HERB ALPERT & THE TJB CHRISTMAS ALBUM: Comments + poll

[ultraJC]

Hopefully I'm not off topic here but, the original credits for this album say it was recorded at Gold Star and A&M. Does anyone know which tunes or any other session details? Could it be that most of the album was cut at A&M with the exception of "Las Mananitas" which was recorded some time before (1965?)? Now that I have it on CD (I never owned the A&M version on CD, only the vinyl), it seems pretty consistent sonically, but sounds different to my ears compared to those that came before (Ninth, Beat.....) which leads me to the above speculation.

BTW, love the extra photos in this one - but who is that watching over Herb at the mixing console?


John

 

[Ed Bishop]

They're all very good, but "My Favorite Things" has been my fave since '68, so....

 

[Rudy]

Hopefully I'm not off topic here but, the original credits for this album say it was recorded at Gold Star and A&M. Does anyone know which tunes or any other session details? Could it be that most of the album was cut at A&M with the exception of "Las Mananitas" which was recorded some time before (1965?)?

"Las Mananitas" sounds to me like it was recorded around the time of South Of The Border since the sonics are so similar. (And it also appeared on a Baja Marimba album around the same time...same song, different mix or take.) Still, Border was also recorded at Gold Star. I'd just attribute it to different engineering at the different sessions. Although A&M had their own studios, Herb mentions in one of the CD booklets that working at Gold Star was very comfortable.

 

[TonyCurrie]

A couple of observations.

Firstly, "Las Mananitas" appeared in the UK on a 1966 EP (the other tracks were all taken from 'Going Places') so I have always regarded it as being a TJB track from the Whipped/Going period. And never gave it any Christmas connotations!! Great to hear it in stereo now, and in contrast to many others here, it's one of my favourite tracks on the disc - but then that's probably because as a teenager, I played my EPs to death before I could afford to buy LPs!!

Now the Shorty Rogers vocals. I was listening to the disc in a BBC studio yesterday, and a colleague joined me to have a listen. We both agreed that the singers are very similar - both vocally and harmonically - to the PAMS jingle singers. In fact, a little editing and we turned some of the vocal cuts into very acceptable radio jingles. I guess that since the acapella style was extremely popular for radio idents at the time, it probably influenced Herb and Shorty to produce something radio-friendly!

 

[whippedflea]

You folks are gonna hate me, but outside of "My Favorite Things," I really just consider this album a write off. Artistically, it was a bad move too. Overall, Christmas albums were on the way out by 1964, the trend didn't really return until the early 1990's - with two exceptions, the Carpenters and Manneheim Steamroller. Now, everybody makes holiday albums again.

I've always thought that Herb's Christmas album, coming on the heels of the somewhat campy "Beat Of The Brass" TV special, combined to put him in that "music for your mom and dad" category. The Christmas album was definitely the beginning of Herb being thought of as "not as hip as they were" and the youth following the TJB had was starting to evaporate. Certainly, the downward slope of the records that followed is kind of evident. I can honestly say that "My Favorite Things" was the last Alpert single I heard on local radio until "Foxhunt."

 

[Ed Bishop]

You folks are gonna hate me, but outside of "My Favorite Things," I really just consider this album a write off. Artistically, it was a bad move too. Overall, Christmas albums were on the way out by 1964, the trend didn't really return until the early 1990's - with two exceptions, the Carpenters and Manneheim Steamroller. Now, everybody makes holiday albums again.

An absurd statement. Everyone from the Partridge Family and the Jackson Five to The Salsoul Orchestra to George Winston released popular Xmas albums between the Carpenters and Mannheim Steamroller... Indeed, Christmas music has been a regular seller since recorded sound moved to 78's; never been any lulls whatsoever, the only changes being in where and how Billboard tabulated and placed charted albums(some years a separate chart; in more modern times, integrated with the Billboard Top Lp's or 200.

 

[Rudy]

I have quite a few Xmas albums from all decades--I haven't seen any lull. But I DID notice during the late 80s and beyond, it seems that anyone started putting out Xmas albums, to where there were too many out there IMHO. I probably own over 90 Xmas CDs, maybe closer to 100 at this point, and I've cut myself back to purchasing maybe two or three a year. This year, it's the new TJB reissues, Diana Krall's, and the new Brian Setzer Orchestra CD. Oh, and that Target sampler mentioned above. For $5, can't go wrong.

 

[Mike Blakesley]

In the 70s, it used to be that no "hip" artist or band would put out a Christmas album -- maybe a novelty single, but an album? Never! But when Mannheim hit, suddenly the $$$ lit up in everyone's eyes and the holiday album was cool again. George Winston's was not a Christmas album, it was a winter album (in fact the liner notes say that the songs are not meant to convey any religious beliefs).

Rumors over at the Alan Parsons forum are that he's considering doing a Christmas album, which I think has the potential to be magnificent.

