Those Good Old Dreams

[Sue]

Every so often I see a short snippet of Karen singing TGOD on the chat show the Carpenters were on with Olivia NJ in 1980?? I think they also performed Want You Back in My Life... on the same show. I've searched for this performance of TGOD but can only find the interview and the performance of WYBIML. Am I imagining I've seen this or does a video actually exist?

 

[WYBIMLA]

It appeared in the newer documentary "Karen Carpenter: Goodbye to love."


@1:02:24

The filmmaker had access to it. I'm not sure how he did and for what price, but it exists in an archive somewhere.

 

[newvillefan]

As a result of a direct request from members of this forum, the filmmakers of the above documentary tried to obtain a copy of the full (as yet unreleased) performance of Those Good Old Dreams from The Merv Griffin Show for general release but were told “no” by the company which owns the copyright to the material. The performance was cut from the final edit of the show when it originally aired in late 1981, which is why you cannot find it anywhere in its full form.

 

[CARPENTERS-COLLECTOR]

As a result of a direct request from members of this forum, the filmmakers of the above documentary tried to obtain a copy of the full (as yet unreleased) performance of Those Good Old Dreams from The Merv Griffin Show for general release but were told “no” by the company which owns the copyright to the material. The performance was cut from the final edit of the show when it originally aired in late 1981, which is why you cannot find it anywhere in its full form.

probably why I only have 9 minutes of it at the beginning of this compilation;

 

[Sue]

As a result of a direct request from members of this forum, the filmmakers of the above documentary tried to obtain a copy of the full (as yet unreleased) performance of Those Good Old Dreams from The Merv Griffin Show for general release but were told “no” by the company which owns the copyright to the material. The performance was cut from the final edit of the show when it originally aired in late 1981, which is why you cannot find it anywhere in its full form.

probably why I only have 9 minutes of it at the beginning of this compilation;

Thanks for explaining.Such a shame I would love to see the whole of TGOD. I know we have 2 examples but one of them is such poor quality.

 

[newvillefan]

It appeared in the newer documentary "Karen Carpenter: Goodbye to love."


@1:02:24

The filmmaker had access to it. I'm not sure how he did and for what price, but it exists in an archive somewhere.

For those of you looking for it in this documentary, it appears at 1:02:22

 

[Jarred]

Even seeing those brief seconds of it on the air in 1981 you can see how painfully out of touch they were with the times musically. The 80s backdrop, Karen's 80s attire clashing with the feel-good, wholesome, buttery melody of the song that sounds like from the early 70s. It's probably a good thing it was cut. Now I love the song a lot, but in a commercial context it was DOA and would have made their image issues worse if promoted more. Want You Back was a lot more fitting with the look and the times, with its contemporary flavor.

 

[Rumbahbah]

Even seeing those brief seconds of it on the air in 1981 you can see how painfully out of touch they were with the times musically. The 80s backdrop, Karen's 80s attire clashing with the feel-good, wholesome, buttery melody of the song that sounds like from the early 70s. It's probably a good thing it was cut. Now I love the song a lot, but in a commercial context it was DOA and would have made their image issues worse if promoted more. Want You Back was a lot more fitting with the look and the times, with its contemporary flavor.

In fairness, 'Back in My Life Again' didn't cut it commercially either (if anything, it looked even more incongruous being performed in the setting you describe than 'Those Good Old Dreams' would have done - a slight attempt at an updated sound married with an image straight out of their TV specials). However, I'd agree that 'Those Good Old Dreams' was too safe-sounding and wasn't strong enough to be a single.

It would be nice to see the whole performance, but as it's a lip-sync, it's not like we're missing out on a one-off vocal or anything. And in any case, it's always so sad to see Karen at this point.

 

[Bobberman]

Say what you will but "Those good old dreams" forever remains one of my All time favorite Carpenters Songs and for unanswerable reasons keeps me feeling a little younger

 

[Kacfan]

Is it known why they didn’t do touch me when we’re dancing instead? Is it to do with the timing of the singles?

 

[GaryAlan]

October 1981. Merv Griffin. I rather doubt this syndicated broadcast made it to many homes,
so, no matter what Carpenters had performed, it would have impacted their image in no
measurable (or meaningful) way whatsoever (at this point in time).
Remember, Christmas Portrait LP finally reached Gold status in 1981.
In any event, Carpenters had been lip-synching quite a bit already since 1976,
so that would have made no impact, one way or the other, either.
But, looking only at the "single" releases throughout their career, when were they trendy anyway ?
Those Good Old Dreams, as far as I am concerned, is a great song.
That the song did not resonate with the public (or radio programmers ?)
stems more from deeper issues than any mere choice of it as a single release (off MIA LP).

