An obsessive compulsive : AT THE END OF A SONG

[ullalume]

O.K. Me again. And At The End of a Song again. It seems to me that this is really the only song now out of the 140 or so out there who's recording date is in question. So I thought I'd ask all of you to just write back 1980 or 1982 and state your reasons why.

Here's mine:

1982.

Because : Her voice sounds very similar to You're Enough in my opinion (also from April of that year)

The song structure seems alot more along the lines of the above track and In Love Alone (all written in '82) and less like the more complex (though not necessarily superior) formats of Because We Are In Love and Those Good Old Dreams (both '80)

Finally, Evelyn Wallace, secretary of the Carpenters Fan Club, wrote to me saying ATEOAS was tracked in 82 (though she also said the same of You're Baby Doesn't Love You Anymore which we know not to be the case).


Anyway, really looking forward to your thoughts on this subject.

Take care all

Neil

 

[newvillefan]

Hi Neil

Great topic, been waiting for something like this for a while so as to get everyone debating and the old brains going again!

I sit on the other side of the fence, I remember reading a number of places that this song was a Made In America outtake, I don't hear so much of a similarity between this and 'You're Enough' - on that track, Karen always sounded to me like she had cold, and her voice sounded thinner and sharper than on this track, which seemed a warmer recording.

Of course, any source other than Richard is never going to be definitive, but check this description of Voice Of The Heart out from http://www.grantguerrero.com/carpenters/voice.html. I thoroughly enjoyed his very accurate and extensive comments across the Carpenters entire catalogue, which are remarkably well informed, so I have little reason to think the following quote was off the mark in this case:

"The album starts with Karen's last recording, "Now," which was a work lead recorded in April of 1982. Richard completed this song (and several others on this album) by adding the orchestration, backing vocals and other finishing touches later in 1983. Several of the songs had been recorded during the Made in America sessions in 1980 (work leads were recorded or songs were completed for "Your Baby Doesn't Love You Anymore," "Two Lives," "Make Believe It's Your First Time" and "At the End of a Song")."

Ok, backpedalling time now, because I said I thought Richard's word would be definitive! Here's something to confuse matters, look at this quote from the official site and Richard's comment just this year:

"She made a short trip to Los Angeles in April [1982] for a visit, during which time several rhythm tracks with work leads were recorded, including Now, You're Enough and Two Lives."

We know from Richard's quotes on other occasions that Two Lives was a product of the Made In America, so inconsistencies like this never help ! And if there were 'several' work leads recorded in 1982, how come we only got to hear two?

Stephen

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

What is weird is when I first read this biography which was weeks ago, there was no mention of these songs listed but now I see they are listed. I could swear with my life that these songs were not listed last time I read this biography.

"She made a short trip to Los Angeles in April for a visit, during which time several rhythm tracks with work leads were recorded, including Now, You're Enough and Two Lives"

I don't have the answer but perhaps someone could write Richard and ask about these descrepencies & dates? Stephen I nominate you

I just realized something though, now when I listen to these songs that were recorded in April 82, one has to think that Karen was actually getting treatment during this time for anorexia. I never really thought about it like that. I always like to imagine where Karen was in her life when she was recording her vocals.

 

[Chris May]

"She made a short trip to Los Angeles in April for a visit, during which time several rhythm tracks with work leads were recorded, including Now, You're Enough and Two Lives"

To my knowledge, this "track" was recorded during the "Made In America" sessions. I believe Ron Tutt was the studio drummer for this track, as he was for most of the "Made In America"
project. -Chris

 

[newvillefan]

I don't have the answer but perhaps someone could write Richard and ask about these descrepencies & dates? Stephen I nominate you

Hi Chris!

Two things - firstly, I take you up on that offer and will email Richard!

Secondly, yes I agree that subtle changes have been shimmied in since the first version of the biography, so no need to swear on your life, I think the details have been added since!

I also probably think like you, when trying to tie tracks down to a year, by studying the combination of session musicians listed on the liner tracks that were used for a given song - as you say, drummers Ron Tutt and Jim Gordon replaced Hal Blaine for the later MIA and Passage sessions. I especially know that when you see the names Larry Londin and Paulinha Costa, that it's MIA tracks, because they were used for those sessions only.

Let's hope we hear back the true version of events around this track!

Stephen

 

[Chris May]

Actually, now that I think about it, Ron Tutt was also the drummer on the tracks from 1982.

I still feel that "ATEOAS" was cut during "MIA". -Chris

 

[PJ]

This has always been the one song that confuses fans as to its recording period ....

With Evelyn & Richard providing different possible dates ....we remain unclear as to the actual correct period .....

Personally I tend to go with April 1982 ....the reason being that Richard with John Bettis was writing many more original songs then during his dark period of 1977-1979 ....Karen recorded several during these last Carpenters sessions & Richard issued his personal favourites on Voice Of The Heart (1983)....this continued during Karen's absence in New York ....In Love Alone plus many others were written & arranged by Richard for planned 1983 A&M studio album ... and these songs being too emotional have not been recorded on Richard's solo or production sets ...

There are other 1982 session recordings that could be issued -Richard just has to be convinced of their quality for possible release rather than issuing these tracks ....mainly due to their status as final studio tracks ....

Peter

 

[Chris May]

Well, Richard *does* mention in the "RECORDINGS" portion of his website under "Voice Of The Heart" that only "Now" and "You're Enough" were cut in April, '82.

He is quoted as saying:

"Voice Of The Heart” is a collection of two songs from what turned out to be our last recording sessions, "Now" and "You're Enough" (April 1982) and others recorded through the years."

This pretty much clears it up for me! -Chris

 

[PJ]

Really it looks like how these amended liner notes read ...definitely more 1982 recordings were completed ....Richard has mentioned these with fans questions in person ....but he does not consider these of sufficient quality to complete final work & release these tracks on a future album .....

See As Time Goes By is listed as originally released in August 2002 .....whereas it was first issued in August 2001 .....

Peter

 

[newvillefan]

Just to let you all know, I have posted the question regarding this song's origins to Becky Boxberger at the official site. Also asked about the fate of any other 1982 tracks if they exist.

Not sure if you get individual replies or just confirmation of its inclusion when the next Fans Ask is posted. Keep your eyes peeled!

www.richardandkarencarpenter.com

 

[enigma]

Well, Richard *does* mention in the "RECORDINGS" portion of his website under "Voice Of The Heart" that only "Now" and "You're Enough" were cut in April, '82.

He is quoted as saying:

"Voice Of The Heart” is a collection of two songs from what turned out to be our last recording sessions, "Now" and "You're Enough" (April 1982) and others recorded through the years."

This pretty much clears it up for me! -Chris

I'll go with that one Chris all the info submitted seems to point to that conclusion and I would tend to think that because its on the latest update of the website Richard has sorted out the recording dates and info regarding the last TWO songs that appeared on VOTH.

Stephen

Thanks for submitting those inquiry's I wish you luck on getting info on the status of the unreleased final recordings or any unreleased material for that matter. I find such info hard to come by or get straight answers on. At least Richard can straighten out any inconsistancies regarding the final tracks/recording dates on VOTH.

 

[newvillefan]

Here is the email reply I have received from Becky Boxberger, looks like we will hopefully get the definitive answer from Richard sometime soon!

Hi Stephen,

Thanks for your note. I'll email you with Richard's reply, AND add the Q&A to Fans Ask.

Sincerely,

Becky Boxberger
Personal Assistant to Richard Carpenter
www.richardandkarencarpenter.com

Stephen

 

[ullalume]

I was wrong. It was 1980. It's over. For the first time in 13 years I shall sleep well.


Neil