I've decided to give Richard a break.

[arthowson]

So much time spent bagging on Richard.

I think there is possibly no other champion for a musical legacy than that of Richard Carpenter. Look what he's managed to do! He has single handedly kept the music alive after all of these years. What other single artist has higher quality offerings? Elvis, no. Beatles, no.

As much as we love Karen and want to protect her and rewrite history, take things back, or marry her off to someone else… etc. At least we still have Richard.

How about this? Would Karen have done a better job at preserving the memory? Don't know. Yes, we'd get to see her in concert, but we'd miss Richard. It would not be possible for Karen to have paid more homage to him than he has paid to her.

I forgive him for not wanting to talk about the dark years. Tina wanted to stop talking about Ike because she doesn't want Ike to be her legacy.

Why should Karen's legacy be the anorexia. It's best that Richard put the focus back where it belongs… to their unique sound. The "Carpenter's sound." Not "Karen's sound."

Just lost my wonderful Mother-in-law, born in 1946. I'm suddenly feeling sad at the thought of losing Richard. I'm feeling regretful that any of us have been anything but grateful to him.

Just thoughts. My 5 year old twins call the Carpenters music their "night night" music because I sing to them at night. "sing the birdie song… they say. " …."why do birds suddenly appear…"

 

[GaryAlan]

Nicely said, Arthawson!
As Richard Carpenters said: " She (Karen) was my best friend, and I was hers."
And as he, also, said: " I guess people will remember Karen more than anything, because of her voice. So recognizable."
"But, I want us remembered in 50 years as the quality, contemporary, music duo."
Karen (on Richard) : "He's so talented, it just makes me weep that everybody just walks right by him."
(see, Yesterday Once More, Schmidt, p.110&120, 1st ed'n. reprint of interview in Melody Maker ,1975)

Those familiar with Carpenters music, I believe, are grateful to Richard Carpenter.
I ascertain that he is a musical genius; And, I adore his arrangement style and all that he has accomplished in preserving the legacy.

If, on occasion, I have let a negative comment sneak in (regarding Richard), it is not intended maliciously.

"The utility of biography rests on the fact that we can enter, by sympathy, into situations in which others have found themselves.
Even the great are not removed from the factors common to all. Parallel circumstances to which we can conform our minds shape
every life." (From Westfall , Never At Rest:Isaac Newton, 1980)

 

[newvillefan]

Here's a thought: if circumstances were different and Richard had passed away in 1983 rather than Karen, would we have had all the posthumous material that has been released since then? Karen wasn't a producer, arranger, composer or conductor like her brother, so she would not have been in a position to complete and release anything without outside help. Would she have wanted outtakes such as 'The Rainbow Connection' or 'Ordinary Fool' even released, given that they all feature her lead vocal work and she did not like some of them? What direction would Karen have gone? Would she have continued in music, or finally managed to branch out into musicals, sing duets and do all the things she never got the chance to do with Richard at the musical helm?

 

[Dave]

Hmmmmmm, Richard to have gone first? That's a lot of Qualudes...!

But now that, that grave thought is out of the way, my break I have voluntarily given to Richard is to simply let the man retire & enjoy peace w/ his children (& maybe future grandchildren) and rest on the laurels of his career while enjoying the memories he'd had in building it w/ Sister Karen...

(Or would it be 'Sis'ta' had there been any forays into the Rap World, perhaps????)


-- Dave

 

[newvillefan]

my break I have voluntarily given to Richard is to simply let the man retire & enjoy peace w/ his children (& maybe future grandchildren) and rest on the laurels of his career while enjoying the memories he'd had in building it w/ Sister Karen...

As has been said a few times lately, especially since his interview with Chris May, I think Richard is done now - he can sit back and relax in the knowledge that he's tidied up the back catalogue, remixed tracks, fixed any errors ('tumtimes' in Crystal Lullaby for example) and released what he considers to be releasable. There is no more Karen. His job is done. He's 67 years old now. The years he has left he probably wants to enjoy with his family. In his own words "I really enjoy being a dad". If I got to meet him I'd probably just say thanks for everything and wish him all the best.

