact the way their previous singles had, which is why I think the public thought ‘meh’. Many stellar songwriters have written and recorded songs that were never destined to be singles and this was one of them.

 

[rockdoctor]

On its own merits as a song, absolutely a solid choice for a single, and if Carole King weren't going to release it herself, Richard made the right call.




Well, in this case, nobody was aiming for #10---the last three singles peaked at #2. And there's a substantial difference between #2 and #12.

Keep in mind, chart positions aren't cumulative over the life of the record----they're a snapshot of how a record performed in sales relative to other records that week. A peak of #12 means that, in its best week, there were 11 other records that sold better.

Looking at the week "It's Going To Take Some Time" peaked, it was up against some very big records:

1. Sammy Davis, Jr.-The Candy Man
2. Staple Singers-I'll Take You There
3. Chi-Lites-Oh Girl
4. Neil Diamond-Song Sung Blue
5. Dr. Hook-Sylvia's Mother
6. Gallery-Nice To Be With You
7. Roberta Flack-The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face
8. Cat Stevens-Morning Has Broken
9. Billy Preston-Outa-Space
10. Fifth Dimension-(Last Night) I Didn't Get To Sleep At All
11. Rolling Stones-Tumbling Dice


...with Bill Withers' "Lean On Me", Elton John's "Rocket Man" and Derek & The Dominos' "Layla" all racing up the chart behind it.

In this particular case, I think timing may have worked against it. The song had been heard---a lot, and recently---by virtue of being the second track on side one of Carole's MUSIC album---which was still in the Top 15 when Carpenters' single of "It's Going To Take Some Time" was released..and had been for almost five months. In 1972, a lot of Top 40 stations played at least some album cuts---and Carole's version was among them.

Speaking of albums, Carpenters were in the enviable position of having a fan base that wanted their albums. If A SONG FOR YOU had been released at the same time as the single, there might have been more of a buzz---but A&M didn't release the LP until three weeks after "It's Going To Take Some Time" had peaked...making three songs ("Bless the Beasts and the Children", "Hurting Each Other" and "It's Going To Take Some Time") that had radio airplay and chart action that were teasing an album that didn't yet exist.

Back in the day,
I was listening to American Top 40 with Kasey Casem. I remember this time period. Flack had held the top ten for 12 weeks with 6 at the number 1 spot. Chilites and Staple Singers held for 1 week each at the top. Song Sung Blue also hit the top. Morning Has Broken and Outta Space moved to within the top 3. Gallery had a good run and Last Night topped out at number 8. I do not remember where Tumbling Dice peaked.
For those additional songs, Lean On Me and Rocket Man also topped the charts.
I also remember that Sylvia's Mother was considered the worst record ever recorded!

 

[JohnFB]

Looking at the week "It's Going To Take Some Time" peaked, it was up against some very big records:

1. Sammy Davis, Jr.-The Candy Man
2. Staple Singers-I'll Take You There
3. Chi-Lites-Oh Girl
4. Neil Diamond-Song Sung Blue
5. Dr. Hook-Sylvia's Mother
6. Gallery-Nice To Be With You
7. Roberta Flack-The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face
8. Cat Stevens-Morning Has Broken
9. Billy Preston-Outa-Space
10. Fifth Dimension-(Last Night) I Didn't Get To Sleep At All
11. Rolling Stones-Tumbling Dice


...

Just listened to most of these again, and then IGTTST and there's only several that belong in the same class musically - Fifth Dimension, of course, and Cat Stevens and Roberta Flack and maybe the Chi-Lites...on its merits (and given the right release date) I can see it making it somewhere in the Top 5...

 

[rockdoctor]

I like "It's Going to Take Some Time" a lot, and can't understand why it sometimes gets a bad rap.

It's a quality song with catchy music & lyrics, and Richard's arrangement, like all of his early stuff, is clever and appealing. Karen's vocal is perfect for the recording - lovely, but restrained, which is what the song called for, just like on CTY.

Carol King famously said that this version made her's sound like a demo (which it does). It's a very pleasant listen and making it to No.12 on the charts is quite an achievment for any recording, and hardly the sign of a failure, or a song that shouldn't have been released as a single.

When one considers all the great songs that they recorded that were never released as singles - every instance of which was a big mistake - this good single being released is hardly a problem. Not every song had to be top 10 to be a success. Exactly what is the difference really between being no.12 and being no.10?

Tapestry was recorded to sound like a demo and parts of Music also sound like demos since King was really spreading her wings for the albums that would follow.

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

The litmus test for me is to compare it against the commercial potential of the rest of the material on the album (Goodbye To Love, Hurting Each Other). It wasn’t really in the top drawer. It had no immediate impact the way their previous singles had, which is why I think the public thought ‘meh’. Many stellar songwriters have written and recorded songs that were never destined to be singles and this was one of them.

We finally disagree. Had to happen sometime...LOL! I think "IGTTST" is top-shelf songwriting. I especially love the flute solo and Richard's vocal arranging in that section. Karen sings it beautifully and Richard had yet to decide that more was better so the arrangement is all it should be IMHO.

