Herb Alpert & The TJB - VOLUME 2 Comments + Reviews

[Harry]

The long awaited VOLUME 2 in the Herb Alpert Signature Series has been officially re-released in the USA as a download-only album available from iTunes. Tell us your favorite track, how you think the remastered album sounds, and give us your overall opinion.

Please do not use this thread to comment on the fact that the album isn't available on CD, but rather keep your comments about the actual sound of the album and the music contained within it.

 

[Mike Blakesley]

I haven't heard this album in over 35 years, and I had NEVER heard it all the way through and in the proper sequence until I got this download. I had it on an 8-track tape in the early 1970s and when that tape clogged up, I never bought the LP or the original CD release.

I almost didn't buy this, because I really don't like the LONELY BULL album very much, but I figured I would like to complete my collection and I do really like the song "Marching Thru Madrid," so what the heck.

Listening to it the other night, I was blown away by how much I enjoyed it! I think it's a much better album than LONELY BULL, if for no other reason than Herb has more of a sense of direction here, whereas the LB album was more "all over the map" musically.

I have a hard time picking a favorite, but I have to go with "America" because it's been a favorite song ever since I first heard it, in an edited version, on a GREATEST HITS 8-track. "Marching Thru Madrid" comes in a (very) close second; every time it fades, I wish it wasn't fading yet.

I also enjoy "Winds of Barcelona," but I am partial to the slower version that popped up on the next album as "El Presidente."

Since I have nothing to compare it to, the sound quality on this download version seems very good. The "America" version sounds about the same to me as on my GREATEST HITS CD, and "Marching" is much improved over the version on CLASSICS VOL. 1.

If you liked the jazzy side of the Brass as revealed in albums like SRO and onward, or the more rockin' Brass we heard in GOING PLACES and WHIPPED CREAM, but were put off by the formative sound on LONELY BULL, you might be surprised how much you like this album. I know I was. I was ready to listen once and set it aside, but I"m sure I'll be revisiting it frequently now that I've "really" heard it.

 

[Harry]

This is an album I'd skipped originally back in the '60s. When I discovered the TjB around the time of WHIPPED CREAM/GOING PLACES, I found that I needed to go back and get the back items in the catalog. So first was SOUTH OF THE BORDER, the album that immediately preceded WHIPPED CREAM. Then I got THE LONELY BULL in mono, I suppose to save the buck difference for the stereo.

By then WHAT NOW MY LOVE was coming out, with S.R.O. and SOUNDS LIKE following in what seemed like quick succession. It was hard to keep up, yet I knew there was a VOLUME 2 back there somewhere that I needed to get.

Around the time of NINTH, I think, my older sister was working for a local department store called S. KLEIN On The Square. I gave her some money I'd saved up and she was going to use her employee discount to get me a copy of VOLUME 2. I remember it was on a Friday evening as the family headed for our summer cottage for the weekend that we stopped to pick her up, and she handed me VOLUME 2. I was mildly disappointed that she'd only gotten a mono copy, but it wasn't the end of the world.

At the cottage and throughout the entire weekend, I only had access to a neighbor's phonograph, one of those boxy things with a big speaker on one side, but at least I was able to listen to this "new" album.

I was somewhat shocked at first to hear all the "party" atmosphere on the album. It seemed to me upon first listen that the hooting and hollering and clapping went through the entire album. Later on, of course, I realized that it was only a few select tracks that have that atmosphere. Instantly I recognized "Winds Of Barcelona" as being the more familiar "El Presidente" on the SOUTH OF THE BORDER album, and I knew the song "America" too, from having studied it in music class in school.

"Spanish Harlem" was a familiar song from pop radio, as was "More." And I swore at the time that the melody to "Milord" was familiar to me from somewhere.

Over the years, VOLUME 2 always seemed to me to be the runt of the litter - not quite as original as THE LONELY BULL sounded, and not quite "up-to-snuff" like SOUTH OF THE BORDER and beyond.

Yet in 1988, I bought VOLUME 2 on CD that fateful day when I saw all of the first six albums out along with BEAT OF THE BRASS. And fortunately, I'd already gotten S.R.O. and WHIPPED CREAM as an import, so I only had to buy six discs that expensive day.

Over the years, I've rarely dug out VOLUME 2 to play as an album, but I'd use it selectively to hear a track or two, or to use one of them in a compilation I was making.

