Olivia and Karen in the Recording Studio*
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Jack A.
Well-Known Member
That is one of my main regrets about Karen’s life - that she never did any duets with other artists (other than the ones from the television specials, but I don’t really count those since they didn’t have a mainstream release).
Personally I would have loved to hear a KC and ONJ duet. Maybe they tried to do something together, but let’s be realistic - the Carpenters were mostly forgotten by the public at that point. Olivia was having major success in the early ‘80s, but if she wanted to have a successful duet to release as a single, I don’t know if KC would have done the trick. And there is also the other possibility you bring up, which is that their talents simply weren’t a good match.
I will be bold enough to say that any KC duets made after the A Kind Of Hush era likely would not have performed well commercially. But could you imagine the power in an early ‘70s duet between Karen and David Gates, when they were both at the height of their fame? Or if Karen had lived long enough to be part of “That’s What Friends Are For” with her other good friend Dionne (the inclusion of the other big-name artists likely still would have made that one a hit).
Personally I would have loved to hear a KC and ONJ duet. Maybe they tried to do something together, but let’s be realistic - the Carpenters were mostly forgotten by the public at that point. Olivia was having major success in the early ‘80s, but if she wanted to have a successful duet to release as a single, I don’t know if KC would have done the trick. And there is also the other possibility you bring up, which is that their talents simply weren’t a good match.
I will be bold enough to say that any KC duets made after the A Kind Of Hush era likely would not have performed well commercially. But could you imagine the power in an early ‘70s duet between Karen and David Gates, when they were both at the height of their fame? Or if Karen had lived long enough to be part of “That’s What Friends Are For” with her other good friend Dionne (the inclusion of the other big-name artists likely still would have made that one a hit).
Vinylalbumcovers
Ah am so steel een luv weeth yoo
“That’s What Friends Are For” was done in an R&B style. Dionne, Gladys, and Stevie live in that space and Elton could get away with it. Karen would have been lost at sea. That just wasn’t her style. Too, it any of them would have tried to duet with Karen on her home musical turf, they all would have come up short.
Ed
Ed
^This.
There are certain voices that blend well with others and some voices don't blend well, and I think Karen's recognizable voice would dominate any duet she attempted. Naturally, her voice blended extremely well with Richard because of sibling similarities, but if she did a duet with anyone else, I think it would have had to be a "she sings one line and the other sings the next line" kind of duet.
Given the Carpenters admiration of Matt Monro, I've always thought it was a shame that they never performed with him. They could have been guest stars on a UK tv special during one of their visits to Europe.
Also, it would have been interesting to have heard a duet with the Cs and either Don McLean or Marty Robbins. If you look at the output of both men, they were able to handle a variety of different musical genres, as were the Cs.
Also, it would have been interesting to have heard a duet with the Cs and either Don McLean or Marty Robbins. If you look at the output of both men, they were able to handle a variety of different musical genres, as were the Cs.
Jack A.
Well-Known Member
Richard addressed that on the “Fans Ask” page, responding with “Not to my knowledge.”
Good Things
Me & Moo
Think about Babs and Donna Summer or Babs and Neil Diamond. On paper it seems ridiculous. But it worked. KC and Peter Cetara was ok but Phil should have thought about others rather than just those he produced. As time goes by I think Mr Ramone actually did more harm than good.
Another Son
Well-Known Member
In the mid 70s, Olivia NJ and Karen & Richard were going strong in America with their respective Top 40 careers, so probably had no thought of duetting with others on vinyl.
By the end of the 70s and early 80s, Olivia was at the very top whereas Karen’s popularity had, unfortunately, waned quite a lot so a prospective duet probably would have been looked on as bad for Olivia’s career (by anyone advising her), even if they were friends. TV specials were ok but appearing together on record while aiming for the very top of the Top 40 would have been a different thing.
Also, country artists and soul artists duetted together a reasonable amount in the 70s whereas it didn’t seem to be a very common thing with pop Top 40 artists. Every now and then, but not often, at all.
By the end of the 70s and early 80s, Olivia was at the very top whereas Karen’s popularity had, unfortunately, waned quite a lot so a prospective duet probably would have been looked on as bad for Olivia’s career (by anyone advising her), even if they were friends. TV specials were ok but appearing together on record while aiming for the very top of the Top 40 would have been a different thing.
Also, country artists and soul artists duetted together a reasonable amount in the 70s whereas it didn’t seem to be a very common thing with pop Top 40 artists. Every now and then, but not often, at all.
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Another Son
Well-Known Member
Personally, I don’t think I’d go for a duet between Olivia and Karen. I’d want to hear much more of Karen and less of Olivia.
I did like some of Olivia’s singles in the early 80s, at the time, and liked her mid-70s phase, too, although I was more of a casual listener than a fan.
I can’t really imagine a duet with Olivia and Karen coming off very well - plus what would the subject matter of the lyrics be? Maybe something about friendship - although that might have come across as pretty corny, at the time. Maybe a social comment song like ‘7 seconds’ by Neneh Cherry and Youssou N'Dour or ‘Don’t You Want Me’ by Eternal. Maybe an ‘advising each other about love’ song along the lines of ‘Enough is Enough’, (No More Tears)’ but not like ‘Enough is Enough’. (Please, Karen, no disco!)
To be honest, I don’t really like entertaining the idea.
I did like some of Olivia’s singles in the early 80s, at the time, and liked her mid-70s phase, too, although I was more of a casual listener than a fan.