Ed

 

[rockdoctor]

At the time of the release of A Song For You, in this area, Top Of The World was getting some airplay along with the singles that were released. I would have thought that Goodbye To Love would have ridden the top ten charts for much longer than it did. Local radio was playing I Wont Last A Day Without You by Maureen McGovern before the Carpenters released that as a single.

 

[JohnFB]

We finally disagree. Had to happen sometime...LOL! I think "IGTTST" is top-shelf songwriting. I especially love the flute solo and Richard's vocal arranging in that section. Karen sings it beautifully and Richard had yet to decide that more was better so the arrangement is all it should be IMHO.

Ed

^^^ What he said...^^^

 

[JohnFB]

...
I also remember that Sylvia's Mother was considered the worst record ever recorded!

I always thought that dubious distinction went to "Goofus"...

 

[JohnFB]

The litmus test for me is to compare it against the commercial potential of the rest of the material on the album (Goodbye To Love, Hurting Each Other). It wasn’t really in the top drawer.

It was there in that top drawer, but buried under too much "junk" in that drawer (is that a good metaphor or not?)

I have never been a big fan of "Hurting Each Other" - I know others here like it a lot and I respect their choice - but I've always found it to be too aggravating lyrically (either stop the damn fighting or pack it in and go your separate ways) - and I could never tell just how many Karens exactly were singing together on the choruses...it was her, wasn't it?

 

[Michael Hagerty]

Just listened to most of these again, and then IGTTST and there's only several that belong in the same class musically - Fifth Dimension, of course, and Cat Stevens and Roberta Flack and maybe the Chi-Lites...on its merits (and given the right release date) I can see it making it somewhere in the Top 5...

Right, but that's opinion of musical merit. You think it's a strong song and I agree. Nevillefan doesn't think so. You're not a big fan of "Hurting Each Other", but it peaked at #2 and went Gold. At that point, only "Close to You" had done better.

Your original point was chart performance---and that's a completely different metric, driven by the purchases of, by 1972, an increasingly younger set of consumers, a plurality of them teenaged girls.

 

[Michael Hagerty]

I’d have put money on that. ‘It’s Going To Take Some Time’ was their first big mistake single wise. The next one was ‘Goofus’.

I'd argue that, despite its success, "Sing" was polarizing. If you just want to talk chart performance, "Solitaire" ( a song everyone recorded and no one could get a hit with) was the first big mistake (peaking at #17), and then "Goofus".

For what it's worth, 11 and a half years ago on this forum, I was part of a discussion on Carpenters singles ("Singles That Shouldn't Have Been Singles"):

Singles That Shouldn't Have Been Singles

There aren't many that I can think of, but the infamous "Goofus" comes to mind. I can see it, and possibly be okay (somewhat) with it being just another track, but a single?! What the hell?! I cannot think of the reasoning behind releasing this small, unmemorable track for a standout. Why...

forum.amcorner.com

(and I see I made a fact error in that one, forgetting that "It's Going To Take Some Time" broke the top ten streak)

Singles That Shouldn't Have Been Singles

There aren't many that I can think of, but the infamous "Goofus" comes to mind. I can see it, and possibly be okay (somewhat) with it being just another track, but a single?! What the hell?! I cannot think of the reasoning behind releasing this small, unmemorable track for a standout. Why...

forum.amcorner.com

The conversation goes on for a few pages after those posts.

 

[Michael Hagerty]

The difference is it broke their run of gold singles.

Yeah, but "Goodbye To Love" didn't go Gold either.

 

[Portlander]

I actually don't mind "It's Going To Take Some Time" and always considered it a pleasant song but I liked "Let Me Be The One" so much better and felt it would have faired better on the charts. Even though it was a success, "Sing" was a cringeworthy release for me especially when Richard was so concerned about their "goody four shoes image" and after receiving a small dose of rock credibility with "Goodbye To Love".

 

[Michael Hagerty]

I actually don't mind "It's Going To Take Some Time" and always considered it a pleasant song but I liked "Let Me Be The One" so much better and felt it would have faired better on the charts. Even though it was a success, "Sing" was a cringeworthy release for me especially when Richard was so concerned about their "goody four shoes image" and after receiving a small dose of rock credibility with "Goodbye To Love".

I agree about "Let Me Be The One", but that was two years earlier. With a new album on the way in weeks, A&M wasn't going to go mine a track from the CLOSE TO YOU album.

 

[Portlander]

Did you mean the "Carpenters" album? And A&M did release a refreshed recording of "I Won't Last A Day Without You" from a previous album and a refreshed "Top Of The World" was also released while "Now And Then" was out so the label could have made it happen.

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

I actually don't mind "It's Going To Take Some Time" and always considered it a pleasant song but I liked "Let Me Be The One" so much better and felt it would have faired better on the charts. Even though it was a success, "Sing" was a cringeworthy release for me especially when Richard was so concerned about their "goody four shoes image" and after receiving a small dose of rock credibility with "Goodbye To Love".

