The official WHAT NOW MY LOVE comments thread and poll

[Harry]

The release date Shout! Factory's re-issue of WHAT NOW MY LOVE is Tuesday, June 7th. Some have already found the new disc, so this thread is going up a few days early. When you acquire the new disc, place all of your comments about it here and vote for your favorite track from it.

 

[Dave]

I picked "What Now My Love" as my Number-One favorite! And it's nice how IT made it to Definitive Hits, among some of the other compilations... And you don't really need the lyrics sung to really enjoy it, as it works as an instrumental, as well!

My second would have to be "The Shadow Of Your Smile", though I prefer a version, with singing, as it in some ways reminds me of other instrumental versions such as Boots' Randolph's version...but Herb's take is nothing short of excellent! I have an instrumental version of "It Was A Very Good Year" by Gabor Szabo (done in a "suite" on Side 1 of his Spellbinder album--which when put on a Best Of compilation, was omitted) and Herb also delivers it in exceptional quality, which ranks with... Yeah...vocal versions by everyone from Frank Sinatra, to The Kingston Trio!

And of course, Herb & The TjB's album cover is another one that, sort of tells a "story"!


Dave

 

[Captaindave]

Top three for me from this album are, and always have been:

1. So What's New - The trumpet styling here is classic Herb Alpert.

2. Memories of Madrid - The ensemble sound here is classic TJB form this time period. Powerful and bold brass lead driven by a full sounding, tight rhythm section.

3. The Shadow of Your Smile - The haunting trumpet sound and styling is again, classic Herb Alpert.

This is classic TJB from the "glory years."

 

[walterphil]

"what now my love" is my fave cut followed by rich man

and this is the first time i realized that this lp was after "going places." all these years i thought it was before. stupid me. but i guess it's because "going places" seems so much more...hit oriented?...diverse?...commercial...?

slight annoyance that the cover is an out take from "south of the border." i mean, i know these lps were probably rushed, but c'mon! at least give us a new chick!

 

[elswinger]

The girl on the cover looks particularly hot! Is that Dolores Erickson again?

 

[Captain Bacardi]

The girl on the cover looks particularly hot! Is that Dolores Erickson again?

I believe that's Sandy Moss, Jerry's former wife. Same setting as the South Of The Border album.


Capt. Bacardi

 

[Captain Bacardi]

I've just put this in the CD player, but have noticed one flaw already. The songwriter credit for "Plucky" is listed as the infamous Albert in the booklet.


Capt. Bacardi

 

[Timeframe]

Recording engineering here is more sophisticated than previous albums. The moderate-to-severe DC offset is gone, the sound is cleaner.

I have doubts though about "It Was a Very Good Year". It sounds muddy and not very focused - not like a "Master".

I'll post more as I hear.

Steve

 

[thetijuanataxi]

I voted for "Brasilia" although there are many worthy contenders on this album. "Freckles", "Magic Trumpet" and "WNML" to name a few. As for the Shout Factory reissue: In one sentence I would call this reissue a missed opportunity because there was a chance for Herb and SF to give us the fully dressed version of "Brasilia". I am neutral about "Plucky" as to the double bridge or bump/grind version. Either would have been fine with me, But it's high time we got the ORIGINAL version of "Brasilia". If for some crazy reason it's not available any more than there should have been something in the liner notes to ease the frustration about it. It's obvious that someone is aware of this lost opportunity because all of the sound samples fom WNML at every on line store start and end in the middle of the song so that you can't tell which version of "Brasilia" or "Plucky" is on the disc. That having been said, overall the disc is a vast improvement sonically to the 1988 A&M version. The sound is considerably fuller and has more bottom end and there's a lot more detail and depth to the sound. There are still a few areas wher it sounds a bit thin, primarily, I believe, because this is not the original master that was used to make the first million or so copies of the album in the 60's. I believe the reason for the better sound quality is Bernie Grundman doing the mastering on more updated equipment. I didn't catch the "Albert" misprint that Capt. Bacardi pointed out, but I did notice that they used an outake of the back cover of GOING PLACES for the disc inlay, which I thought was odd since there are many outake photos from the bullfight photo on the back of WNML floating around. Musically, I think they improved the sound of the disc as much as they could with what I believe is a second or third generation master. Art work and liner notes weren't bad either. In all, I'd give it a 7.5 out of 10. Sorry to seem so repetitive, but for me "Brasilia" without the tbone at the beginning is like "Taste Of Honey" would be if they suddenly decided to omit the drumbeats we've been used to all these years.

