Astrud Gilberto

[seashorepiano]

[Astrud topic - split off from the Elis Regina topic-Moderator]

I'll look into her earlier stuff. Astrud was great w/ Walter Wanderley, thanks to his precise musicianship. Something tells me he was very clear with what he expected of her, as her voice doesn't warble nearly as much as it does on that God-forsaken "Look To the Rainbow" with Gil Evans. Not so good!

 

[walterphil]

well she's one of those singers with not great voices to begin with (marlene dietrich, edith piaf, later day billie holiday, bob dylan, neil young, etc.). (actually now that i think about it, ellis regina has a not that great range; a sort of conversational singing style.)

but what astrud lacks in voice she makes up for in attitude, sweetness and light, and, i don't know, sheer bossa nova magic....

i mean i can't think of anyone else who could sing "girl from ipanema" as well. (and maybe about a dozen other sambas.)

 

[DAN BOLTON]

There's something in Astrud's voice that sounds like a good little girl that wants to be a little bad...innocent, yet a bit of a flirt. Wholesome, yet seductive...shy, but determined. Can't help but love her, even if she is just a tad off-key...her later work seems to lose a lot of that "dissonance"; wonder if it was intentional...she still sounds playful, though...



Dan

 

[seashorepiano]

I agree with you, Dan, up to a point. The voice does sound innocent, even a little flirtatious. I'm not sure I'd call it determined or seductive, though. She's an artless singer whose carefree, gentle warbling brought her fame with Getz/Gilberto, and the Creed Taylor Effect decided to milk that for all it was worth. Personally, I think her later albums for Verve increase on that "dissonance" you mentioned. Look to the Rainbow has innumerable moments where she just struggles to carry the melody, and really ruins some nice Gil Evans arrangements. Who's heard of Windy recently? Apparently another mess. The Shadow of Your Smile seems thrown together, and the quality of each track varies. I will say "Aruanda" is nice, but only because of the carefree melody. She sounds playful, but not serious, and that's why her output in the past two decades has been of little significance lately. Sorry, but I can't really "love her" in this case.

... thinking this could be split into another thread on Astrud's vocals... and pardon my post, I've just formed some passionate opinions...

 

[Harry]

... thinking this could be split into another thread on Astrud's vocals... and pardon my post, I've just formed some passionate opinions...

Done.

My favorite Astrud Gilberto album is A CERTAIN SMILE, A CERTAIN SADNESS that she did with Walter Wanderley, though I have to admit I haven't really heard much else that she did. She and Wanda de Sah sound like twins separated at birth to me.

Harry

 

[Rudy]

I'll give her credit: I've heard newer recordings where she actually sings much better, actually in tune all of the time. In fact, she appears on "Desafinado" with George Michael, and while he seems totally out of place next to her (not sure what to do with himself beside such greatness), she nails her vocal part perfectly.

Her slightly off-key singing is actually a bit charming on her earlier recordings, since we now know she more or less accidentally fell into a recording career.

 

[walterphil]

gee i think you couldn't be more wrong

i have every album she's ever done and i find each one delightful.

the windy album in particular is fabulous.

the walter wanderly album is great, but it is because of her, not his sometimes monotonous cheesball organ playing.

the ameteurness is part of the charm of her voice.

i saw her in concert a few years ago, and she was as light and whistful as ever.

joyous and sad at the same time

sad i guess because that era is long gone

she still looked great too

walt

 

[seashorepiano]

the walter wanderly album is great, but it is because of her, not his sometimes monotonous cheesball organ playing.

So what are you saying here? That untrained singing is better than precise, meticulous playing by a classically-trained pianist/organist? How is his playing monotonous? Quite often he uses very bright registrations on the album with her that bring out the organ very well. Some nice harmonics with a Leslie chorale make for a clear sound. I would hardly say that the merit of the album A Certain Smile... is based on her vocals alone... you're making a strong claim to discredit Wanderley's fine (and trained!) musicianship.

 

[walterphil]

well don't get me wrong
i do like him

but i think at best that organ of his is high camp

a toodle de doot throwback to another era

i guess i was responding to the earlier post
that this album was a good one because of him, not her

 

[seashorepiano]

Interesting, high camp. I've heard the term used indiscriminately before. I'd like for some definitions of that term before I respond to what I think of it as it applies to Walter's playing.

 

[Trevor]

Astrud always sounded a little flat to me. She does have a certain innocence when she sings, and the song selection supports this. I think the arrangements are above average, but I can't get over the monotone flatness in which she sings...

But I am glad there are others who appreciate her.

 

[Harry]

I'd rather listen to Astrud's vocals anytime compared to today's warbly divas who use vocal gymnastics and cannot find the melody of the song to save their souls.

Harry

 

[seashorepiano]

Well, from my understanding, "camp" can mean cheesy, or low-class. I respect that opinion, but personally just don't see how it can apply to Wanderley's music. If anything, the first time I heard his jabs at the organ I was amazed by the clarity and crispness of the sound, and how it had a nice rhythm. But anyway, I guess we'll agree to disagree.

I agree with you, Harry, regarding Astrud's vocals. While she's not a favorite by any means, I definitely would listen to her over some of the divas today who either lip-synch or just screech the whole time (thoughts of Avril Lavigne come to mind). But isn't it interesting how artlessness sells?