 

[newvillefan]

Is it known why they didn’t do touch me when we’re dancing instead? Is it to do with the timing of the singles?

More than likely. Touch Me When We're Dancing was released on June 19, 1981. The Merv Griffin episode was taped on September 1, 1981 (and aired 2, October 1981), so by then the single would no longer have even been on the Billboard charts. (Want You) Back In My Life Again was released in September 1981 and Those Good Old Dreams released in December 1981, so it makes much more sense that these two songs were chosen for their appearance on the show.

What does baffle me with some of the other appearances in 1981 is that they performed songs from years earlier. Why on earth were they performing Top Of The World whilst in France and Germany, and Close To You and We've Only Just Begun in Brazil? They were supposed to be promoting the new album. Why didn't they perform any songs on any shows in the UK?

 

[Harry]

Merv Griffin. I rather doubt this syndicated broadcast made it to many homes,

Merv Griffin was syndicated and ran on a huge affiliate in Philly, channel 6, WPVI-TV, the ABC station. In New York, it ran on WNEW-TV, Channel 5. I believe on most stations, it ran largely in late afternoon, prior to the 6 PM news on many of the stations that aired it, and it got substantial ratings for a good portion of its run.

 

[GaryAlan]

Until I see some actual numbers (which, so far, I am unable to locate),
I will stand by my opinion:
"I rather doubt that this October 1981 broadcast made it to many homes."

 

[Rumbahbah]

What does baffle me with some of the other appearances in 1981 is that they performed songs from years earlier. Why on earth were they performing Top Of The World whilst in France and Germany, and Close To You and We've Only Just Begun in Brazil? They were supposed to be promoting the new album. Why didn't they perform any songs on any shows in the UK?

You're right, it is a bit strange that they didn't perform on any UK TV shows. That said, there weren't many shows on then on which they could have performed - they couldn't appear on Top of the Pops as they didn't have a charting single at the time and there wasn't really an interview show like Wogan on the air at the time that would have been an obvious choice for them to appear on.

Your other point is entirely valid too - the performances of back catalogue songs in Europe and Brazil is baffling to put it mildly. How exactly was this promoting the album they were travelling to these places to specifically promote?

 

[newvillefan]

How exactly was this promoting the album they were travelling to these places to specifically promote?

Exactly my point. They went half way around the world to promote a new album, with Karen in the condition she was, and then performed more songs from their back catalogue than they did songs from the new album. It doesn't make sense. There was also Sing, performed in Paris with Julio Iglesias, so that's yet another one.

 

[newvillefan]

You're right, it is a bit strange that they didn't perform on any UK TV shows. That said, there weren't many shows on then on which they could have performed - they couldn't appear on Top of the Pops as they didn't have a charting single at the time and there wasn't really an interview show like Wogan on the air at the time that would have been an obvious choice for them to appear on.

There are a couple of shows they could have appeared on, such as The Mike Yarwood Show or Pebble Mill At One (Dionne Warwick appeared on the latter in 1982 with a full orchestra, so that show did attract the big US names).

 

[Rumbahbah]

There are a couple of shows they could have appeared on, such as The Mike Yarwood Show or Pebble Mill At One (Dionne Warwick appeared on the latter in 1982 with a full orchestra, so that show did attract the big US names).

I'd forgotten about Pebble Mill, although that was filmed in Birmingham rather than London I think, which may explain why Richard and Karen didn't appear on it.

 

[newvillefan]

I'd forgotten about Pebble Mill, although that was filmed in Birmingham rather than London I think, which may explain why Richard and Karen didn't appear on it.

Good point, the studio was in Birmingham but was demolished a few years ago, so now it literally is a pebble mill

 

[Another Son]

I will stand by my opinion:
"I rather doubt that this October 1981 broadcast made it to many homes."