The "metallic" sound that Herb's been quoted as attributing to VOLUME 2, seems to come from its early mastering on CD. Whoever was responsible for that mastering got it wrong in not taming the excessive treble sounds and by leaving the bassline fairly ignored. The new iTunes mastering seems to have largely corrected that oversight as the album now sounds more listenable to me without the ear-piercing harshness it once had.

"Winds Of Barcelona" remains my favorite track on the album.

Harry

 

[manifan]

With all the people who were clamoring to have this re-released, I'm shocked there aren't a ton of comments over here.

Volume II has never been one of my favorites, but I am grateful for the chance to have it in digital form at last. I never bought it on CD when it came out, which is probably a good thing, since I imagine these songs sound much better in this release than they did on the original CD. And I do love "A-me-ri-ca" and "Green Leaves of Summer."

 

[Captaindave]

"
Over the years, VOLUME 2 always seemed to me to be the runt of the litter - not quite as original as THE LONELY BULL sounded, and not quite "up-to-snuff" like SOUTH OF THE BORDER and beyond.

"Winds Of Barcelona" remains my favorite track on the album.

Harry

My first exposure to Volume 2 cam with the Longines Symphonette Society's box set of the first four TJB albums.

I agree with the above comment as it seemed to me that Volume 2 stands as the transition between the Lonely Bull and South of the Border where, IMO, the TJB are fully up and running with the beginning of the sound and style that made them famous. It seems that Volume 2 was a "marking time" effort while the project was developing into its ultimate form with South of the Border.

I like Volume 2 on its own merit, but not in the same way I like the later albums where the sound has become exciting and real "sixties." I like the songs, sound, and overall playing better in later albums. When I think of the TJB sound and style, Volume 2 is not what comes to mind, but it is a needed part of any Herb Alpert collection, so I am glad it is available.

Winds of Barcelona is by far my favorite tune from Volume 2, and I would very much like to see it surface some day as a "lost treasure" with a little updated treatment. I remember Winds performed in concert with a little bit more of a rock and roll sound than the recording - something similar was done with the Lonely Bull.

 

[Captain Bacardi]

I used to play this album a lot in my younger days. Today, it doesn't impress me quite as much. The one thing I did like on this album was that Herb's trumpet was very lively and he was nailing everything. It sounds like he was trying to copy the success of The Lonely Bull with these sparse arrangements, and for the most part they worked.

My favorite tune is "Winds Of Barcelona". I've always liked the way this song flows. "The Great Manolete" is another fave, although I like the 45 mix of this song better. When this does eventually get released on CD I would like to see the 45 version of "Manolete" added as a bonus track. Other favorites include "More", "Surfin' Senorita" and "Swinger From Seville".

The one track I despised is "Milord". I'm not sure what Herb was trying to accomplish with this song, but it sounded like they had way too much tequila when recording it. "Green Leaves Of Summer" is a little too dramatic for my taste, and "Crea Mi Amor" did little for me.

I will say this for the iTunes version of this album - it sounds better than the 80's CD. It sounds as if Herb actually warmed the recording a bit. It's not quite as sterile sounding as the CD, although there still is plenty of room for improvement. I'll give this 3 stars out of 5.



Capt. Bacardi

 

[Rudy]

I agree that the earlier versions of the album had a metallic quality to them--I'll be looking forward to hearing the iTunes version one day. I do know that the LP also had the same metallic sound to it--I'm quite sure that A&M just used an existing LP production master to make the CD.

I have two stereo versions of the LP--one is an early pressing with the original back cover (still sealed!), where the other is the later grey one with a larger pic of Herb on the back. Part of me doesn't want to open the first-pressing LP, but the other part wants to open it and compare to the '88 CD I have.

 

[Mike Blakesley]

I agree with the above comment as it seemed to me that Volume 2 stands as the transition between the Lonely Bull and South of the Border where, IMO, the TJB are fully up and running with the beginning of the sound and style that made them famous.

I have always thought that Herb recorded this very Mexican-flavored album simply in response to "The Lonely Bull" being such a smash. In a way, it was lucky that the album was a non-megaseller; it probably helped prompt Herb to go to more of a rock'n'roll approach in subsequent albums.

 

[Rudy]

I agree with what Mike says: it's almost like someone grabbed the Mexican theme and ran with it, in response to the success of the "Lonely Bull" single. A cash-in attempt, in other words. At this late stage, it nearly seems like the album was a novelty. At least Lonely Bull had some variety on it! Not that Volume 2 isn't fun, but IMHO, musically, it was a dead end: where else could one take this mariachi theme without it sounding like a self-parody after one album?

