Mystery Tunes

[leadmister]

I was doing some digging into the BMI and ASCAP repertories recently and came across some interesting entries. It turns out that there are a few things that are listed in both performance and songwriting credits that I have never heard of. I know that there is a list of unreleased stuff called "Buried Treasures" or something like that, but I don't recall any of these being on the list.

What do you guys think? Do you know about any of these Carpenter/Bettis compositions or Carpenters performances?

Carpenters Performances

Eleanor Rigby
Here Comes That Rainy Day Feeling Again
I’m In The Mood For Love
Muskrat Love
Secret Love
Talk It Over In The Morning

Carpenter/Bettis Compositions

All I Want Is You
Christmas Turned Blue
Close Your Eyes
Far Away
Herders
Oh, My Leo
Paginas Amarillas
This Time Of The Year

 

[ars nova]

I was doing some digging into the BMI and ASCAP repertories recently and came across some interesting entries. It turns out that there are a few things that are listed in both performance and songwriting credits that I have never heard of. I know that there is a list of unreleased stuff called "Buried Treasures" or something like that, but I don't recall any of these being on the list.

What do you guys think? Do you know about any of these Carpenter/Bettis compositions or Carpenters performances?

Carpenters Performances

Eleanor Rigby
Here Comes That Rainy Day Feeling Again
I’m In The Mood For Love
Muskrat Love
Secret Love
Talk It Over In The Morning

Carpenter/Bettis Compositions

All I Want Is You
Christmas Turned Blue
Close Your Eyes
Far Away
Herders
Oh, My Leo
Paginas Amarillas
This Time Of The Year

talk it over in the morning, is a paul williams-roger nichols song, it is possible they performed it as part of a medley. some of the carpenter-bettis titles are Christmas songs.

 

[leadmister]

talk it over in the morning, is a paul williams-roger nichols song, it is possible they performed it as part of a medley. some of the carpenter-bettis titles are Christmas songs.

Makes sense. Besides the Obvious Christmas Turned Blue, I figured Herders and This Time Of The Year were shelved Christmas tunes as well.

Regarding the Williams/Nichols tune, I did notice that a few entries in the database were parts of medleys, a lot of which were with Ella Fitzgerald. It would make sense that a few of these would be parts of medleys as well.

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

Christmas Turned Blue and December Morn were songs written by Richard and I believe were sung by Japanese artist Seiko Matsuda. They are both great songs, Christmas Turned Blue reminds me of the sound from the Time album period the way it starts off.

Here is December Morn

 

[leadmister]

Christmas Turned Blue and December Morn were songs written by Richard and I believe were sung by Japanese artist Seiko Matsuda. They are both great songs, Christmas Turned Blue reminds me of the sound from the Time album period the way it starts off.

Here is December Morn

Very nice indeed.

 

[tomswift2002]

Here’s “Together At Christmas Again”. It’s a Pamela Phillips Oland/Richard Carpenter composition.




Also here’s Richard’s version of “Home For The Holidays”.



“Talk It Over In The Morning” I think was an Anne Murray 45.

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

There is a short audio clip of "Christmas Turned Blue here, scroll down click on the title and it opens the jplayer, both tracks are on this album but it's long out of print.

https://www.amazon.co.jp/LOVE～Seiko-Matsuda-20th-Anniversary-Selection/dp/B00005HPXG

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

I assume this was inside her CD above, a photo of the 2 of them with Richard's liner notes on the 2 tracks.

 

[leadmister]

I'm the most curious about Muskrat Love. I know it's a ridiculous song but I'd like to hear Karen's reading of it. Eleanor Rigby as well.

 

[newvillefan]

Richard is a superb background vocalist but these clips show why he was never made for leads. Aside from the limitations in his range, his pronunciation and diction are too precise and too pronounced for him ever to have been a successful lead singer. They lack the emotion required for leads.

 

[leadmister]

Richard is a superb background vocalist but these clips show why he was never made for leads. Aside from the limitations in his range, his pronunciation and diction are too perfect and too pronounced for him ever to have been a successful lead singer.

This is the correct analysis. He's too perfect with his delivery. Not genuine enough. Like night and day compared with his sister.

 

[tomswift2002]

Richard is a superb background vocalist but these clips show why he was never made for leads. Aside from the limitations in his range, his pronunciation and diction are too precise and too pronounced for him ever to have been a successful lead singer. They lack the emotion required for leads.

Sorry, I would have to disagree with you there. Sure his pronunciation and dictation maybe sharper than Karen’s, but, especially on “Home For The Holidays” he reminds me of Perry Como or Frank Sinatra.

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

There are a lot of years in between those 2 clips as well. The Home for the Holidays was not long after Karen passed away, Richard's voice was just how we remembered from the albums. The Japanese broadcast Richard was no longer singing like he once did. However I agree with Tom that although he may sound a bit harsher on the Together at Christmas Again when he goes high I can still hear him from the 70's & 80's with Karen. I love both of those recordings and wish we had official studio releases from him.

Olivia's vocals have deepened with age and on some recent recordings she's down right raspy but with everything she's been through I feel lucky to have any recordings from her. Just as I feel the same with Richard. I would buy these 2 tracks above from him if he ever released them.

