Which should have been a bigger hit for Sergio?

[JMK]

Have any of you other Sergiophiles played the "what if" game in thinking about what singles of Sergio's should have been bigger hits? Here's a poll along those lines.

 

[JMK]

I chose "Gone Forever" not necessarily because it's my favorite of the list above (though it's great to hear Karen by herself), but because in the course of Sergio's career I think it could have been a defining moment, much like "Never Gonna Let You Go" became more than a decade later. If "Gone Forever" had hit, establishing Brasil '77 as a "brand" much like '66, his days with A&M probably would not have been numbered and the varying quality of the Bell and Elektra albums that followed might have been more consistent.

 

[Joe]

I voted for "Norwegian Wood" because I think it should have done well on the charts. Not only that, but it's one of my favorite Brasil '66 songs. One of the group's shining moments.

As a close second, I would have chosen "For What It's Worth", it seems like it echos the life and times in the late '60s. I like this version better than Buffalo Springfield's.

Joe, NP: "Norwegian Wood" - Sergio Mendes & Brasil '66

 

[Harry]

I voted for "Pretty World." Back when it was a single, I heard it a great deal on the radio and thought it WAS a huge hit. I always loved the song and have been somewhat dismayed to find so many naysayers about it here.

Harry
..."Pretty World" supporter, online...

 

[JMK]

I wanted to wait to see if someone voted for "Pretty World", Harry, before chiming in. It is probably my favorite tune on the list above--I remember hearing it a ton in that summer of '69, which is really when I first became infatuated with Sergio and Lani. I initially had a cassette version of Crystal Illusions taped off my neighbor's LP, and I remember playing "Pretty World" over and over (and over and over) on a trip with my Dad when he was reviewing troops (he was a General in the Army). His adjutant's kids shared a room with me and when I played that song one night one of the kids said in an excited voice "I've heard that on the radio a lot!" It seemed to be a bigger hit than I guess it actually was, and I've always thought it deserved at least the chart success that Fool and Scarborough did.

 

[Brasil_Nut]

I chose "Gone Forever" not necessarily because it's my favorite of the list above (though it's great to hear Karen by herself), but because in the course of Sergio's career I think it could have been a defining moment, much like "Never Gonna Let You Go" became more than a decade later..

Ditto!

If "Gone Forever" had hit, establishing Brasil '77 as a "brand" much like '66, his days with A&M probably would not have been numbered and the varying quality of the Bell and Elektra albums that followed might have been more consistent.

Double Ditto!!

I looked at the poll, thought a while and went for "Gone Forever" without so much as a second thought. It's a tough poll. There are so many songs that could have been hits. Like you, I thought "Pretty World" was a huge hit in the Summer of '69 -- mainly because I heard it on the radio all the time. Then again, a couple of years later, I heard a lot of "For What It's Worth" and "Norwegian Wood" as well. Now that I think about it, "For What It's Worth" garnered more airplay. I thought it was a hit as well.

Although brief, I have memories of hearing "Wave" on the radio when I was very young. "Night & Day" had quite a bit of exposure as well.

I've always liked "Gone Forever" in and of itself. What a beautiful ballad. Karen is in her element, it's a fine arrangement and Sergio's trademark sound is intact.

Jon

 

[Brasil_Nut]

I voted for "Norwegian Wood" because I think it should have done well on the charts. Not only that, but it's one of my favorite Brasil '66 songs. One of the group's shining moments.

As a close second, I would have chosen "For What It's Worth", it seems like it echos the life and times in the late '60s. I like this version better than Buffalo Springfield's.

From memory, I have to say that both songs garnered a great deal of airplay at the time. As mentioned in my response to Jeff, "For What It's Worth" did get more play than "Norwegian Wood". Both songs were recognized as "Mendes" or (as we called it in the those days) "Brasil '66" songs when played on the radio. It all came down to the amazing, trademark sound of Lani Hall.

As you know, "Norwegian Wood" was recorded with Lani in one channel, Karen in the other. Up to this point, Sergio had used Karen as a background vocalist. And, we all know Karen provided lead vocals on "For What It's Worth" as well. Once again, we have another step in the evolution of Sergio Mendes & Brasil '66.

As a sideline, "Norwegian Wood" translated much better on stage than "For What It's Worth". Paul Jeromack and I refer to "Norwegian Wood" and "Scarborough Fair" as "Sergio Mendes & Brasil '66 Unplugged..." Both songs were well represented in live performances. On stage, "For What It's Worth" seemed to lose it's edge.

Jon

...thinking Joe has an excellent ear for Mendes hits, online...

