marblerabbit
New Member
Welcome timbrown. Glad to have you aboard!
Doug
Doug
What trumpet did Herb Alpert play?
- Thread starter dlivadas
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Captaindave
The guy I got my Burbank from used to be a brass repair apprentice. His statement to me was a clarification of what someone else (at brass bow in Chicago). Sometimes they will buff the old finish off and remove part of the brass. Sometimes you'll have thin spots. THen when you relaquer or replate, you might get too thick of an application, which will alter the resonance of the bell.
I'm kind of fortunate in that my bell is in pretty decent shape; there are two spots where hand contact are made where the finish is gone and it APPEARS that the brass might be thinner. it's just the valve casings have lots of silver plate gone...and the lead pipe is patched. They (Brass Bow) mentioned painting some silver on, which I might have done. I'm assuming that painting some silver on the two bare spots on the bell would probably be ok.
THe problem is that this would be a "patch" and I'm not into "patches". On the other hand, I don't want the horn messed up. It is EASILY the best horn I've played! Looks are secondary. (although I DO Miss the look of my old laquer bach!)
One of these days, when I have the cash, I'd like to get my hands on another Burbank....preferably older. I know the LA horns are great but I'd like to stay closer to the Chicago/Burbank era. Sometimes you see really good ones out there.
Tim
The guy I got my Burbank from used to be a brass repair apprentice. His statement to me was a clarification of what someone else (at brass bow in Chicago). Sometimes they will buff the old finish off and remove part of the brass. Sometimes you'll have thin spots. THen when you relaquer or replate, you might get too thick of an application, which will alter the resonance of the bell.
I'm kind of fortunate in that my bell is in pretty decent shape; there are two spots where hand contact are made where the finish is gone and it APPEARS that the brass might be thinner. it's just the valve casings have lots of silver plate gone...and the lead pipe is patched. They (Brass Bow) mentioned painting some silver on, which I might have done. I'm assuming that painting some silver on the two bare spots on the bell would probably be ok.
THe problem is that this would be a "patch" and I'm not into "patches". On the other hand, I don't want the horn messed up. It is EASILY the best horn I've played! Looks are secondary. (although I DO Miss the look of my old laquer bach!)
One of these days, when I have the cash, I'd like to get my hands on another Burbank....preferably older. I know the LA horns are great but I'd like to stay closer to the Chicago/Burbank era. Sometimes you see really good ones out there.
Tim
<Snip> I have always felt that Herb Alpert was more of a trumpet "stylist" than a trumpet "technician." Herb's playing is all about sound and style, rather than high notes and fast fingering(Zorba the Greek excluded...). Trumpet technicians are people like Doc Severinsen, Arturo Sandoval, Wynton Marsalis, Maynard Ferguson, and many others... <Snip>
I forgot in my last post to thank you for helping me put a finger on where I'm coming from. I am playing at church on an increasing basis. My pastor plays a Strad and is more a technician. I'm more a stylist! He gets frustrated with me , I think, because I just WON'T "stay between the lines". I like to memorize the music, then play from my heart, not my head. Make it come alive!
I don't mean this as an arrogant statement....but artists DON'T paint by the numbers....! Now, if you want to reproduce a specific painting (or sound, etc) then you have to stay in the lines and paint by the numbers. However, I just Can't get into that!
Again, thanks!
Tim
I forgot in my last post to thank you for helping me put a finger on where I'm coming from. I am playing at church on an increasing basis. My pastor plays a Strad and is more a technician. I'm more a stylist! He gets frustrated with me , I think, because I just WON'T "stay between the lines". I like to memorize the music, then play from my heart, not my head. Make it come alive!
I don't mean this as an arrogant statement....but artists DON'T paint by the numbers....! Now, if you want to reproduce a specific painting (or sound, etc) then you have to stay in the lines and paint by the numbers. However, I just Can't get into that!
Again, thanks!
Tim
Captaindave
Well-Known Member
Hi,Tim,
I understand exactly what you are saying in the above post. Been there - done that, so to speak...
I have played with that kind of player before, and I must say that it often wasn't an enjoyable experience. It was usually in a "sit down" concert band or orchestra type situation where blending and section playing were important.
I think that in bands and orchestras where there is a large group of players involved, you will get that "technician" approach. These people are focused on accurate intonation, playing the notes exactly "as written," etc. I suppose that is necessary in an orchestra or concert band in order for the "big picture" to happen and sound good. It is very dependent on following the paper, so to speak, in order for the whole thing to work.