With South Of The Border, let's not forget that Herb settled in at Gold Star, with veteran engineer Larry Levine, and the arrangements just began to gel at that point. The sound is HUGE! The arrangements are more sophisticated and expansive too: it's like Herb discovered the formula that would keep the TJB sound unique without sounding like much of Volume 2. And the sound quality took a big leap forward as well--much clearer, tonally better balanced, and again, that huge sound that partially came from Gold Star's legendary reverb chambers.

 

[Houckster]

Since I have the CD version of Volume 2, I can afford to wait for a change of heart and a traditional release of this album. I've always thought that Volume 2's recording on that CD was very good.

Because I've not heard the ITunes version of Volume 2, I will simply comment about the quality of the album's contents. I would love to see some comments comparing the quality of the ITunes release compared to the CD that came out in '88. I was very pleasantly surprised with the quality of the Warm and The Brass Are Comin' tracks.

Frankly, I'm surprised that the comments above have often reflected a rather tepid appreciation of this album. My view was that Herb Alpert tapped into a vein of gold in The Lonely Bull and he did an excellent job, in my view, of providing more of the same. Gold is gold. I have no complaints about the album at all.

To conclude that Mr. Alpert was just trying to "cash-in" on the success of the Lonely Bull simply falls flat in my view. Every artist attempts to do this but that didn't stop him from producing 12 quality tracks. I just cannot go along with the assumption that seems implicit from some of the posts that the album isn't good because Mr. Alpert didn't strike out for new ground. As I said, gold is gold. Maybe if Alpert had done 3 or 4 of these albums, I could see the point but not with Volume 2.

Frankly, I think that people are overanalyzing this album and probably doing so with a set of expectations that may not be realistic. Though I'm not generally one to go with "feelings", I've never felt that it was necessary to do anything more than just sit back and enjoy it take me "Marching Through Madrid".

I've heard that Mr. Alpert is not very enthusiastic about the album. If that's so, it may well be that he felt the need to move on so as not to be typecast in the mariachi vein but hadn't found the necessary direction yet. I can understand that but I contend that while Mr. Alpert was still on the Lonely Bull frequency, he did a damn good job with Volume 2 and I still enjoy it after these many years.

 

[audiofile]

This album is very much like Lonley Bull, and The Baja Marimba Band's first two albums. The album was made to showcase the lead voice, in this case being Alpert's trumpet. This album is fun to listen to, but is by no means essential Tijuana Brass material.

 

[ormandy]

I'm looking forward to getting...my hands...on this disc, my favorite TJB album.
I voted for Marching Through Madrid.

Downloading is overrated.

 

[Dave]

I very much think that it was uncanny how Herb Alpert's Tijuana Brass, Volume 2 (Yes, that's the actual title, including the "COMMA"...!) was released in such close proximity to his First Effort... (with "Lonely" George McCurn's one LP, sandwiched in-between)

I, in short, decided to go with "Green Leaves Of Summer", as it seems to be a bit of at least one step away from the "Mariachi Theme", which Herb wanted to continue trading his "Tijuana Brass" legacy on, while at the same time, being a serious and romantic figure in effectively expressing himself in the music world... He wanted to up his "Party Atmosphere" and did so, but at the same time, managed to also show another side of his career, which a few tracks on The Lonely Bull hinted having, though here came to full-flower...

Likewise, listen to tracks like "Marchin' Through Madrid", "El Presidente", "The Great Manolete", "Surfin' Senorita" and "Swinger From Seville", and you'll get the gist of the 'Ameri-achi' elements, which "The TjB" was really about... While, "A-me-ri-ca", "More" and "Green Leaves..." shows Alpert as a serious contender for the future of the Pop Instrumental stylist in the then-current landscape of the American Music World...

As for "Spanish Harlem", that is a very obvious track for Second-Place, counterbalancing the Interpretation of an Original song, then-currently sung by Ben E. King, while adding the "incidental Latin flavor", which it lacked... (Though Herb or SOME trumpeter surely added a very "authentic Bravado" to the Sonny Charles & The Checkmates version of it...)

Really wish there were some votes, or a vote for "Spanish Harlem"; it is underrated...



Dave

 

[DAN BOLTON]

There IS a vote for SPANISH HARLEM. It's my favorite song from this album...one of the first "street" songs Herb did. It's the definitive version of the song for me, I don't remember Ben E. King's version when it first came out[I was only 6...].