I would have thought that a lot of people would have been tuning in to see Olivia Newton-John at that time - her career was peaking - and that would have been the point of Karen and Richard appearing on this show that featured her. The two acts had the same manager. ONJ’s ‘Physical’ single was one of the biggest hit singles ever in the USA around that time, it was daringly suggestive for the times and therefore attention-grabbing, she had a new eye-popping, (at the time), image to attract viewers and she’d had other comparatively recent Number Ones in the US in the not too distant past, such as ‘Magic’, just over a year earlier. The way Olivia looks, although extremely tame compared to the way women appear in 2019 in the entertainment world, was riskingly revealing and saucy for 1981. She had an aggressively marketed and sexy, (for the time), video album, a never-before seen format, tempting hot-blooded males and played in its entirety on tv and attracting A LOT of attention. Sequenced videos with purpose-built sets and choreography to illustrate the songs, as well as costumes and poses aimed specifically to make people sit up and notice, had never been done before. Olivia was big business right then, and at the top of her game. You can see she’s playing the part of the seductive temptress to the hilt in this interview, to capitalise, which would have been the whole point. The deal of having Carpenters appear with her at this point would be so that some of her viewers would notice and remember Karen and Richard and for some of ONJ’s magic to rub off on them. That also would have been the point of them performing a new release, ‘Back In My Life Again’. It would have been hoped that appearing with Olivia would kick-start the success of the single. That would be why they didn’t perform an old and mediocre hit like ‘Touch Me When We’re Dancing’. But apart from the business side of the appearance, you can see that ONJ and Olivia are genuine friends.
Having said all that, I know nothing of the reach or viewership of the Merv Griffin show, so I don’t know which audience they are all trying to drag in there.

 

[Another Son]

...or which audience they are all trying to entrance, I should say.

 

[A&M Retro]

Until I see some actual numbers (which, so far, I am unable to locate),
I will stand by my opinion:
"I rather doubt that this October 1981 broadcast made it to many homes."

That’s not true. Merv Griffin was extremely popular (especially back in ‘81) and he was syndicated all over the country. Millions of daytime TV watchers saw Carpenters that day.

 

[Jarred]

I would have thought that a lot of people would have been tuning in to see Olivia Newton-John at that time - her career was peaking - and that would have been the point of Karen and Richard appearing on this show that featured her. The two acts had the same manager. ONJ’s ‘Physical’ single was one of the biggest hit singles ever in the USA around that time, it was daringly suggestive for the times and therefore attention-grabbing, she had a new eye-popping, (at the time), image to attract viewers and she’d had other comparatively recent Number Ones in the US in the not too distant past, such as ‘Magic’, just over a year earlier. The way Olivia looks, although extremely tame compared to the way women appear in 2019 in the entertainment world, was riskingly revealing and saucy for 1981. She had an aggressively marketed and sexy, (for the time), video album, a never-before seen format, tempting hot-blooded males and played in its entirety on tv and attracting A LOT of attention. Sequenced videos with purpose-built sets and choreography to illustrate the songs, as well as costumes and poses aimed specifically to make people sit up and notice, had never been done before. Olivia was big business right then, and at the top of her game. You can see she’s playing the part of the seductive temptress to the hilt in this interview, to capitalise, which would have been the whole point. The deal of having Carpenters appear with her at this point would be so that some of her viewers would notice and remember Karen and Richard and for some of ONJ’s magic to rub off on them. That also would have been the point of them performing a new release, ‘Back In My Life Again’. It would have been hoped that appearing with Olivia would kick-start the success of the single. That would be why they didn’t perform an old and mediocre hit like ‘Touch Me When We’re Dancing’. But apart from the business side of the appearance, you can see that ONJ and Olivia are genuine friends.
Having said all that, I know nothing of the reach or viewership of the Merv Griffin show, so I don’t know which audience they are all trying to drag in there.

It must have been hard to watch Karen see Olivia thrive at being so free and independent, in control of her own (sexy) image and being satisfied with it. Karen was so far physically from Olivia was (sensual, suggestive) and their musical outputs couldn't have been more different; especially with one soaring and the other quickly slipping downwards. Karen was much more talented and her work holds up better today (I like Olivia but her voice has little resonance for me), but at the moment it must have been painful.

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

That’s not true. Merv Griffin was extremely popular (especially back in ‘81) and he was syndicated all over the country. Millions of daytime TV watchers saw Carpenters that day.

Especially if Olivia was on but I’m a bit biased.

 

[newvillefan]

But apart from the business side of the appearance, you can see that ONJ and Olivia are genuine friends.

As Richard once said, “you can’t beat a blend with yourself”