 

[Ed Bishop]

Too bad for George that DECEMBER became a Christmas album despite his wishes........and it has a fascinating chart history. First charted 3/12/83, eventually peaked at #54(it would get no higher)and ran for 135 weeks. Dropped out for a little bit, returned November '86, and then the following three December's(heh)for a grand total of 178 chart weeks. This is not counting its holiday appearances on the separate Xmas charts from 1985 to the present. So whatever George's intentions were, the public embraced it as a holiday Lp. I'm sure the continued royalties have helped him cope...

 

[Rudy]

I actually find that "December" evokes more of a holiday mood for me than many so-called "Xmas" albums. I really don't like how some of the recent pop signers slaughter Xmas classics.

 

[Mike Blakesley]

Same here. Modern female singers are especially brutal to the classics.

 

[DAN BOLTON]

How do some of you classify Vangelis' OPERA SAUVAGE? I always thought of it as a Christmas album...I play it at Christmas time, anyway...it seems to me to be a tone poem[or a collection of...] depicting the life of Jesus.

Any thoughts?


Dan

 

[BBrownlie]

I have to agree with Ed. Even The Beatles were putting together annual Christmas EPs for their official fan club through 1969. Even if these were not for sale on the retail level, it shows even The Beatles would take the time and effort to put something together (and they are quite collectible).

There are many examples of so-called 'hip' artists doing Christmas time recordings or acknowledging Christmas on their non-Holiday LPs - for example, The Rolling Stones on the LP 'Their Satanic Majesties Request'; after the last track on side one completes a strange electronic snippet appears - if you have the vinyl and can play it at 78, it becomes "We Wish You A Merry Christmas". Ah, those silly, 'hip' rock groups.

I don't see Alpert's Christmas album as a write-off at all. No matter how quickly a recording comes together, it's the idea and completion of that idea that tells me that Alpert put a lot of thought into this and was able to pull off one of the better Christmas albums of all time.

Barry

 

[Ed Bishop]

Had Herb's album been meant as a quickie for the market, he coulda done it in '65 or '66 when the iron was really hot, rather than '68. Guess he just felt that was the right time.

 

[spanky1]

I saw in the liner notes where Shorty Rogers is credited with the vocal arrangement on this lp. Please pardon my ignorance on this, but did he have his own group, or was he merely the arranger?

The reason that I ask is because I'm a closet fan of the Anita Kerry Singers. The opening vocals in the first couple of track sound exactly like the AKS. She had moved operations from Nashville to LA by this time as well. If interested, Collectors Choice Music re-issued a nice two-fer from this period on the Dot label. One of the lp's is the Burt Bacharach lp which she does a nice job on.

Michael H.

 

[Rudy]

How do some of you classify Vangelis' OPERA SAUVAGE? I always thought of it as a Christmas album...I play it at Christmas time, anyway...it seems to me to be a tone poem[or a collection of...] depicting the life of Jesus.

Any thoughts?

The Nutcracker is a holiday staple. I think it was Les Brown who did a big band arrangement of it, and Brian Setzer does it during his Christmas Extravaganza tour also. I haven't seen Nutcracker in person or know the story behind it, but it always comes up around Christmas. My favorite (to bring this full circle ) is the Shorty Rogers album The Swingin' Nutcracker, from the 50s. Nutcracker with west coast "cool".

 

[daveK]

The remaster of the Christmas album has made me fall in love with it all over again the same way I did when I first heard the LP in the mid-80s. The A&M CD was hard to listen to because it seemed like the tape hiss was louder than the music sometimes. They've managed to tone down the hiss considerably without compromising the music in any way.
I added the Herb Alpert/Jeff Lorber collaboration of "Winter Wonderland" as a bonus track on my copy that I play in the car.
But overall, the album is perfect from start to finish.

 

[DAN BOLTON]

I saw in the liner notes where Shorty Rogers is credited with the vocal arrangement on this lp. Please pardon my ignorance on this, but did he have his own group, or was he merely the arranger?


Michael H.

Shorty was best-known for his jazz combo from the mid-to-late-'50's, Shorty Rogers and His Giants. By 1962, he had basically retired from performing until the late '80's. He was a trumpet player and an arranger who worked with a lot of big names, primarily as an arranger. His work with Herb goes back before the TJB was formed, and Herb was still doing vocal work.

A good source for info on Shorty [and a lot of other artists of this era] is www.spaceagepop.com.


Dan

 

[Tim Neely]

The Shout! Factory reissue of the Christmas Album read 32:03 of total time while the A&M label read 32:24 on the CD. What is the difference???

Harry explained the difference above: The original CD was mastered too slow. The new CD is the correct speed (that is, it matches the original vinyl LP).

 

[Ed Bishop]

A small thing, but very glad it's finally been fixed.

 

[Chinese Sausage]

I'm gonna try (again) and get the album today . If I get it I'll post my observation for the CD. Wish me luck!