 

[Rumbahbah]

Personally I'm happy for Richard to do whatever he wants with his life. I don't feel he owes us anything else as fans. Although it would be great to hear more unreleased material, if he doesn't want to put anything else out now, that's his call. We have a substantial body of work to listen to already. Although personally I hope that his remixing days on the already released tracks are now over - in nearly all cases, the originals, minor imperfections and all, were just fine as they were and should really have been left alone.

The issue as I see it has been that Richard hasn't really carved out a separate career outside of custodian of the Carpenters' legacy since Karen's passing, so we all still think of him in that role and as the only one who can bring us anything new, but that doesn't mean he has to keep producing new stuff for us if he's not minded to. It does seem a shame that he perhaps didn't go into production for other artists or scoring films or something similar. It might have given him a greater sense of personal fulfilment in his own abilities rather than always being inextricably linked in with being part of the Carpenters.

There are plenty of opinions that Richard holds and decisions that he made in their career that I disagree quite strongly with, but that doesn't make me any less respectful towards his talent and what he achieved with Karen.

 

[newvillefan]

It does seem a shame that he perhaps didn't go into production for other artists or scoring films or something similar. It might have given him a greater sense of personal fulfilment in his own abilities rather than always being inextricably linked in with being part of the Carpenters.

I think he had more than enough talent to go into production and score films as you say, even during Karen's lifetime. She certainly seemed to be up for it on his behalf. After her passing, it baffled me why he chose to work with virtual nobodies like Scott Grimes and Akiko Kobayashi, when he could have done some amazing, successful and probably also gratifying things with internationally acclaimed artists like Donna Summer. I don't mean the odd track with a guest lead vocal, I mean an entire project with other artists (thinking Barry Gibb and Barbra Streisand here). I would have loved to see him interviewed in the 80s and 90s about his latest production or the latest film he's scored and I'm sure there are many who would have given their right arm to collaborate with him, but he seemed content with staying inextricably linked to the Carpenters, remixing and tinkering with the soundtrack to a life and career that once was.

For me, the problem in staying bonded to the Carpenters for life is that he lost his own identity. In many people's eyes, he's still "the brother of that singer who died from anorexia". Every interview, every documentary, it's always about Karen, her tragedy, her problems, her voice...and he's reminded over and over again. Looking at it from the outside as an observer, it seems to me that this never allowed him to psychologically 'let go' of the past and move on. I don't mean that in a disrespectful way as in he should forget about his sister - I mean staying emotionally tied to something that was ultimately traumatic like that isn't always good for a person, you know? From his comments in many interviews, I often got the impression he wanted to torture himself listening to her voice for hours on end, creating an alternate reality, one in which she were still there in the booth singing to him. Grief is a very difficult thing to deal with I guess, and we all deal with it in our own separate ways.

 

[Jeff]

Interesting what "staying bonded to CarpenterS for life" did to Karen's identity. I still have a heck of a time grieving deeply for Richard and his life experience regarding CarpenterS. Realistically it wasn't the piano player for the group that got the fuzzy end of the lollipop. I would spend my last breath honoring my sisters memory and providing those who loved her with every speck of memorabilia. All the more to cherish, treasure and hold dear. The one population faithfully embracing Karen should have the opportunity to have any and all testaments. No excuses. Sorry RC fans and foes but I find him rather whiny.

Jeff

 

[arthowson]

None of us can really be hurt more than Richard. He wants her legacy to be pristine and if the Solo Project is his unwanted step-child… so be it. None of those songs would have been monster hits. Don't get me wrong, I love the solo album.. i love that Karen got to work with other people, but Richard let Karen shine far brighter than Phil Ramone did. Karen's best Producer? Probably Peter Knight.

 

[moog]

I think he had more than enough talent to go into production and score films as you say, even during Karen's lifetime. She certainly seemed to be up for it on his behalf. After her passing, it baffled me why he chose to work with virtual nobodies like Scott Grimes and Akiko Kobayashi, when he could have done some amazing, successful and probably also gratifying things with internationally acclaimed artists like Donna Summer. I don't mean the odd track with a guest lead vocal, I mean an entire project with other artists (thinking Barry Gibb and Barbra Streisand here).

