Carpenters Weaker "Second Half"
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FreddieB
Member
After 'Horizon' it seems nothing was going right for them. Although a attractive album sleeve, I was appalled by how Karen looked on the 'Hush' album. Why... did nobody have eye shadow and lipstick that day and her hair looks like straw on the inner sleeve, not fair to her at all. If I would have been Jerry or Herb, I would have asked them to go back into the studio (to replace old foggy tracks Goofus, I have you and Smile without You) and also reshoot the album pictures with Karen made up as pretty as Linda Ronstadt/Stevie Nicks were.
Freddie
Freddie
FreddieB
Member
Just to clarify, as I tried to edit my previous post, because I thought it is a bit too harsh. I wasn't criticizing Karen as I still consider her hot as hell. The trouble was Now & then, The Singles and Horizon made them into a sensation and 'Hush' just seemed too reserved compared to those albums. Some would say that at the point of The Singles album they became real teen idols (I agree with this). I remember this well and let us not forget that 'Hush' was still a big hit single, but maybe they were trying to appear all grown up too soon? It is like they were trying to appeal more to the grandparents crowd than the young adult/teenagers, but maybe someone forgot that us younger folk were the one buying their records in droves.
Freddie
Freddie
1979lee
Well-Known Member
Yes that would be AWSOME!!!
When The Man Retired for the first time, (FRANK SINATRA) was that man.
he closed his final show with "angel eyes".... excuse me.... while i Disapear..................
he faded out and did no encore.. just Poof!
POWERFULL STUFF.
I hold Karen and FS On the same vocal level. both 100% tops
newvillefan
I Know My First Name Is Stephen
This reminds me of Fleetwood Mac concerts of years gone by. They'd finish with 'Go Your Own Way' and 'Don't Stop', then just when you think it's all over, Christine McVie came back on stage completely on her own, spotlighted at the piano and gave a solo rendition of 'Songbird', with the rest of the band watching her from the wings. This is exactly how I'd envisage what you say about 'Eventide'.
It's an interesting metaphor you make between the music on A Kind of Hush and the inner sleeve photo. I've always hated that picture - Karen looks drawn and washed out (there are much better pictures from the same photo session, so baffling why this one was used). The same lack of vitality is evident on the album. Probably just coincidence, although I'd suggest that it was symptomatic of them and A&M still not having a handle on their image. The same is true of Horizon - great cover photo but then (and even taking into account that this was the 1970s) them wearing horrible 'sibling' jumpers on the inner sleeve that looked like a relative had knitted them. And that awful photo was used again on the cover of the 40/40 compilation!
Mark-T
Well-Known Member
FreddieB, I really agree with this: "I remember this well and let us not forget that 'Hush' was still a big hit single, but maybe they were trying to appear all grown up too soon? It is like they were trying to appeal more to the grandparents crowd than the young adult/teenagers, but maybe someone forgot that us younger folk were the one buying their records in droves."
Karen was only 25 becoming 26 soon when the Hush single was released. Still very youthful. As much as I love it, Hush the album (and Horizon, for that matter), feel like mid-life - 40s and 50s- records. Maybe they had just peaked early creatively. Or - and I like this better- they both were incredibly gifted for their time.
Karen was only 25 becoming 26 soon when the Hush single was released. Still very youthful. As much as I love it, Hush the album (and Horizon, for that matter), feel like mid-life - 40s and 50s- records. Maybe they had just peaked early creatively. Or - and I like this better- they both were incredibly gifted for their time.
Couldn't agree more. I wish they would have taken an approach more like Streisand in that part of her career....She was in her mid-20s doing music (lovely, but still) that appealed to people in their 40s and 50s. She made an album called "What About Today" of contemporary songs, but still sort of done in her established style, It flopped. But instead of retreating to the familiar, she went full bore into contemporary pop, hiring Richard Perry, recording songs like "Stoney End", changing her look for the album cover - and it paid off big, redefining her as an artist. She was a huge force in pop music for the next ten years.......wish they would have been able to do that and sad for everything that worked against them......
Rick-An Ordinary Fool
Well-Known Member
I really agree with you guys ^^
The Offering album as well as Close to You, Carpenters and A Song For You all emit this younger feel, the songs, everything about those album just make me feel like this was a young group and I could easily identify. I don't think it as so much that Karen had this raw early sound, it was more than that....the songs and just the whole feel of the albums just had something that appealed to me as a young guy.
I think things turned when Now and Then appeared, it was the oldies that brought in a different audience. I'm sure there were young people that liked the oldies back in 73/74 but they lost there edgier feel from the prior records in doing so. I love Horizon and they still caught my attention but when Hush came...the sound really turned more to an older feel, the music seemed to play toward a older audience, this was a mistake because the Carpenters were still young, vibrant and should have been making a record to fit where they were age wise. I think once they did the oldies album, they could not let go of the oldies stuff and they never gained the ground they had when they did songs like, Goodbye to Love, Top of the World, Close to You, Ticket to Ride, Hurting Each Other, Rainy Days & Mondays. I could never understand how they could record such awesome timeless tracks like these, I mean huge songs and then record an album like Hush, it's like doing a 360 music wise.
The Offering album as well as Close to You, Carpenters and A Song For You all emit this younger feel, the songs, everything about those album just make me feel like this was a young group and I could easily identify. I don't think it as so much that Karen had this raw early sound, it was more than that....the songs and just the whole feel of the albums just had something that appealed to me as a young guy.