I never could understand why some people object to the original mastering of this album; It really reminds me of a block party...an outdoor festival, if you will. The roots of RISE are found here.

The music scene was in transition at this time, too...the Beatles were yet to really make a mark on the charts, and the instrumental era[that's what I call it, anyway...Ray Coniff, Percy Faith, Billy Vaughn, Bert Kaempfert, et.al.] was really on the wane. There wasn't really a big rock repetoire for Herb to draw from...pop music was Mitch Miller. The majority of pop radio hits were still the shoo-bop songs that didn't really lend themselves to the mariachi treatment.

The mass market just wasn't really ready for VOLUME 2 just yet...but, given the popular material of the day, there wasn't realy a whole lot that Herb could do. VOLUME 2 is a logical extension of the sound tht originated with TLB. It's a much better album in a lot of respects; Herb is much more focused as an arranger, the songs are more colorful and more culturally representative of different subcultures of lartin american music, the album wasn't rushed like TLB obviously was, and the songs are a little more contemporary. It's a much more commercial album, for lack of a better word.

The fact that it sold so well upon its' rerelease speaks volumes as to its' validity.

It shouldn't ever be seen as a failure or flawed album...it was just ahead of it's time.


Dan

 

[Numero Cinco]

I found my vinyl copy of this album some thirty years ago beneath a table at a flea–market in Georgia. In stereo, with almost no pops and cracks, it was a steal at 99 cents.

The first thing that strikes me about this album is how it seems, in song arrangements, to mimic The Lonely Bull. You have your atmospheric Mexican pieces ("The Great Manolette" for "The Lonely Bull"; "Marching Thru Madrid" for "Mexico"; "Cri Mi Amor" for "El Lobo"; "Mexican Corn" for "Acapulco 1922"; and so forth). The big differences between the two albums: no straight mutes; the "drunken crowd" noises on three tracks; and more venturesome arrangements with (for this era in the TJB sound) some unconventional instruments. "Swinger from Seville" sounds to me like a dress-rehearsal for "Love Potion #9." H. A. was finding his way, experimenting, still blending original (mostly Sol Lake) compositions with pop music of the day ("Spanish Harlem," "More.") Another thing: Bob Edmondson is all over this album, whereas on Lonely Bull he starred only in "Struttin' with Maria."

This is an album that grows on you. At least it did on me. At first it seemed to me too derivative of its predecessor, and unfocused. Over time it takes on an innocent, joyous quality, even without the fake margarita hijinks. It's formative Brass: fascinating and fun.

My favorite in the poll: "Mexican Corn." No, it's not as atmospheric as "Madrid" or as clever as "A-Mer-I-Ca," with the latter's killer time-translation of Bernstein's 6/8 to 2/2. But "Corn" is a peppy, ironic little thing: rhythmically pointing to the way to the next album's "Up Cherry Street" and instrumentally presaging where Herb would go with woodwinds throughout Whipped Cream and Other Delights. It always makes me happy to hear it. These days that's more than enough, thank you.

 

[Mike Blakesley]

I've been thinking about making a "Volume 2 medley" of the three party tracks, seguing them together so the applause and noise would be continuous. That might be kind of cool.

 

[Gus]

I agree with Herb that Vol.II's sound was too metallic with next to no bass. It could have been much better produced. What's impressive is his horn playing. The beautiful vibrato and mariachi sound has always been a "goose-bump" producer. I was only four or five at the time, but I remember "America" as being the closing number on the first TV special. That's why it's my favorite track.

My friends tease me because because they know I love Herbie and I exasperated my family because I dominated the record player with TJB stuff.

It's exciting to see these re-issues! I don't know why, but I never tire of listening to this music even after nearly forty five years. I started early too because I'm only forty five now.

Gus

 

[martin]

The first TJB LP I got was the "America" LP with half of the tracks from The Lonely Bull and the other half from Volume 2. I was ten at the time and all the other TJB albums were on my wish list before Volume 2, since I owned half of the songs already. Also, I was puzzled by the cover, because in Scandinavia the album was released with a different cover, a photo of Herb and the TJB, from around 1968. I thought it was strange that it looked so "new" as this was only the group's second LP. It was not until several years later I discovered the original cover.
I have not yet had access to the Itunes download, but I was able to pick up the CD in London in the late eighties. While I agree that the sound is not as good as on South Of The Border and all later TJB albums, Volume 2 still has fun and inventive arrangements e.g. America, More and Green Leaves Of Summer.