My feeling is that there is a time and place for everything, and room for all kinds of players.
After working for awhile with Donovan Bankhead at Springfield Music, I have ordered a new French Besson Classic trumpet. It is reported to be an excellent horn and priced very reasonably. I am hoping it will turn out as well as it is claimed. I decided to go with a new horn rather than try to find a good vintage horn...
I thought about a Kanstul Chicago or a Conn Vintage One, but I think the Besson will do just fine and for a little less money...
I often post on Trumpet Herald as username DaveH.
Best wishes...
Dave Herron
I understand exactly what you are saying in the above post. Been there - done that, so to speak...
I have played with that kind of player before, and I must say that it often wasn't an enjoyable experience. It was usually in a "sit down" concert band or orchestra type situation where blending and section playing were important.
I think that in bands and orchestras where there is a large group of players involved, you will get that "technician" approach. These people are focused on accurate intonation, playing the notes exactly "as written," etc. I suppose that is necessary in an orchestra or concert band in order for the "big picture" to happen and sound good. It is very dependent on following the paper, so to speak, in order for the whole thing to work.
My feeling is that there is a time and place for everything, and room for all kinds of players.
After working for awhile with Donovan Bankhead at Springfield Music, I have ordered a new French Besson Classic trumpet. It is reported to be an excellent horn and priced very reasonably. I am hoping it will turn out as well as it is claimed. I decided to go with a new horn rather than try to find a good vintage horn...
I thought about a Kanstul Chicago or a Conn Vintage One, but I think the Besson will do just fine and for a little less money...
I often post on Trumpet Herald as username DaveH.
Best wishes...
Dave Herron
Hi DaveH!
Yes, I am on TH as well. Same name as here. I think I ran into you there when I first started at trumpet herald. I was asking about Benges at the time.
I agree with your statement. There is a time and place for it. Some have more difficulty letting a flow "happen". My pastor (whom I do love deeply) likes more control and wants things to go well. I understand.
Yesterday, when I was playing behind four singers (one male, three female) I decided to do a little work of my own on the fly. So I began to do harmony improv for the singers. I wasn't supposed to be playing in those two songs at all but I got bored and let 'er fly! I can read music but try not to... Many came up to me and said it sounded great! So, the pastor, I think, is more open to me doing more. One of his concerns too was that a trumpet might drown out the vocals. Doesn't have to. And, I think I gained more of his confidence when I was adlibbing. Generally, when I'm at the church practicing, I'm ripping paint off the walls.
So yesterday was a kind of breakthrough. I can understand his side of it; he's very structured and I'm not!
The next thing I'm planning is doing some recording here at home. I'm awaiting arrival of a Tascam multitrack recorder I got on Ebay at a decent price. I've got a large reel Teac deck for mixdown and a PVM 45 instrument mic. I'm also looking at music notation software so I can make my own backgrounds. I love it!
I've read here that Alpert commented that a horn is just plumbing. I read that in a "Brasswind" magazine from '85 (I think that was the year). I tend to agree although clogged plumbing doesn't help. When I was younger, I would play my Bach 37 along with the records and there were times when I couldn't tell my horn from his! I'm not saying I was as good, but the intonation was there. And that was a stuffy Bach!
Nice to run into you here, Dave!
Tim
Yes, I am on TH as well. Same name as here. I think I ran into you there when I first started at trumpet herald. I was asking about Benges at the time.
I agree with your statement. There is a time and place for it. Some have more difficulty letting a flow "happen". My pastor (whom I do love deeply) likes more control and wants things to go well. I understand.
Yesterday, when I was playing behind four singers (one male, three female) I decided to do a little work of my own on the fly. So I began to do harmony improv for the singers. I wasn't supposed to be playing in those two songs at all but I got bored and let 'er fly! I can read music but try not to... Many came up to me and said it sounded great! So, the pastor, I think, is more open to me doing more. One of his concerns too was that a trumpet might drown out the vocals. Doesn't have to. And, I think I gained more of his confidence when I was adlibbing. Generally, when I'm at the church practicing, I'm ripping paint off the walls.
So yesterday was a kind of breakthrough. I can understand his side of it; he's very structured and I'm not!
The next thing I'm planning is doing some recording here at home. I'm awaiting arrival of a Tascam multitrack recorder I got on Ebay at a decent price. I've got a large reel Teac deck for mixdown and a PVM 45 instrument mic. I'm also looking at music notation software so I can make my own backgrounds. I love it!