David,
one down, 2 to go..........

 

[AudiophilePhil]

It's hard to choose just one because there are too many good tracks in this album.

For me it's a four-way tie among the following songs:
Memories of Madrid
Plucky
So What's New
What Now My Love

I finally chose Plucky to give it one vote.

 

[Mike Blakesley]

I'm bummed that the 'original' version of "Brasilia" seems to be gone forever. I have always thought that the bone-less version of that song had to be some kind of error. It's just SO much better with the bone there. I know there are Shout!Factory people reading the forums...come on guys, find the fully-functional "Brasilia" for the box set, willya!

 

[thetijuanataxi]

I don't think that the Shout! Factory people decide which version of what song gets released. I think at best they pass info along to Herb and the rest of the crew as they read our forums. Whch is why I don't understand why this bone-less version of "Brasilia" was used for this once in a lifetime remastering project. It would seem that Herb would have wanted the best representation of each song to be used for this reissue. Surely Herb couldn't prefer the bone-less version? The man of a thousand hooks couldn't possibly be letting this sorely missed hook diappear into dust? BTW, if you notice on the bump and grind version of "Plucky" there is a bone fill or two missing on the bridge of the song.The bottom line: does the new reissue of WNML sound better than the 1988 A&M release? Yes. Considerably. Does it fill the void that was created by the version used for the 1988 CD? Sadly, no. In spite of all the conversations we've had on this subject, the powers that be, who supposedly read the forums, dropped the ball on that one. And I believe they know it. Hence, like I mentioned earlier, no online samples tell you which version it is.

David,
finding the reissue of WNML to be a "Bitterweet Samba"..........

 

[Harry]

One of my favorite A&M enigmas has been the WHAT NOW MY LOVE album. It was long a favorite - to me the title track is definitive TjB. When I think of the Tijuana Brass, I think of "What Now My Love" - it's an association that goes way back, and for that reason I often cite this album as my favorite, even though there are many favorites from all of the other albums as well.

Count me among the surprised when I heard this album on CD back in the '80s. I was one of those that grew up with the "other" mix and hearing some of these tracks in a new way somehow seemed wrong. The now un-reverbed "What Now My Love" was less of a shock, since that version had begun to appear on LP compilations in the '70s, as did the version of "Brasilia" with the missing fills (which eeked out a place on GREATEST HITS VOLUME 2). The big suprise came with "Plucky". "Where in the world did that 'bump'n'grind' section come from?" I asked myself. "Was it an outtake that Herb was now allowing us to hear?" There were no answers back in the '80s though, as one tended to just keep things like this to one's self as there was no Internet to enable feedback.

Years later, these topics came up here at A&M Corner as we dissected the old original albums, expressing our thoughts to our like-minded membership, with little or nothing really in the way of answers, other than that there were probably two different stereo masters of this album, and that regionally some people grew up with it one way, while others heard it the other way.

I've always felt that answer was a bit simplistic - perhaps correct, perhaps not. I look at the evidence and see the following:

If the CD version represents say a 'correct' West Coast master and that we in the East got a differently mixed version, then why did "What Now My Love" appear in its echoey version on the promo-only DEE JAY SAMPLER? Similarly, why did "Brasilia" appear with the fills on MUSIC BOX?

What happened to those tracks in the '70s when the GREATEST HITS compilations began to appear? By then, these so-called 'correct' West Coast masters appeared and we never heard from the other versions ever again.