Not to be an armchair psychologist here, as I respect his talent immensely and I'm a huge fan, but if you never try, you can never fail. He was extremely successful at what he did as producer of the Carpenters, and never really branched out from that as much as he could have. Carpenters remixes are a guaranteed hit.

If he works with successful people and it flops, it's the producer's "fault," not the famous vocalist's.

If he works with nobodies and it flops, it's because they were "nobodies." If it they're successful, it was because of his talent as a producer. Lower "risk," perhaps.

 

[Toolman]

None of us can really be hurt more than Richard. He wants her legacy to be pristine and if the Solo Project is his unwanted step-child… so be it. None of those songs would have been monster hits. Don't get me wrong, I love the solo album.. i love that Karen got to work with other people, but Richard let Karen shine far brighter than Phil Ramone did. Karen's best Producer? Probably Peter Knight.

T Bone Burnett, Jason Miles...my "fantasy producers" for her. Richard, circa 1970-72, also excellent. Although I was a big fan of Knight's kitchen sink approach during Carpenters' active later years, his contributions have not worn well with me. I hear "Last One Singin' the Blues" and want to hear more in that vein. Ironic that most critics applaud the intimacy of her voice, and yet so many of her musical settings were anything but.

 

[Dave]

Fantasy Outside Producers for Karen:

An Auteuristic sort of guy: Richard--PERRY!!!!

Sympathetic: Arif Mardin

Ambitious: Jimmy Webb

Undermining: Vini Poncia

Folkish: David Nichtern

Down-Home-ish (Think 'Country'): David Anderle

Hype (OK, I mean, "Big Sound"): Bones Howe

(Results may vary, depending on one's musical perspective, as to what's "good"...)



-- Dave

 

[Dave]

In the totally far-fetched world of producers:

Others in New York:

Meco Monardo/Tony Bongiovi

Bert DeCoateaux

Bob Clearmountain

Charles Calello

If you're ever in Muscle Shoals:

Barry Beckett

Rick Hall

Karen "Canuck" / Richard of the Great White North:

Mike Flicker


-- Dave

 

[Dave]

Forgot about Nashville:

Bob Montgomery

Jerry Kennedy

Chet Atkins

Larry Butler

Jerry Crutchfield

If they'd stayed w/ RCA (that is, if RCA kept 'em--gave Richard & Karen a Break!):

Rick Jarrard

Otherwise, if banished to Amos Records (of which aside from a few good records made there, this is where you'd go if you stunk--well, really the production bordered on "amateur-ish)...):

Jimmy Bowen


-- Dave

 

[JeffM]

Producers, huh?

Versatile: Peter Asher

Countryish but still pop enough: Jim Ed Norman

Straight-ahead commercial: Tom Catalano

Over-the-top commercial: Snuff Garrett

 

[Dave]

If London (or becoming Beatlesque) is their cup of tea: George Martin


-- Dave

 

[aaflyer98]

I think they should have gone all Giorgio Moroder in 1979. Do a complete and bonafide disco album with Carpenters harmonies. It kicked a** for the Bee Gees.

 

[Dave]

Another one in Nashville: Norbert Putnam

Also: Brooks Arthur...

And why not Robert Apperre? Joey Levine?

Then in A&M's stable of its own producers and right at the beginning of Karen & Richard's tenure at A&M Records, who produced Paul Williams first two LP's there, is--:

(Drum roll)

Michael Jackson...


(Yeh, I'll let you figure that one out...)


-- Dave

 

[arthowson]

it would be really cool to do what they did to the Beatles catalog with that cirque du sulai? show.

 

[JeffM]

I think they should have gone all Giorgio Moroder in 1979. Do a complete and bonafide disco album with Carpenters harmonies. It kicked a** for the Bee Gees.

Now that would have been an interesting experiment. Maybe not Moroder himself, too electronic; but one of the orchestral-type arrangers in that field.

 

[will1966]

For the longest time I hated all the remixing and re-recording Richard did with all the old songs. Now, however, I've had a change of heart. I see that he really just wanted the best possible showcase for Karen's voice and wanted everything as perfect as possible.