 

[Rudy]

I'd rather listen to Astrud's vocals anytime compared to today's warbly divas who use vocal gymnastics and cannot find the melody of the song to save their souls.

Harry

That, and the fact that many singers today can't even carry a tune and sing in tune...which is why engineers now use a plugin for Pro Tools called Auto Tune. Another crutch for the recording industry to use on today's marginal talent.

http://www.antarestech.com/products/auto-tune4.shtml

And you'd be surprised to find out that many top selling artists need it! Some go on tour and have one or two staffers whose sole job is to run the Auto Tune!

 

[walterphil]

well, as i said, i do like wanderly as a musician
and i don't think camp always means low class.
to me it certainly means 1. fun and 2. (perhaps) unintentionally (or not) funny
i think what i meant in this sense was that his organ sounds unintentionally funny.
campy. (like say, the andrews sisters maybe?) (ok, maybe bad example cause they knew they were funny--how bout ethel merman?) (don't get me started, cause i love the merm too!)

i guess it's more the sound of the organ that he chose to play
rather than what he is playing.

i mean no one plays that kind of wurlitzer anymore, do they?
it sounds like a skating rink accompaniment to real brasilian music.
funny. delightful. camp.

 

[seashorepiano]

i guess it's more the sound of the organ that he chose to play
rather than what he is playing.

i mean no one plays that kind of wurlitzer anymore, do they?

Walter didn't play a Wurlitzer organ on any of his US recordings. He exclusively played Hammond, and most likely a B-3 at that, with Leslie speaker. He did, however, play a Wurlitzer piano on Kee-Ka-Roo and Popcorn. Contrary to what you've said, the Hammond B-3 is actually still very popular and has become increasingly so within the past decade. It is the instrument of choice for a wide range of jazz organists. Have you heard of Joey Defrancesco, Lonnie Liston Smith, Medeski/Martin/Wood?

it sounds like a skating rink accompaniment to real brasilian music.
funny. delightful. camp.

This is a comment that I've seen often, that he plays like a skating rink and/or roller rink organist. To me, that couldn't be farther from the truth. He uses a variety of crisp registrations, as I've already said, and makes use of complex harmonic playing and improvisation. I really don't see how that possibly compares to the usual perception of a roller-rink organist who plays with the same dull, overexposed sound.

Funny? Maybe amusing, when you consider some of the other percussion instruments he accompanied. Delightful? Certainly, because of his inventiveness and spunk. Camp? No.

 

[Harry]

The CBS SUNDAY MORNING NEWS just did a feature on the fact that the most famous bossa nova tune, "The Girl From Ipanema" was recorded 43 years ago this weekend.

Harry

 

[walterphil]

that's great
what a great record.
started it all (over here) wouldn't you say?

 

[seashorepiano]

It's pretty certain that "The Girl from Ipanema" will always be Astrud's most famous song, eclipsing some of her better efforts (i.e., A Certain Smile, A Certain Sadness, which IMHO has far better vocals on her part than Getz/Gilberto.)

 

[walterphil]

well my goodness, sure

she did girl from ipanema when she was right off the boat!

 

[nightcat]

I've always liked Astrud Gilberto. Sometimes a voice that is less than perfect can be more appealing than someone with a near perfect voice. I think she has a certain sweet personality that comes thru with her songs. To me, it's kind of a "dreamy" voice. I like most of her Verve albums. I think Corcovado and Only Trust Your Heart from Getz A Go Go are teriffic. I love the cool arrangement of Let Go (canto de ossanha). Her quiet rendition of Manha De Carnival is really nice... ditto for Misty Roses.

The album with Wanderley I like as it has a nice song selection.

 

[DAN BOLTON]

I just recently picked up her COMPACT JAZZ album after hearing AGUA DE BEBER in the background during the INDIAN SUMMER episode of MAD MEN, from the destined-to-be-a-classic "washing machine" scene. Never mind that the show, which takes place in 1960, was featuring a song in it's soundtrack that wasn't recorded until 1965...it really made the scene.

The album is a little disappointing sound-wise, but it was culled from several different releases, and some of it was recorded live in the '60's, so it really so objectionable, given the limitations of some of the sources. It was supposedly remastered, but it was also kinda cheap...I can't really complain.

I think the "dissonance" made her recordings rather charming, for lack of a better word...and it was a trademark for her, it worked well; so, she stuck with it for a long time.

And as for Wanderly, I have a Roland XP 80 with a Keyboards of the '60's expansion card that has a bunch of B3 patches, and I've never been able to even come close to his sound, but then, I don't have drawbars to work with.

For some sweet B3, try HERE WE GO AGAIN from the Ray Charles album GENIUS LOVES COMPANY, played by the great Billy Preston.


Dan

 

[seashorepiano]

This is an old topic, but Dan mentioned how he tried to figure out Wanderley's registration (a.k.a. drawbar combination) on the Hammond. The closest I've been able to approximate his Rain Forest and general '60s sound is this: by pulling out the 16' drawbar fully, and the 4' drawbar almost halfway, with no Leslie or vibrato.