 

[Numero Cinco]

I'm gonna try (again) and get the album today. … Wish me luck!

Good luck, Mr. Sausage. :bigsanta:

I love Herb Alpert and the Brass. And I am a bona fide sucker for Christmas music. All that is why I wish I enjoyed this album more than I can make myself. Here are some reasons for my discontent.

1. Oil and water don't mix; neither does The Brass and this seasonal genre. This, for me, is the weakest of my own reasons, the easiest for me to dispute. On its face, Stan Kenton's Big Band would seem to have almost nothing in common with Christmas music; yet his own Christmas album boasts (to my taste) some incredible charts that are unmistakably Kenton. It's not that Herb's album is any the less distinctive: This album is his sound, all right. What I miss, however—on most of its tracks—is fresh insight into familiar melodies.

2. Missed opportunities among song selections. Here I'm not faulting Herb's opting for secular rather than sacred songs. The latter would likely have been even more ill-fitting to The Brass's treatment. (And yet I think "Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring" is tastefully done—if only the lead performer's lip had been in better shape at that point.) No, I'm thinking of songs like "Silver Bells," "White Christmas," "I'll Be Home for Christmas," and "Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas"—any of which could have been beautifully transposed into the Alpert sensibility, none of which appear here. With only ten tracks, the original LP could surely have accommodated one or more of them, minus some novelties that made the cut.

3. Arrangements that don't quite gel. The Shorty Rogers intros and accompaniments, with the PAMS jinglers (thanks, Tony!), are quietly harmonic and often inventive (with cute quotations from songs mercifully unperformed, like "The Twelve Days of Christmas" and "Christmas Bells"). Yet those intros seem to me often detached from what they are introducing.

4. Arrangements that misfire, like "Sleigh Ride." Usually, I stand in jaw-dropping awe at Mr. A.'s arrangements of standards. With "Sleigh Ride," especially that "vaudeville cake-walk" section after the drum-roll, I can't figure out what the hell he was trying to do.

5. Concepts we've heard before, with other tracks on other albums: I enjoy "Jingle Bell Rock," a perfect TJB adaptation, but, with "Mame" and "Freckles," I feel like I've heard it before. Herb's "sprung" rhythm for the 3/4-time "My Favorite Things" sounds to my ear repetitive of his similar trick with the 9/8 "A-Mer-I-Ca," which we may never hear on CD if Herb doesn't put his signature on Volume 2. Come to think of it: His clever lead-in to that Bernstein stage-song was "Jingle Bells"!

My wife and I jokingly refer to the closing bars of Herb's "Favorite Things" as "A James Bond Christmas," since the repetitive chord structure of the backing strings mirrors that of the famous theme by Monty Norman (or John Barry; take your choice).

Am I happy to have this CD back in print, remastered at its slightly faster tempo? You bet. The original cover and lettering are a joy to behold, and this time we were spared Mr. What's-His-Name for more intelligent liner notes.

Do I regret having bought my usual threefer of this reissue? Not at all.

Will I still play this at Christmas? Of course. Like all albums I grew up hearing, especially at Christmas, it's part of my life's soundtrack.

Do I think it's Herb at his finest? Not a chance.

Did I vote for a favorite track? Yep: "Las Mañanitas." It's not especially seasonal. It's a lovely melody, beautifully arranged TJB, harking back to the pure sound of South of the Border.

 

[DAN BOLTON]

SLEIGH RIDE is a tone poem, depicting a...what else?...sleigh ride. The ride starts out at a saunter; the ride becomes very scenic and romantic; then the sleigh is going up a hill[and a rather steep one, at that...] that strains every drop of strength from the horse; it comes back down again at breakneck speed; and, finally...the sleigh is going down the main thoroughfare in town, past the lights and decorated shops...not to mention all the friends and fellow townspeople waving and wishing warm holiday thoughts.

It's all in the music.



Dan

 

[Numero Cinco]

SLEIGH RIDE is a tone poem, depicting a...what else?...sleigh ride. … [F]inally...the sleigh is going down the main thoroughfare in town, past the lights and decorated shops...not to mention all the friends and fellow townspeople waving and wishing warm holiday thoughts.

I take your point, but is the latter part of the poem my vaudvillian cake-walk? Most of the people in the town where I live don't acknowledge me with a buck-and-wing, waving their canes and straw-skimmers.

It would be nice if they did. Most in my town don't acknowledge me at all.

 

[Dave]

Yes, "Sleigh Ride" has a very underrated arrangement--and dropping a line from "12-Days Of Christmas (Partridge In A Pear Tree)" into it, as well... It wouldn't be Christmas without it... ...Or without ONE...! :santa:

...Most of the people in the town where I live don't acknowledge me with a buck-and-wing, waving their canes and straw-skimmers... ...Most in my town don't acknowledge me at all...

...Whenever I go out, the people always SHOUT...! Oops! Sorry, that's another song!


Dave