 

[A&M Retro]

How about Thom Bell, who produced the classics for The Stylistics, Spinners and Elton John? Now, to my ears, that would be the perfect fit!

 

[Mark-T]

I would LOVE that, A&M Retro. Can't you hear "All You Get From Love" in that style?

 

[BarryT60]

fantasy Karen producer: Diana Krall.
fantasy Richard artists to produce: Trisha Yearwood; k.d. lang; Faith Hill & yes... Barbra.

Live performance wish:
Las Vegas 1970's review show - with Olivia, Dionne, Helen Reddy, with Richard Carpenter - as conductor, and each vocalist gets to do a Carpenters single along with many of their own hits.

Promotional opportunity to re-release Christmas Portrait or another Anthology:
Richard as a guest conductor on some popular program like Dancing With the Stars, or American Idol, where a new audience could be introduced to Richard's unique gifts.

I also wish that a lesser known magical nugget would make it into a popular movie today. Say... Hide Away - or Two Sides - or One More Time... while credits are rolling... How wonderful to imagine the opportunity for a totally new demographic to hear those songs.. that voice..

 

[GaryAlan]

A multifaceted thread, indeed!
I am "on the fence", again, in regards to my emotions on this issue.
(And, keep in mind, I really adore Richard and all of the production he has put into Carpenters' albums...
I am playing devil's advocate somewhat, here).
So many good points have been raised. Tough to interject anything of substance.
But, I can (and, will!) highlight a number of interesting facets:
Richard convinced Karen to step out from 'behind' the drums. (Karen loved her drumming)
Richard was the song selector of Carpenters' recordings, to the detriment of withholding said from Karen until
she was in the recording studio. Apparently, he decided which songs were to be singles and which songs appeared on albums.
Richard fired Neil Sedaka. This was quite detrimental to the Carpenters' career. (Given the newspaper accounts I have read).
Richard fired Sherwin Bash. (This, too, seems to be a wrong-headed move.)
Jerry Weintraub got them a better A&M Royalty deal, but, placing Karen Carpenter on television seems the last thing
to do to someone in the throes of Anorexia.( And, let's face it, Space Encounters, how did that help their career?)
Given that December 1978 Richard shortens material for the Long Beach Concert.(And, terminates early their Las Vegas engagement).
Then, Karen flies to Britain, alone, to promote their music. (What was going through her mind on that long airplane trip?).
Richard decides to take 1979 off. (Big mistake, 1979 should have seen a 'new' Carpenters' album.)
(After all, he says he was 'cured' in six-weeks).
Richard is ready to 'go' on a 'new' album in 1980....
Oh, wait, Karen has a 'new' solo venture waiting to be released.
What to do? Richard hates disco. Oh, well then, solo album has some disco, solo album will have to wait.
(Aha, waiting will make the disco sound even more dated, so it'll be easier to shelve).
(Although, "I Could've Danced All Night/Hustle" robotic medley makes it onto the 1978 Space Encounters program.)

I have no doubt that these same judgement calls have entered Richard's mindset, many a time since 1983.
Who was asleep at the wheels of their career?
I have no doubt that he loved Karen, deeply.
Be that as it may, and as the Discoveries 1991 Paul Grein re-assessment of their career details,
Richard, unfortunately for posterity (and, Karen), lost the Midas touch along the way.
As the Downey Newspaper article from February 1983 sadly reports:
"Many of the Downey High Students were unaware of who she was, or of Carpenters' music". (Carpenters Reader).
Or, singing for elementary students in December 1982: Leffler--"Except for my children, the other kids did not know who she was" (ibid.)
To go from (one of ) the most popular musical artists in the World , to being unheard of (by Students) in your own back-yard,
this is saddening.

In the end, we do have the beautiful, immaculate, legendary recordings.(Thank You, Richard).
And, in one way, Karen lives on.
But, the "why's" and "what-ifs", they do keep company in the back of my mind.

(My own personal irritation stems from adding that choir to "Ave Maria"...it's already quite perfect as released in 1978!)