 

[Harry]

For the record here are the Mendes hits in ascending order, including the "bubbling under" records that never quite made the Top 100:

Peak
Pos	Wks	
126	04	The Frog
113	03	Love Music
107	01	Norwegian Wood
106	02	I Say A Little Prayer
101	06	For What It's Worth
098	02	For Me
095	02	Wichita Lineman
082	05	Night & Day
071	06	Constant Rain (Chove Chuva)
066	05	Dock Of The Bay
062	06	Pretty World
058	07	Olympia
052	08	Rainbow's End
047	08	Mas Que Nada
029	19	Alibis
016	09	Scarborough Fair
006	12	Fool On The Hill
004	14	The Look Of Love
004	23	Never Gonna Let You Go

Source: Joel Whitburn's Top 100 and Bubbling Under books.

Excuse the leading zeroes, used to make the chart more uniform. I smell a homemade compilation!

Harry
...still fond of his own Alpert countdown compilation, online...

 

[Captain Bacardi]

I went with "The Frog", simply because the rhythm has such a great groove to it, and the vocal overlaps were magical IMHO. If the new Sergio remake album is to happen, then this song might sound pretty good with a more modern beat.


Capt. Bacardi

 

[Brasil6699]

I voted for "Gone Forever" for the same reason as everyone else. Although, I don't ever remember it being released on single.

The amazingly informative chart that Harry provided is the Hot 100 chart via Billboard. I used to have the A/C (easy listening) chart book from Billboard, and alot of these songs were more popular on that chart. I think it was an orange book. Was Sergio's target audience EZ listening or Hot 100?

It is very quiet at work today, so I am incredibly bored... sigh!!!

 

[walterphil]

its gotta be pretty world.

it's the sister song to "fool on the hill"

and for me, the quintessential sergio/lani/karen song.

love the line about the "lemon bright balloon...."

i did a painting of lani with a yellow balloon floating off in the distance
a while ago

xx
walt

 

[Harry]

Back in the '60s, there wasn't all that much thought to 'target audiences.' Essentially, everybody just wanted mainstream hits, as that's what pop radio played. If you listened to your top-40 station back then, you heard everything from the Beach Boys to Herb Alpert to Frank Sinatra to The Beatles. Every genre was fair game on these stations -- and on the charts as well.

Harry
...surprised that one of the Atlantic tracks made that list, online...

 

[Harry]

i did a painting of lani with a yellow balloon floating off in the distance
a while ago

Sounds like something we'd all like to see. Have you anyway of showing it to us?

Harry

 

[Mr Bill]

I voted for "Pretty World", my favorite B'66 song of all time...

--Mr Bill

 

[Joe]

Jon

...thinking Joe has an excellent ear for Mendes hits, online...

Well thank you very much Jon! While we're on the subject of singles, I think that "Sometimes in Winter" should have been released as a single. There's just something about the beauty of that one.

Joe, making a note that if Shirley's still around, she'd vote for "Chelsea Morning"

 

[DAN BOLTON]

I voted for CHOVE CHUVA, because it's my favorite B66 song, and because I think it was the best of the early hits...it was the epitome of the early sound. FOR ME has to be a close second, because it's almost as good...but the tempo changes probably worked against it.

I'm surprised at Harry's chart...I would have thought that MAS QUE NADA would have peaked higher than it did, but...I guess it didn't. And, #47 isn't really all THAT bad for a first effort...

I've never had the chance to hear SOMETIMES IN WINTER, but I have the originl version from BS&T...it should have been released as a single from THAT album, too...

It is somewhat of a surprise that some of B66's biggest hits were orchestrated by Dave Grusin...I had forgotten just how popular FOOL ON THE HILL was, as well as SCARBOROUGH FAIR...these were by far my favorite versions of these songs, but I didn't realize that they were Top 10 Hits. I'm NOT knocking Grusin...I really like his arrangements...I think he captured the "feel" of the late '60's as well, if not better than, anyone else...

I'd like a return to the days when you could listen to Top 40 stations and hear a lot of what we call Adult Contemporary today...it was a much simpler time back then, and the music was much better. And, it seemed like the hits rotated more often...the scene was always changing. Today, there are just a few really big hits that the radio plays...or do they all just sound alike? I swear that my trunklid is going to go into orbit if my kids play Nelly or Eminem one more time...


Dan

 

[Harry]

My own personal favorite cut on the Confetti album is "Real Life." Not because it's a great Sergio song...it isn't -- it's just a great pop song! I don't know why this didn't become a hit.

I was just perusing Amazon.com and noticed that among all "A&M" albums, Sergio's old Greatest Hits album is ranked fairly high on their best-selling list. In looking at the reviews for that album, there's a Harvey somebody-or-other at the bottom of the first page bemoaning the fact that "Real Life" isn't included on the album, yet he claims it was a top ten hit. That reminded me of this post of Mike B's in another thread, plus the fact that in the chart posted above, "Real Life" isn't found anywhere - but two hits from Confetti are, "Alibis" and "Olympia".