- greetings from the very snowy north -
Martin

 

[audiofile]

The tunes on this album are good, it's just how it sounds. Herb should of re-recorded all the tunes with the real TJB. Same arrangements and everything. Herb would of been too busy anyway. One can wish.....

 

[Dore Adler]

I've been moving and so I wanted to wait until now to get this album. I wanted to really sit down and listen intently because I have such vivid memories of it and the other Herb & The TJB LP's my parents had. In summer we went and stayed at a floating 'boat-house', literally a house floating on a lake, complete with running water and electricity!

Those sunny days were accompanied, almost non-stop, by my parents record changer dropping stacks of Herb's LP's up to SRO on the platter as we swam and enjoyed the beautiful echo in our cove.

Volume Two was the one that got the most repeat plays and it just got lodged in my mind as almost perfect, so much so that I have at times chaffed at criticisms it often receives. But the fact is it isn't perfect, my favorite song Marching Through Madrid is apparently so hideous a recording that even todays technology cannot find an ounce of bass anywhere in its' EQ spectrum! Having some experience in this realm, I lamented not being able to make it sound better, but if Herb with all his resources cannot breathe the breath of life into it, I guess I shouldn't feel so bad. It's still a great song, and performance.

However the rest of the album is, to my ears, quite listenable and sounds great on headphones! It has to be the moodiest party record of all time! I really love the first two albums with all the session guys, like Hal Blaine, really cookin' on these tracks!

A great record!

I'm glad to finally have this album in

 

[davjazzer]

I'M SORRY HERB DIDN"T PUT THIS OUT ON SHOUT FACTORY,BUT GLAD TO SEE IT ON DOWNLOAD.I THINK THIS WAS A FINE FOLLOW-UP TO LONELY BULL.NOT ALL THE TUNES WORK and THE"PARTY"NOISES GET A BIT SILLY,BUT THERE IS PLENTY OF GOOD STUFF FOT TJB FANS.THE OPENER"GREAT MANOLETE"IS A CLASSIC MARIACHI TUNE AND HERB PLAYS IT GREAT.OTHER HIGHLIGHTS ARE GREEN LEAVES OF SUMMER,WINDS OF BARCELONA(I liked this version more than El Presidente),SPANISH HARLEM and CREA MI AMOR.I THINK LONELY BULL and VOL.2 both HAVE THAT "EARLY "TJB sound,BEFORE HERB REALLY FOUND HIS FORMULA-BUT THEY BOTH HOLD UP REAL WELL 40-PLUS YEARS LATER.-----BRASSY YOURS,DAVE.

 

[ormandy]

I'M SORRY HERB DIDN"T PUT THIS OUT ON SHOUT FACTORY,
BUT GLAD TO SEE IT ON DOWNLOAD

I'm not glad that he went this route, and I'll be really pissed if it never comes out
on Shout Factory. But I'll get over it. Only because I own a A&M copy already.

 

[^^Sabina^^]

Although this album could sound "metallic", I like it too much! My favorite tune is Great Manolete because it reminds me of the bullfights I attended in my childhood.

 

[Captaindave]

Hey, I'd like to bump this topic back up again - if only for a minute - because I have been listening to my downloaded iTunes Volume 2 CD.

I really like it...even better than in the old days when I was listening to these songs on vinyl through an old Magnavox Home Entertainment Center circa 1967-1968 (complete with black and white TV, AM/FM tuner, and turntable, and who knows what for speakers hiding behind the tan "grille cloth coverings" - all in a nice piece of living room furniture ). I'm sure the turntable part of this monstrosity would have frightened the audiophiles on this forum.

I must describe this album from hindsight as "quaint." It's actually fun to listen to this album, and at the same time, recognize where all this music was going to go by the end of the 1960s.

I listen mostly on either an iPod or through headphones on a portable CD player, and I think it has a warmer sound than I remember from the past.

So, for me its

FWIW...and Ole.

 

[happycamper]

Yes, this album is worth more attention. I like the Great Manolete, Winds of Barcelona, Green Leaves of Summer, Marching through Madrid, More, America, and Mexican Corn.

You know, I agree with Numero Cinco. Mexican Corn is a great piece. It really has a catchy tune. But think what Herb could do with this piece if he were to reconvene some people on sax, trumpet, trombone, piano, a few others, and jazz this up with a fresh recording, allowing them to do some more improvisation. It has great potential. I can imagine the music in my head already...