I've read here that Alpert commented that a horn is just plumbing. I read that in a "Brasswind" magazine from '85 (I think that was the year). I tend to agree although clogged plumbing doesn't help. When I was younger, I would play my Bach 37 along with the records and there were times when I couldn't tell my horn from his! I'm not saying I was as good, but the intonation was there. And that was a stuffy Bach!
Nice to run into you here, Dave!
Tim
Captaindave
Well-Known Member
Herb may have said that the horn was just "plumbing," but I have a suspicion that he gave it more thought than that when he decided what horn to play during all those Tijuana Brass years, both on recording and in concert. 
I think he might have been trying to say that it is more the player and not so much the horn that actually makes the music happen and the sound come out in a certain way.
I have heard that Herb played various horns over the years, yet he still sounds like Herb regardless. I think that is true for all of us who play the horn... I think what we all want to find in a horn is one that minimizes the obstacles to playing well and sounding good. The equipment should help, rather than interfere, with the performance. If you have that, you have a good horn.
I think he might have been trying to say that it is more the player and not so much the horn that actually makes the music happen and the sound come out in a certain way.
I have heard that Herb played various horns over the years, yet he still sounds like Herb regardless. I think that is true for all of us who play the horn... I think what we all want to find in a horn is one that minimizes the obstacles to playing well and sounding good. The equipment should help, rather than interfere, with the performance. If you have that, you have a good horn.
Jay Maynes/Juan Oskar
Member
I read that Mr. Alpert used a Bob Reeves Mouthpiece. Most trumpeters will use 460. bore trumpets. Bobby Shew uses a 438. Al Hirt used a large bore, probably 462.-467, One of the Maynard horn models was a 467. bore. I played a King Flair for years and I had to work to hard. It's a 462. But ultimately it's the mouthpiece. Sometimes the chops go into a funk and it's time to change. Check out www.mouthpieceexpress.com and see howww manyyy mouthpieces there are. Later...Jay
Captaindave
Well-Known Member
When Herb was in his Marcinkiewicz "period", so to speak - I think mid eighties to early nineties - he claimed to be playing both a Marcinkiewicz horn and mouthpiece. At least that's what he said in the 1985 Windplayer interview... The Midnight Sun album may be a Marcinkiewicz...also maybe North on South Street...
The King Silver Flair was a great horn in its day when King was still making them...I used to have one - I'd really wish I still did
...if you get a good horn, never sell it no matter what...
Right now, I'm waiting on the arrival of a French Besson Classic trumpet and a CKB 1 1/2C mouthpiece ( ought to be here Monday)
It was sort of hand picked for me... comes highly recommended...
It's true - there are hundreds of mouthpieces - it is a challenge to find one that works best.... very much of an individual thing...
The King Silver Flair was a great horn in its day when King was still making them...I used to have one - I'd really wish I still did
...if you get a good horn, never sell it no matter what...Right now, I'm waiting on the arrival of a French Besson Classic trumpet and a CKB 1 1/2C mouthpiece ( ought to be here Monday)
It was sort of hand picked for me... comes highly recommended... It's true - there are hundreds of mouthpieces - it is a challenge to find one that works best.... very much of an individual thing...
Jay Maynes/Juan Oskar
Member
Get this. I have a trumpet player friend that buys a new horn every year because he says he likes the constant fresh tight feel of a new horn. I can't really argue with him, he was Wayne Newtons lead player for years and played for many other artists. Buddy Rich etc. Later...Jay
Captaindave
Well-Known Member
I think that Herb's most recent recordings - like Passion Dance, Second Wind, Colors - may have been played on one of the Kanstul Signature series horns...
I think the comment about the horn being a piece of plumbing may have originated with Carmine Caruso, a one time trumpet teacher of Herb's...
I think the comment about the horn being a piece of plumbing may have originated with Carmine Caruso, a one time trumpet teacher of Herb's...
You're right about the price of a new Kanstul "Chicago". I spent a couple of hours on the phone today with Jack Kanstul. He's generous with his time and knowledge of horns. I was looking at a 1964 Burbank Benge on Ebay, the guy wanted $1000.00. After talking to Jack and getting a price, there wasn't enough of a price difference to justify buying the Burbank. Also with the new Kanstul Chicago, I get to play instead of screwing around fixing an old horn. Basically the Kanstul "Chicago" is a NEW Chicago Benge. The warranty is forever. Kanstul has quite a reputation, and Herb Alpert now plays and endorses Kanstul. I can't wait to get the horn.
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