 

[tomswift2002]

There are a lot of years in between those 2 clips as well. The Home for the Holidays was not long after Karen passed away, Richard's voice was just how we remembered from the albums. The Japanese broadcast Richard was no longer singing like he once did. However I agree with Tom that although he may sound a bit harsher on the Together at Christmas Again when he goes high I can still hear him from the 70's & 80's with Karen. I love both of those recordings and wish we had official studio releases from him.

As I recall from the Coleman book, apparently Richard picked up a smoking habit at some point, so his vocal chords probably dried out from the tobacco use as well in the 20-30 year span (kind of like Walt Disney’s voice for Mickey when you compare it to the cartoons from the 20’s and 30’s versus the “Mickey Mouse Club” openings of the 1950’s). Plus people’s voices just dry out naturally over the years as well.

 

[TheOneBeatleManiac]

I might be the weird one here, but I have never quite understood why Richard is so derided as a lead singer. Perhaps because everyone compares him to Karen; unavoidable it seems, but the thing is, they are different in their singing abilities and perspectives. Karen's leads were more free-form, thus probably having more options to be expressive, Richard's leads are more ''as-is written'', but this doesn't mean that he cannot be expressive too. Maybe many people don't like that aspect of his singing, but I do admire the formal training he has, and it cannot be denied that he has good range, volume, and an unmistakable sound on his voice. Plus, he can play marvelously at the same time! And Karen did that too! (in the early years). That contrast in their approach of vocals, is a testament of the great variety of making music they had, but sadly that got lost as the years went by.

 

[leadmister]

I might be the weird one here, but I have never quite understood why Richard is so derided as a lead singer. Perhaps because everyone compares him to Karen; unavoidable it seems, but the thing is, they are different in their singing abilities and perspectives. Karen's leads were more free-form, thus probably having more options to be expressive, Richard's leads are more ''as-is written'', but this doesn't mean that he cannot be expressive too. Maybe many people don't like that aspect of his singing, but I do admire the formal training he has, and it cannot be denied that he has good range, volume, and an unmistakable sound on his voice. Plus, he can play marvelously at the same time! And Karen did that too! (in the early years). That contrast in their approach of vocals, is a testament of the great variety of making music they had, but sadly that got lost as the years went by.

That's the difference in a nutshell. Karen's talent was natural but Richard's was acquired. It took a lot more work for him to pull off passable lead vocals. I've always considered Richard's voice to be pleasant, but the "wow" factor just isn't there like it is with Karen or a number of other great singers.

 

[TheOneBeatleManiac]

That's the difference in a nutshell. Karen's talent was natural but Richard's was acquired. It took a lot more work for him to pull off passable lead vocals. I've always considered Richard's voice to be pleasant, but the "wow" factor just isn't there like it is with Karen or a number of other great singers.

For me he has its unique ''wow'' factor, different from Karen. As you said, Karen had a natural talent and Richard trained it. Two different approaches, two types of lead singers, reunited in a brother-sister duo. That's what I feel made the original Carpenters sound.

 

[leadmister]

For me he has its unique ''wow'' factor, different from Karen. As you said, Karen had a natural talent and Richard trained it. Two different approaches, two types of lead singers, reunited in a brother-sister duo. That's what I feel made the original Carpenters sound.

Mmm I like that. There is no doubt that they were made for each other in many ways, vocals included. In a recent interview, Richard said it perfectly. "I'm not a lead singer, I'm a background singer. I'm good at blending in with other people." Boy, did he have his moments singing lead though. I'm not a great big fan of his lead singing, but there have been a few moments where he sounded phenomenal.

 

[newvillefan]

I'm the most curious about Muskrat Love. I know it's a ridiculous song but I'd like to hear Karen's reading of it.

I looked this song up and found this anecdote by Toni Tennille on Wikipedia. No mention of Carpenters but I thought its genesis as a hit for them (and for A&M) was an interesting read:

According to Toni Tennille, who formed Captain & Tennille with her husband Daryl Drag on, the duo had added the song to their nightclub set list a few years earlier after hearing the America single on their car radio: "I said to Daryl: 'Did you hear that? I swear they're singing about muskrats.' I had to know what the lyrics were so the next day we went out and found the sheet music. I said to Daryl: 'This song is hysterical; why don’t we add it to our club-act?' And [the audience] went nuts for it”. Being short one track for Song of Joy, Captain & Tennille made an impromptu decision to record "Muskrat Love", including the synthesiser-generated sound effects that Dragon had created for the song's performance in their nightclub act, these sound effects meant to evoke the imagined sound of muskrats mating: the eventual 7-inch single version of Captain & Tennille's "Muskrat Love" would feature an "endless loop" of these sound effects created by having the song's end run into the locked groove of the 45.

Despite Captain & Tennille's stated disinterest in highlighting "Muskrat Love" as an item in their repertoire, it was the song they chose to sing at a July 1976 White House dinner honoring Queen Elizabeth II: the press subsequently ran a statement from a dinner guest who opined it was "in very poor taste" to sing of mating muskrats before the Queen. Toni Tennille responded to this charge saying: "only a person with a dirty mind would see something wrong. It's a gentle Disneyesque kind of song."