Now-What did Karen hear?

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

Richard wrote on From the Top box set that "Now" became Karen's last recording session. This flawless reading is a work lead sung during the rhythm tracking session to familiarize the musicians with the song. Richard says that orchestration was added in 1983 along with the singers and sax solo.

Does anyone know what "during the rhythm tracking session" means?

I was wondering when Richard says musicians is he speaking of himself and Karen and whoever else was in the control room at the time it was sung by Karen or was he talking in general, that she sang the work lead to put her voice to the song and later put the rest of the song together later (of which Karen was not around later due to what ultimately happen to her)

I also wonder what did Karen hear when she sang this work lead that we hear on "Now" From the TV Movie, The Karen Carpenter Story, we see Karen in the studio by herself in closed room with headphones on singing the "work lead" I have to believe this was probably how it occured, right, since Richard was involved in the music portion of this tv movie. But more importantly what did Karen hear while she sang this track, when I hear this song I often wonder what Karen heard since when Richard completed the track for VOTH album, what Karen heard was not the finished product since so much was added after she passed away, for instance the OK Choral etc...

 

[Mike Blakesley]

I think the "rhythm tracking" group is just your basic, drums/bass/guitar/keyboard band. Orchestration and etc. to be added later, along with rerecording of the rhythm section as necessary.

 

[Harry]

Sounds right to me. Listen to some of the unfinished tracks like "The Last One Singin' The Blues" on Karen's solo album for an idea of hwo it sounded in an unfinished state.

Harry

 

[Chris May]

Yes, that's exactly right, and in the case of Richard and Karen typically, the bass, drums, keys and "work" lead vocal were all recorded at once (unless Karen was the drummer on the track of course).

"The Karen Carpenter Story" has MANY inconsistencies with regard to the real-life Richard and Karen. The scene where Karen sings "Now" I personally don't believe accurately depicts what actually took place. I would put money on it, that the rest of the instrumentation was being tracked right along-side Karen from the iso in Studio-D. I could be wrong, but from a production standpoint, and the intention of the "work" lead, not to mention Richard's typical procedure, it makes sense.

 

[no1kandrfan]

I'm a little confused, and perhaps this is covered elsewhere - but I'll ask anyway .

I understand Karen sang along with the piano, drums, bass to familiarize them with the song. Was the orchestra then playing live while she recorded her 'final' take, or was that recorded separately with Karen adding a vocal to the finished product?

Also, would the paino, drums, bass, etc. be re-recorded?

How did this work with Karen as drummer? Did someone else play the drums - during the initial session with Karen recording them to the final product?

Thanks!

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

no1kandrfan,

good points, it says that drums were performed by Ron Tutt. Richard says the orchestration was added in 1983 along with the singers and sax solo. Richard is not giving us exact dates so was the before or after Karen passed away. I am reading his notes that Karen performed the song with bass drums piano and then since Karen passed away, the song was never really finished to the way Richard wanted it, since it was a work lead, I wonder too would Karen have insisted to wanting to re-record it again.

But I am assuming that Richard added the singers, sax solo and orchestration after Karen passed away, so it's possible she never heard the way the song ultimately ended up. That is why I bet Richard has a copy of the original recording of Karen with just the basics, piano, drums and bass and just Karen's reading vocal.

We all know that hearing just those things can really make a song totally different, take for instance, Ava Maria, without the choir it's a whole different song.

Of course I could be wrong in all this. Just thinking out loud.

 

[Chris May]

I understand Karen sang along with the piano, drums, bass to familiarize them with the song. Was the orchestra then playing live while she recorded her 'final' take, or was that recorded separately with Karen adding a vocal to the finished product?

Karen would typically first sing the work-lead from an isolated room just off of the studio they would record in, while Richard, Joe and drummer would play through the the rhythm tracking in the other room. Richard mentioned that he'd often times record the string chart immediately following the recording of the bass/drums/piano because Karen liked to have the strings laid down before she'd polish her final master lead vocal. Many times the remainder of the orchestration/instrumentation and backing vocals would be cut following Karen's final lead, and sometimes she'd wait until everything was down depending on scheduling.

Also, would the paino, drums, bass, etc. be re-recorded?

Bass lines would be fixed in certain spots if needed, but generally if the drums made a mistake, that take stopped, and a re-take was recorded right away until they all got it right.

How did this work with Karen as drummer? Did someone else play the drums - during the initial session with Karen recording them to the final product?

When Karen drummed, there was no work lead recorded simultaneously, because Joe (bassist) was the only person who would have needed it. Karen and Richard already knew the tune. Plus, she couldn't sing a work-lead "live" while she was taping drums for the rhythm tracking because that vocal would bleed through all of the drum mics. So, the bass, piano and drums all went to tape with no lead vocal on Karen. It was immediately following the recording of the rhythm that she'd go in and throw down a work-lead for the rest of the players to hear during the subsequent overdubbing.

Thanks!

Welcome!

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

This is why I wish Richard would release a book or even a collection of his notes online, so we would know exactly how they recorded these tracks, especially in reference to these work leads or tracks he finished up after Karen passed away.

 

[Chris May]

This is why I wish Richard would release a book or even a collection of his notes online, so we would know exactly how they recorded these tracks, especially in reference to these work leads or tracks he finished up after Karen passed away.

I asked him at one point if he'd consider it, and he was pretty sure that wasn't going to happen! Buuut, in his older age, he's changing for the better....so, we'll see...

 

[no1kandrfan]

Thanks Chris and Chris - everything is much clearer. I wholeheartedly agree that a 'diary' of their recording sessions would be most welcome and highly treasured. I've often wondered how much feedback Karen had during the recording sessions; we know she was credited as associate producer on only a couple of albums. I wonder if this was because all the 'big' decisions were made by Richard? I can't imagine her not offering ideas, etc. during the sessions.

 

[Chris May]

I've often wondered how much feedback Karen had during the recording sessions; we know she was credited as associate producer on only a couple of albums.

To my recollection, the "Associate Producer" title was added for royalty purposes in order to draw equal income in their contracts.... Aaah, the music business!

 

[Walkinat9]

Kind of hard to imagine the intro without the reeds, but I suppose that's the way Karen heard it in early 1982...

Greg (playing "Now" again and making painstaking efforts to filter the keys, guitar, drums 'n' bass only )