Of course that Harvey whatsisname didn't apparently realize that the Greatest Hits collection was put together back in 1970, long before Confetti.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/A...19444/sr=11-1/ref=sr_11_1/002-6881672-5158424

Harry
...tieing it all together, online...

 

[TulitaPepsi]

So many choices! I almost picked "For What It's Worth" because it is so superior to the Buffalo Springfield version - but the fact that Karen sounds ever-so-slightly menacing ("The man come and heeeel take you a-waaay..") may have turned off more people than it turned ON. But I chose "Pretty World". One of my very favorite B'66 songs, it epitomises the shiny happy swingin' set sound of the '60s, with that killer piano intro that sounds so 'Linus & Lucy' (and which practically begs to be 'sampled') and 'Love Power' lyrics. It seems perfect for AM radio - a real 'Beach party' song. Like other posters here, I thought it charted far higher than it did...I remember hearing it quite a lot on the radio in the late '60s.

I'm actually amazed "Olympia", "Alibis" and "Rainbows End" charted as high as they did. I thought it was insane not to release a single of "Love is Waiting", as I thought it the best song by far on Sergio's 1983 "Return to A&M " album. It actually got some radio play as I remember hearing it in my college dorm and thinking "Who's doing this RIP-OFF of Sergio?!"

 

[JMK]

"Real Life" did chart on AC, as well as a bunch of other tunes that aren't on Harry's list above. I think the AC charts are probably more representative of what all us oldsters remember hearing on the radio, since most formats in those days played a wide variety of AC artists.

Harry, in response to your surprise about the Atlantic single, remember it was released during Sergio's high point on the charts, 1968-69 and benefitted from cross-promotion.

 

[Harry]

Yeah, I know of its timing - it's just that I never heard it played on radio at all - unusual for anything that charted at all, especially someone I'd heard of. Perhaps it did well on jazz stations of the day, which I never payed much attention to.

I'm sure that an adult contemporary or MOR chart from those days would have more Sergio Mendes items on it, and charting higher as well. Still, more people consider the 'beauty contest' Top-100 as more prestigious and more representative of the population at large than they do with the specialized charts. Unless of course their interests lie solely within that specialization, such as Jazz or Country or whatever.

Harry
...looking from the populist point of view, online...

 

[Brasil_Nut]

I've heard "I Say A Little Prayer" in a commercial jingle as background music, but never on the radio. The fact that it charted is interesting. Same with "Nana" -- I've heard it somewhere other than Dad's reel-to-reel, although I don't remember where.

However, in reading these posts, I have to say that "Pretty World" is, indeed, a definite winner over all. As a child, I recall thinking of "Pretty World", "Fool On The Hill", "Scarborough Fair", "Night & Day" and "For What It's Worth" as definitive of Brasil '66. These titles would pop into my head -- and play on the radio -- far more than others listed on the poll.

Jon

 

[Brasil_66_Fan]

I went with "The Frog", simply because the rhythm has such a great groove to it, and the vocal overlaps were magical IMHO.

I definitely agree with you on this Cap'n, and it was 'for me' a tossup between The Frog and For Me but I chose the latter mainly due to seeing them perform it in November '67: it was (and still is) my favorite from Equinox and I had hoped they'd do it - I wasn't disappointed!!

 

[Cotton66]

Pretty World, easily.

I would hear it for the first time back in the early 90's listening to those pre-programmed AM stations and when it came on I was enthralled. This was my intro to Brasil '66 and bossa nova.

 

[Steven J. Gross]

My pick "For Me" is such a cool arrangement of the Edu Lobo song. It kind of gives me the same vibe as the Beach Boys "California Girls", must be that cool organ break- A CLASSIC.
I think it is high time Sergio gets to #1 Triple Platinum, maybe the new CD will be that one!

 

[aymnostalgico]

I chose "Gone Forever" not necessarily because it's my favorite of the list above (though it's great to hear Karen by herself), but because in the course of Sergio's career I think it could have been a defining moment, much like "Never Gonna Let You Go" became more than a decade later. If "Gone Forever" had hit, establishing Brasil '77 as a "brand" much like '66, his days with A&M probably would not have been numbered and the varying quality of the Bell and Elektra albums that followed might have been more consistent.

I first heard Sergio Mendes with "Agua de Beber" but the song that did it for me was "Roda" It was back in 1980 and my brother said to me, "listen to this song" he placed the needle on the record and the rest is history. That same record I still have and my brother recently asked me where was it. I told him it was in good hands. I was glad when Look Around was reissued on cd. This recording truly holds a great part of my childhood considering I was born in 1971. Did "Roda" charted back in "67 here in the U.S? Hey guys, look I am a "BRONZE MEMBER" now