How much longer will the Carpenters master tapes last?

[andywithaz]

I was reading an interview that was done a couple years back and Richard stated that oxides has started to fall off some of the tapes. The one that was the worst was Top of the World. Of course it wasn't a large portion of the tape so Richard was able to repair it.

If something on a larger scale happens to the tapes what is Richard going to do

How many original master recording tapes are there

 

[Dave]

I was reading an interview that was done a couple years back and Richard stated that oxides has started to fall off some of the tapes. The one that was the worst was Top of the World. Of course it wasn't a large portion of the tape so Richard was able to repair it.

If something on a larger scale happens to the tapes what is Richard going to do?

How many original master recording tapes are there?

Well, in the case of ANY artists Master Tapes, it depends how they're stored and how long their stored. If no one will play them, then they should be fast-forwarded and rewound a few times--that helps keep the oxide intact and prolongs the tape quality and prevents some weakening. I just say, there should be an effort to digitally store EVERYTHING until a (another?) Reissue Campaign comes along. That way, the quality of "stuff left sitting in a vault" and how long its been there and will last, doesn't have to be a big concern.

Dave

 

[W.B.]

Question #1: What brand were the tapes used to record these classics? If they were Ampex (which is notorious for their tape stock that now has to be "baked"), then Richard really has his work cut out for him.

Question #2: Are the tapes polyester or acetate? I've heard that acetate stock has also had some oxidation problems.

 

[Rudy]

Ampex Grandmaster 456 was really bad...still is, if you find a reel of it. I can't play a reel for more than 10 minutes before it totally clogs the head.

 

[Harry]

I can't believe, given Richard's penchant for revisiting and re-mixing, that he hasn't got dozens of back-ups of the old masters stored away somewhere.

Then there's the fact that they've been re-released so many times over the years, that everyone who ever wanted a copy of all of the albums and compilations has had the ability to get them.

Not so, though, in the case of Mr. Alpert and all of his old recordings. Those, and the older A&M's that never saw CD release are the ones I lose sleep over.

Harry
NP: radio at work

 

[Rudy]

Harry: Steve Hoffman was commissioned a year or two ago just to make unaltered archival copies of all the TJB masters. So at least there are backups available for those. I don't know if they're analog or digital, though.

I'd already heard that the Carpenters tapes were backed up, but no idea in what format (analog or digital).

My thougths about digital though: unless it's going to be Direct Stream Digital, don't even bother doing it. I've heard of one or two labels that actually got rid of their masters once they encoded it for CD mastering (44.1kHz, 16 bit). That was a short-sighted move. All that additional detail is lost forever. Digital technology changes so fast it's like hitting a moving target--whatever PCM rate you encode it at today will be outdated five years from now. Direct Stream Digital is a 1 bit, 2.88MHz sampling rate system. Even DSD is coming out in a second version at twice the sampling rate. Major studios are beginning to At its current rate though, it can be downsampled easily to any other existing rate for DVD-Audio or even CD.

 

[Harry]

Harry: Steve Hoffman was commissioned a year or two ago just to make unaltered archival copies of all the TJB masters. So at least there are backups available for those. I don't know if they're analog or digital, though.

Yeah, I remember reading that. Still, how many other A&M masters might be rotting away in the vaults? Like all those single and mono mixes. If I recall, Steve Hoffman DIDN'T have the all of the mono mixes, hence his call for the "Tijuana Taxi" mono mix.

Harry
...tired, online...

 

[andywithaz]

I think that maybe Universal should go ahead and release the Carpenters music on a higher format. I would just love to hear Karen's voice on with DSD technology Maybe Richard has already made DSD backups of the old masters.



Andrew
...longing for Carpenter's music to be released on SACD...

 

[Rudy]

Yeah, I remember reading that. Still, how many other A&M masters might be rotting away in the vaults? Like all those single and mono mixes. If I recall, Steve Hoffman DIDN'T have the all of the mono mixes, hence his call for the "Tijuana Taxi" mono mix.

Yeah, that was a bummer. I don't actually know if Herb Alpert has the single mixes in his possession, since Steve mentioned that A&M stored all of the masters for their 45RPM singles on compilation reels (where the TJB's singles would be mixed in with other artists). If the mono LP masters still exist...who knows? We know that some stereo masters exist, since the CDs were mastered from those. (Whether or not they were original two-track masters is still a mystery.) I'm thinking that Steve backed up the 3-track masters, which means that Alpert and Larry Levine could, in effect, make new mono and stereo mixes from these. We're lucky that Herb rescued his own masters from Universal's grasp. But what about the dozens of other artists? They're just collecting dust right now.

 

[Rudy]

I think that maybe Universal should go ahead and release the Carpenters music on a higher format. I would just love to hear Karen's voice on with DSD technology Maybe Richard has already made DSD backups of the old masters.

If anything, the differences between CD and SACD are subtle. One thing I notice: I can listen to SACDs at a higher volume for a longer period of time without ear fatigue. CDs seem to have a harder "edge" to them, not as pleasant to listen to over a longer period of time (less noticeable at lower volumes). I have a small but wide range of SACD discs right now, and I must say it does more "right" to the sound than CD ever could. It does a really good job of presenting what's on the original master tape. The recent Rolling Stones and Police remasters are very nice...very "analog" like. Peter Gabriel's remasters are very detailed, beating the original CDs and the old vinyl copies. Would Carpenters' original albums gain much from a SACD release over the existing "Remastered Classics" CDs? Not TOO much, but it would be the closest thing you could get to having that two-track master in your home. Tape hiss and all.

I don't know if multitracks can yet be stored in DSD format though. (I'm thinking something like the 24- and 32-track, or higher, multitrack units out there.) The hardware is still relatively new, very expensive, and few companies make it. (Sony holds the patents on it.) Nonetheless, major studios are starting to look into DSD to replace PCM digital.

 

[W.B.]

I've heard of one or two labels that actually got rid of their masters once they encoded it for CD mastering (44.1kHz, 16 bit). That was a short-sighted move. All that additional detail is lost forever.

Pray tell, could one of those labels have been MCA (now Universal)?

 

[Rudy]

I've heard of one or two labels that actually got rid of their masters once they encoded it for CD mastering (44.1kHz, 16 bit). That was a short-sighted move. All that additional detail is lost forever.

Pray tell, could one of those labels have been MCA (now Universal)?

I don't think it was, from what I can recall. (But it wouldn't surprise me either!) I can try to find out, since my memory isn't what it used to be.

It's sad, but also amusing, that back in the 80's, some of these record companies thought digital was so "perfect". I don't think they counted on digital technology advancing so fast, nor were their ears "trained" to the faults in digital recording. I did a comparison in bit rates in a sound editor a couple of months ago, and just posted them here in another thread:

http://www.amcorner.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=20512