I can’t really imagine a duet with Olivia and Karen coming off very well - plus what would the subject matter of the lyrics be? Maybe something about friendship - although that might have come across as pretty corny, at the time. Maybe a social comment song like ‘7 seconds’ by Neneh Cherry and Youssou N'Dour or ‘Don’t You Want Me’ by Eternal. Maybe an ‘advising each other about love’ song along the lines of ‘Enough is Enough’, (No More Tears)’ but not like ‘Enough is Enough’. (Please, Karen, no disco!)
To be honest, I don’t really like entertaining the idea.
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JohnFB
She was born to belong to the lines of a song...
Good thoughts - and a lot of the compatability with any singing partner would have depended greatly on that person's vocal strength and range - although Karen could "belt" (see A SONG FOR YOU & DESPERADO) her usual vocal dynamics were "soft and warm and soothing" - in the TV duet with Ella they were fairly evenly matched in terms of these dynamics and sounded good singing together, whereas in the TV duet with John Denver she was more or less "drowned out" by his strong, higher pitched voice. She sounded best of all singing with Perry Como exactly because his voice, while a little deeper, was just as soft and warm and soothing as her's- so, it wasn't always a case of "she sings/he sings next"...
JohnFB
She was born to belong to the lines of a song...
I can easily believe this is true, or rather, I'd like to believe it's true - this ties in with that often stated, but never verified, rumor that Frank once said that Karen was the only singer he would pay to see in concert...again, and understanding that given his prestige and power in the music industry to the extent that Frank would never have to pay to see anyone, I'd love to believe this is fact...(although I think that he would have payed to see Ella too, if he absolutely had to...).
Song4uman
Well-Known Member
Karen was recorded. Ella sang live.
JohnFB
She was born to belong to the lines of a song...
Yes, I did know that, but it didn't have any noticable effect on their basic compatability - although why Karen insisted on lip-synching to pre-recorded music on most of her TV appearances has never been satisfactorily explained (at least not to me), and was especially disappointing in her duet medley with Ella. It couldn't have been lack of self-confidence in her singing abilities given her (far too) many live concert appearances...
newvillefan
I Know My First Name Is Stephen
I’ve often wondered that. I think it’s too easy to say they pre-recorded her because they were studio animals. This was a missed opportunity to sing live alongside on of the greats.
One thing I have observed in all of Karen’s live performances is that the true richness of her voice doesn’t come across when she’s singing live - at least not on TV anyway (and this was a TV special). I don’t know whether that’s because she ‘sings out’ more when performing live, but the only way you can hear its true quality is when she is recorded on a really good studio mic, in more intimate surroundings, and cosseted by Richard’s production and musical textures. Maybe the idea of pre-recording her vocal was to ensure she matched up to Ella in the vocal richness department.
JohnFB
She was born to belong to the lines of a song...
A once in a lifetime chance as it turned out - there would have had to be a damn good reason...
I think that depended on the live performance and the recording in question - sometimes her voice sounded very "rich" in a live concert and sometimes it didn't in some recordings - and sometimes it was virtually impossible to tell what she sounded like on some recordings because her vocal was buried under far too many layers of orchestration and/or technical gimmicktry...
Maybe, but probably not - I think Karen knew very well that she didn't have anything to worry about when matching up "richness" with any other singer - she might have been a tad nervous about singing a duet with a legend like Ella, but she was too much of an experienced veteran performer to let that drive her to pre-record - who knows, maybe Ella herself just might have been a little concerned about matching up with Karen's richness???
Another Son
Well-Known Member
I think the 1971 BBC TV broadcast, the 1974 Budokan Japanese broadcast, the 1974 Dutch Grand Gala du Disque broadcast and the 1974 Arthur Fiedler and the Boston Pops US broadcast are four televised live performances where Karen’s voice sounds rich and close to the original studio productions. The Bacharach David Medley, live from the Riviera Hotel, Las Vegas, 1974, included on the ‘Anthology’ set, is a concert recording where her voice definitely sounds rich and full. But she was in her prime health-wise during these recordings, as seen in the footage, whereas she was clearly very unwell during the production of ‘Music, Music, Music’.
My guess is there are probably a range of reasons why Karen didn’t sing live with Ella on set in 1980, so all of the suggestions in the above posts might have truth to them.
My guess is there are probably a range of reasons why Karen didn’t sing live with Ella on set in 1980, so all of the suggestions in the above posts might have truth to them.
Another Son
Well-Known Member
Btw, I can’t imagine Ella being concerned about measuring up to Karen. 
She’d been recording since the 1930s and everything would have been second nature to her. She would have been quietly confident that she could hold her own in any situation, I’m sure, but, in Ella’s beautiful way, wouldn’t have been cocky or conceited.
She’d been recording since the 1930s and everything would have been second nature to her. She would have been quietly confident that she could hold her own in any situation, I’m sure, but, in Ella’s beautiful way, wouldn’t have been cocky or conceited.
newvillefan
I Know My First Name Is Stephen
Yeah, there’s no way that would have been the case.
ullalume
Well-Known Member
I've always wondered how Ella was approached for this special. Did she accept most offers, or was she highly selective? As an elder stateswoman of the business, was she even that familiar with the Carpenters music?
I love the outtakes from this sequence. When karen thinks she's not on camera you can see her get lost in Ella's performance. For a woman who couldn't take a compliment from Lennon this must have been very surreal for her, even after a decade of stardom.
I love the outtakes from this sequence. When karen thinks she's not on camera you can see her get lost in Ella's performance. For a woman who couldn't take a compliment from Lennon this must have been very surreal for her, even after a decade of stardom.
newvillefan
I Know My First Name Is Stephen
Tom Burris hadn’t, apparently.
Matthew S
Well-Known Member
Yeah, right.