Those are the questions that run through my mind as I listen to this album now, and I'm almost unable to enjoy the music as I notice the subtle differences in the mix. I say 'almost', but these tracks have a power to be enjoyable over and over again, as they stand on their own, no matter which mix it is.

I always found the old LP mix rather muddy sounding, lacking something in the highs. The old A&M CD was certainly brighter than any LP I'd heard.

Now comes the SHOUT! FACTORY edition. I too was immediately drawn to the misspelling of Herb's last name in the composing credit on "Plucky". Listening first to the album in the car, as I did with all three of the new releases yesterday, I was pleased that it sounded good there. At least I wasn't hearing any new dropouts or anomalies.

Here at home, I did an a/b comparison with the A&M CD from the '80s. First up was the title track and my enthusiasm began to wane. The old CD sounded brighter to me - better, clearer highs, and an overall better sound. (I'm one of those people that likes bright highs, so that's where I'm coming from.) The second track, "Freckles" sounded about the same to me on both discs, but after that, the brightness of the old CD again began to be noticeable on the rest of the tracks. I must say here that the difference is slight and many wouldn't notice it, but since we're all here to analyze these things to death, this is what I hear. A casual listener to just this one new disc would never notice anything, just like I didn't perceive anything yesterday in the car without anything else to compare it to. The new mastering and the EQ within is a choice, made by the powers that be. As David mentioned, the new mix, though a little less present in the highs, does have a fuller, more solid sound than the old CD. My preference for highs is what's coloring my opinion here. Others may find this mastering perfect to their liking.

While I agree with David that this seems to be a lost opportunity to explain the differences, perhaps include some other versions, I don't view the online sampling as any kind of coverup or conspiracy (my words, not his). I think the sound samples are pretty much random and just coincidence that we'd be unable to distinguish the versions from them. I regret that "Brasilia" seems to be set in stone now in this seemingly unfinished state, a sad reality that can only be rectified on some future box set. I fear though that the old LPs may be the only place that it'll exist.

"Plucky", I agree, is fine in either form. The bump'n'grind middle seems like a bonus to me and brings a smile to my face whenever I hear it.

"What Now My Love" - I've heard the flatter version now so many times on compilations and CDs that the old reverbed version is beginning to sound strange to me, so I guess it's fine in its current state.

From the liner notes of the three new albums, we've learned:

1. Herb never thought of the Tijuana Brass as a Latin sound.
2. Herb never thought of the Tijuana Brass as a Latin sound.
3. Herb never thought of the Tijuana Brass as a Latin sound.
4. Josh Kun is good at "copy" and "paste."

Geez, could these liner notes be more repetitive? Well, at least the outtake photos are fun, and I look on any day that I can walk into a record store and buy three new Herb Alpert CDs as a pretty good day.

Harry
...overall satisfied, with a few caviats, online...

 

[Rudy]

If the CD version represents say a 'correct' West Coast master and that we in the East got a differently mixed version, then why did "What Now My Love" appear in its echoey version on the promo-only DEE JAY SAMPLER?

I believe Dee Jay was for reissuing the singles on a 12" LP format...maybe the reverb version was considered the single version?

 

[Mr Bill]

This reissue is one of the better sounding ones so far. I am disappointed in "Brasilia" being the "boneless" version (it's there, but mixed way, way, way low).

I have a theory about "Plucky"'s "bump & grind"... I suspect that it was originally in there and then Herb decided to "reedit" the tune without it because there's a similar "bump & grind" in "Freckles." Remember WNML was "rushed" and didn't even get it's own cover photo (a left over image for SOTB was used) because of the heavy touring at the time. So in the earliest days of its release there were likely two versions. Years later when it came time to do the A&M CDs, the earlier version got pulled out of the vaults for CD mastering (doesn't essplen the "Brasilia" issue...

Of course, we can hope and pray that the "boned" version will appear on Lost Treasures, Volume 2 in 2006!

--Mr Bill

 

[Harry]

If the CD version represents say a 'correct' West Coast master and that we in the East got a differently mixed version, then why did "What Now My Love" appear in its echoey version on the promo-only DEE JAY SAMPLER?