Agreed. Sing was every bit as dubious a single choice as Goofus was. They sunk their image as forward-thinking progressive artists very early on. Why was A&M not interfering when poor choices like this were being made?

Ed

 

[JohnFB]

I actually don't mind "It's Going To Take Some Time" and always considered it a pleasant song but I liked "Let Me Be The One" so much better and felt it would have faired better on the charts. Even though it was a success, "Sing" was a cringeworthy release for me especially when Richard was so concerned about their "goody four shoes image" and after receiving a small dose of rock credibility with "Goodbye To Love".

But I feel that "Sing" is a good, clean, wholesome, melodious, upbeat fun kind of song - it's a singalong song for the whole family, for all ages (but then I'm a guy who used to watch "The Lawrence Welk Show" every week for years with my own kids when they were growing up, and enjoyed it! ) If it made it to no.1 apparently a lot of other people thought the same thing. How was this a mistake?

Richard's big problem was not releasing songs like "Sing" or "Top of the World", etc. - it was his time & energy wasting obsession with this image of "goody four shoes" (as I've detailed elsewhere) - his only worry should have been whether or not they were cranking out good music, music that they loved performing and their fans worldwide enjoyed listening to...

Screw that "four shoes" image and the small-minded, mean-spirited SOBs who pushed it...

 

[Michael Hagerty]

Did you mean the "Carpenters" album? And A&M did release a refreshed recording of "I Won't Last A Day Without You" from a previous album and a refreshed "Top Of The World" was also released while "Now And Then" was out so the label could have made it happen.

D'oh!

I should never do this before coffee---I was thinking of "I Kept On Loving You" instead of "Let Me Be The One". Both Paul Williams songs.

So---yeah---in theory, A&M could have squeezed one more single off CARPENTERS, and pushed back the release of "Hurting Each Other" into what was the release date of "It's Going To Take Some Time".

"Top of the World" was Richard waking up to a missed opportunity for a huge record, and "I Won't Last A Day" was forced by the touring schedule keeping them out of the studio. Neither applies to "Let Me Be The One."

 

[Michael Hagerty]

Agreed. Sing was every bit as dubious a single choice as Goofus was. They sunk their image as forward-thinking progressive artists very early on. Why was A&M not interfering when poor choices like this were being made?

Ed

It's a fine line. While artist image mattered, A&M wanted to make money, and "Sing" did very well commercially.

There was also a compounding effect of "Sing" that was beyond Carpenters' control---Clint Holmes' "Playground In My Mind" was on the charts at the same time (released a couple of weeks later), so there were two top five records with a childrens' sing-along:



I was programming radio at the time, and each song actually accelerated the burnout of the other.

 

[Michael Hagerty]

But I feel that "Sing" is a good, clean, wholesome, melodious, upbeat fun kind of song - it's a singalong song for the whole family, for all ages

I think people also forget that songs from Sesame Street had a bit of a moment. Not so much in chart terms, but "Sing", "(It's Not Easy) Being Green", God help us, even "Rubber Duckie".

And there are ways to do "Sing" that doesn't involve a children's chorus---in fact, Barbra Streisand did a wistful (well, it starts and ends that way) adult version (part of a medley with Mama Cass' "Make Your Own Kind of Music") the year before K&R did it:



Frankly, I would have loved to hear Richard produce Karen singing this as a very slow, delicate ballad....a sort of "alone in your room, finding your courage and your voice" kind of thing, which the lyrics support:

"don't worry that it's not good enough

for anyone else to hear

just sing

sing a song"

(Streisand peaked at #94----Carpenters at #3.)

(but then I'm a guy who used to watch "The Lawrence Welk Show" every week for years with my own kids when they were growing up, and enjoyed it! )

A lot of us enjoyed Lawrence Welk...often for all the wrong reasons:

If it made it to no.1 apparently a lot of other people thought the same thing. How was this a mistake?

Well, it didn't. It peaked at #3, but that's still huge. Again, the problem is short-term commercial success vs. image.

Richard's big problem was not releasing songs like "Sing" or "Top of the World", etc. - it was his time & energy wasting obsession with this image of "goody four shoes" (as I've detailed elsewhere) - his only worry should have been whether or not they were cranking out good music, music that they loved performing and their fans worldwide enjoyed listening to...

Screw that "four shoes" image and the small-minded, mean-spirited SOBs who pushed it...

Yeah, but...the reason the Carpenters didn't have a longer chart run was image---nobody ever said Karen couldn't sing or Richard couldn't produce.

As I said in that thread 11 years ago---"Superstar", "Goodbye to Love", "This Masquerade"---these songs caught the attention and got the respect of people who weren't Carpenters fans. Finding a way to extend that line rather than doing "Sing" and "Goofus" would have paid off for K&R in the long run. Richard was right to worry.

And there was still a window, even as late as '73, where that would have worked. I made a point of playing my promo copy of "Yesterday Once More" the first week I got it to people who I knew HATED "Sing". Most of them ended up with tears in their eyes.

It was never about talent. It was absolutely about content choices and image.