I think things turned when Now and Then appeared, it was the oldies that brought in a different audience. I'm sure there were young people that liked the oldies back in 73/74 but they lost there edgier feel from the prior records in doing so. I love Horizon and they still caught my attention but when Hush came...the sound really turned more to an older feel, the music seemed to play toward a older audience, this was a mistake because the Carpenters were still young, vibrant and should have been making a record to fit where they were age wise. I think once they did the oldies album, they could not let go of the oldies stuff and they never gained the ground they had when they did songs like, Goodbye to Love, Top of the World, Close to You, Ticket to Ride, Hurting Each Other, Rainy Days & Mondays. I could never understand how they could record such awesome timeless tracks like these, I mean huge songs and then record an album like Hush, it's like doing a 360 music wise.
Guitarmutt
Well-Known Member
Thought? What is the difference between old and mature? It's a fine line I'd venture, and mature has a learning curve.
I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt: that they were maturing, searching. Plus, they were tired, and I think Hush reflects that. They sound tired. Maybe listened to in that light is, well, enlightening.
Of course, saying that, I also tend towards their first recordings including a lot of the stuff from before Offering.
I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt: that they were maturing, searching. Plus, they were tired, and I think Hush reflects that. They sound tired. Maybe listened to in that light is, well, enlightening.
Of course, saying that, I also tend towards their first recordings including a lot of the stuff from before Offering.
GaryAlan
Well-Known Member
Perhaps of little relevance, but I noticed while watching the DVD Close To You: Remembering the Carpenters,
(last night) that the folks who run up to Karen and Richard in the airport for an autograph (video : "I Need to Be In Love")
are pretty much 'older folks'. It really hit home that ( included in the promo film for whatever reason)
here we have two rather elderly women scrambling for the duo's autograph,
when heretofore I was used to seeing a crowd of 'all ages, young to old' scrambling for autographs.
Also, in watching this DVD , the difference evident in Karen's appearance at her wedding,
compared to her physical health on the "Touch Me When We're Dancing" promo scared the heck out of me.
But, it does seem to ring true, as detailed in this thread, that the Hush album ushered, or signaled, a change.
(Notice, too, in regards to this documentary, John Bettis emphatically states: "Karen loved her solo album,
he and Richard were "tepid" , and the record company was against 'putting it out".)
(last night) that the folks who run up to Karen and Richard in the airport for an autograph (video : "I Need to Be In Love")
are pretty much 'older folks'. It really hit home that ( included in the promo film for whatever reason)
here we have two rather elderly women scrambling for the duo's autograph,
when heretofore I was used to seeing a crowd of 'all ages, young to old' scrambling for autographs.
Also, in watching this DVD , the difference evident in Karen's appearance at her wedding,
compared to her physical health on the "Touch Me When We're Dancing" promo scared the heck out of me.
But, it does seem to ring true, as detailed in this thread, that the Hush album ushered, or signaled, a change.
(Notice, too, in regards to this documentary, John Bettis emphatically states: "Karen loved her solo album,
he and Richard were "tepid" , and the record company was against 'putting it out".)
That's why Karen is often referred to as "the female Sinatra".
Offering absolutely does have alot more energy than some of the later material-but several tracks on that album are still "inconsequential"-particularly the RC lead tracks.Even Richard has conceded that "Offering" is a product of it's time-and there were many things about the album that he would've redone.
"All I Can Do" is an amazing piece of swinging jazz(in 5/4 time)-and "Someday" & "All Of My Life" are exquisite ballads-but not much else on "Offering" is particularly noteworthy.
newvillefan
I Know My First Name Is Stephen
Imagine if they'd done what they set out to do and re-recorded tracks like 'Someday' properly in the 1980s. Karen's version on MMM is exquisite. I'm sure anyone watching that show back in 1980 who didn't know of the original track must have wondered where the song came from. Other songs from their early years I'd like to have seen re-imagined a la Music Music Music would be:
Any others?
- All Of My Life
- Eve
- (A Place To) Hideaway
- Bacharach/David Medley (the entire thing, not the Tan album version)
Any others?
K&R were actually planning to redo some of the "Ticket To Ride" tracks in 1982-but those plans were cancelled due to Karen's extended therapy sessions in NY.
K&R were also talking about doing some Bossa Nova tracks in 1982(following their Brasil tour in late 1981)-as well as some possible standard material("I Get Along Without You Very Well").
K&R were also talking about doing some Bossa Nova tracks in 1982(following their Brasil tour in late 1981)-as well as some possible standard material("I Get Along Without You Very Well").
newvillefan
I Know My First Name Is Stephen
Bossa Nova in 1982? If that's true, it convinces me even more that their career would have taken the same path as artists like Barry Manilow. No longer chart acts, put out an album of their choosing now and then, tour now and then...and that's it. Imagine if that had been their fate? What a waste of Karen's talent as a vocalist.
This is the biggest problem I have with Richard's choice of material by 1982. 'Now' and 'You're Enough' were pretty album tracks, but nothing more. By this point Richard definitely seemed to have taken his finger off the pulse when it came to material that would be commercially viable for them at that point in their career. By his own admission, they were still looking/hoping for a song that would crack the top end of the charts again. 'Touch Me When We're Dancing' narrowly failed, but of all the other 1981/1982 tracks (and outtakes), I can't think of one song that was destined to be commercially viable or single material. It's almost reminiscent of ABBA - Benny and Bjorn at least recognised that by 1982, tracks such as 'The Day Before You Came' were now anachronistic and its chart placing (#32 in the UK, the place it mattered the most to them) at least proved they had the wisdom to wind the band down at the right time.
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song4u
Well-Known Member
Really?? I think Karen would have been awesome at Bossa Nova. They were obviously interested in their fan base in Brazil. Perhaps they still had higher sales there.
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