I believe Dee Jay was for reissuing the singles on a 12" LP format...maybe the reverb version was considered the single version?

Close...but no cigar. Recall that the MONO version of the DEE JAY SAMPLER used the mono single versions of songs, but the stereo version of it used the standard stereo album mixes.

Harry

 

[Mike Blakesley]

Odd that the album was "rushed" out. I remember the story that there were major amounts of advance orders for this one before it was even released. You'd think that fact would have made Herb want to make sure it was as perfect as possible-- touring or no touring.

I guess we can only speculate on what went on back then. The dynamics of the biz were certainly different in those days -- it was more "get as many albums out, as fast as possible."

The whole Brasilia thing has me wondering just who is doing the final signing-off to these remastered versions.

 

[Captain Bacardi]

I don't think that the Shout! Factory people decide which version of what song gets released.

You're absolutely right! So before people start bombarding Shout! with a bunch of pointless e-mails asking "why?" let it be known that Herb has complete say on what is being released. Shout! is only putting out what Herb wants out.


Capt. Bacardi

 

[Mike Blakesley]

One other thing -- to be fair to the audio sample people -- usually, most audio samples are 30 seconds, beginning one minute into the song. With most songs, a minute is about where the "chorus" or most recognizable part of the song, kicks in, so I don't think anyone's trying to "hide" anything with those Brasilia and Plucky samples. It's just where the sample naturally falls.

 

[AM Matt]

I just heard & bought the CD yesterday afternoon & at the end of "The Shadow Of Your Smile", there is 5 or 6 seconds cut off of the song. I do have the original "What Now My Love" album on the A&M tan label which has that. There are ECHOES on the song "Five Minutes More" on the reissued CD. Wonder if the original song "Plucky" (2:21 instead of 2:41) will be on the box set? Matt Clark Sanford, MI

 

[thetijuanataxi]

To Mike Blakesley: If there's no attempt being made to conceal which version of BRASILIA is on this reissue, then why do the GOING PLACES and S.R.O samples start at the beginning of each song on Amazon and the WNML samples are all in the middle of each song? As Ricky Ricardo would say, "Splain dat one".

David,
still convinced they know............

 

[Mike Blakesley]

I never said that there was a federal law that all samples must start at a certain point. I was just "splaining" that OFTEN, samples start at one minute into the music so as to give you a taste of the chorus, rather than just the intro.

It's entirely probable that two different workers put those samples together, and worker #1 used the "one minute in" method for WNML, and worker #2 used the "from the beginning" method for GP and SRO. Let's get real here -- what exactly would be THE POINT of concealing which "Brasilia" it is???

 

[Mr Bill]

Let's get real here -- what exactly would be THE POINT of concealing which "Brasilia" it is???

<sarcasm ON> Why, to annoy those of us with OCD, of course! (Myself included) <sarcasm OFF>

--Mr Bill

 

[Rudy]

Whoever creates the sound samples attempts to choose that part of the song (melody) that might be the most recognizable. It could be from the beginning or at any random point. Plus, who at the record label is going to know there are two different versions of the song? Hardly anyone (and they'd have to be reading our forum right now to learn about it, most likely).

There's no "conspiracy" here. Let's drop this line of discussion or I'll lock the thread.

 

[Captain Bacardi]

So, getting back to reviewing...

It seems to me that the banjos are a bit more up front on both "Freckles" and "Plucky" than before, as well as the xylophone on "Magic Trumpet". As with the other reissues it seems the highs are a bit crisper than before. Overall, I like the sound of this - even if the trombone is missing on Brasilia. But hell, I can just put my own horn on that and take care of that little problem.

I chose "Memories Of Madrid" as my favorite cut. I've always liked the chord structure of this song, and Julius's marimba playing is very nice. "Cantina Blue", "Freckles", "So What's New?" and "Five Minutes More" are my follow-up faves.



Capt. Bacardi