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Tijuana Brass Differences in recordings*

abstract_fan

Well-Known Member
Thread Starter
Do we have on the Forum a comprehensive list of the differences between Tijuana Brass/TJB recordings of the same song? (i.e., this thread is inspired by the recent posting by Harry of Sleigh Ride - mono mix; an eye opener for this fan since 1966)

NOTE: I do not mean different versions, like the solo versions of "A Taste of Honey", "Lonely Bull" etc.; I mean different mixes, different trumpet lines, etc. on the Tijuana Brass/TJB recordings only.

I'll start, briefly, and please join in.

Mono:
The Lonely Bull
Crawfish
Mexican Corn
Numero Cinco
Tijuana Taxi
Shadow of Your Smile
Plucky
Brasilia
Treasure of San Miguel
Monday, Monday
A Beautiful Friend
Thanks For The Memory
Sleigh Ride
Without Her

Others:
This Guy's In Love With You; Yo Soy Ese Amor; Un Ragazzo Che Ti Ama
The songs previously released, on Lost Treasures including the third mix of "Up Cherry Street"
Zorba The Greek (45 RPM version)
Las Mananitas (45 RPM version)
The Happening (45 RPM version)
Something Festive's - Winter Wonderland and Jingle Bell Rock
Songs adapted for TV - e.g., Work Song
Darlin' (CD version)
 

Harry

Charter A&M Corner Member
Staff member
Site Admin
Off the top of my head I'd add:

Acapulco 1922 - the original mono has no wood-block percussion
Carmen - Herb's trumpet in the slow part in the middle bridge has more reverb on the mono version.
What Now My Love - more echoed, or "wet" trumpet in alternate stereo, wet trumpet in mono, dry trumpet in main stereo
So What's New - whistle part is not reverbed in main stereo, more echoed in the alternate stereo and mono
To Wait For Love - totally different vocal lead on mono single versus stereo album
 

Bobberman

Well-Known Member
Las mananitas on the single mono mix theres no chorus or strings and while on the christmas album in stereo theres a chorus and an extra guitar and strings. Just as an example
 

Harry

Charter A&M Corner Member
Staff member
Site Admin
Ah, also forgot "A Taste Of Honey", a very minor difference. At the key change, at around 2:07, Herb plays the melody with a little answer note in the stereo version. The mono version misses that answer note twice.
 

Harry

Charter A&M Corner Member
Staff member
Site Admin
Oh, and "I've Grown Accustomed To Her Face" - Both the A&M and HAP CD begin with a travelling mandolin. It starts in the left channel and "walks" over to the right before the main melody starts. The Shout doesn't do that. The mandolin starts right and stays right.
 

Bobberman

Well-Known Member
Plucky on WNML on the dry mix there is a the slow bump and grind part which doesnt exist on either the wet vinyl mix. Or the original 45 plucky appears on.
 

Bobberman

Well-Known Member
Also there is a difference on Numero cinco which vary between stereo and mono versions depending on the pressings there is the opening intro spoken in spanish it was on the original mono 45 and some stereo and mono versions of SOTB. And some versions didnt have it.
 

Bobberman

Well-Known Member
Tijuana taxi has a couple differences between 3 sources the version on Going places Lp in mono Has No Taxi horn until almost to the last line of the song while the single version is chock full of taxi horns Even in the middle of Julius Wechter's marimba solo but the version on Going places album in stereo is almost identical to the single version except Minus the taxi horns in the wechter solo.
 

Mike Blakesley

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Moderator
And of course there is the oft-mentioned "Brasilia" differences.... trombone in the intro, and extra trumpet riff toward the end of the first verse in the "wet" version -- both missing in all CD issues and the "dry" LP versions.
 

abstract_fan

Well-Known Member
Thread Starter
So.... my next question (and I asked it before, sorry), I can understand mono mixes of the same material , but I just don't get:

...why there are 2 solos on Crawfish.

Acapulco 1922 have sounded just fine in stereo without the wood block percussion.

On Tijuana Taxi - who thought of changing the number of horns?

Brasilia/trombone

etc. ... to name just a few.

I'm OK with you telling me (fan since '66) to get a life, and/or please provide your theory.
 

Harry

Charter A&M Corner Member
Staff member
Site Admin
So.... my next question (and I asked it before, sorry), I can understand mono mixes of the same material , but I just don't get:

...why there are 2 solos on Crawfish.

A theory that fits with the times in which the record was made: The original "Crawfish" was made without a solo at all, but it was decided after the track was done to add the middle solo. Herb recorded that solo right onto the mono master and when it was realized that they'd need a stereo version too, they couldn't use the flown-in solo since it only existed on the mono master, so Herb just noodled another one for the stereo version. The thought back then that anyone would own both the stereo and the mono was non-existent - and it just didn't matter.

Acapulco 1922 have sounded just fine in stereo without the wood block percussion.

But there wouldn't have been any stereo component to that mono recording. People who bought stereo albums back there wanted to hear their two speakers playing different sounds.

On Tijuana Taxi - who thought of changing the number of horns?

The taxi horns were likely on a separate track and when mastering the mono album version, someone (Larry Levine?) forgot to fade that horn track up. He got it right on the stereo version, and they made extra ones for the single so it would stand out and be more "fun" on the radio.

Brasilia/trombone

Our theory is that Herb mastered the dry stereo version and that the wet stereo was Larry Levine, and it was intended to be a mono mix. Mono mixes often had little extra bits to make them punch through on AM radio, and the wet stereo version may have been a pre-fold down version of the mono album. That wet stereo master may have been sent to east coast mastering houses while the dry mastering went to the west. We'll basically never really know the answer as those who would know are either gone or not talking about it.
 

Bobberman

Well-Known Member
i for one appreciate the differences i think its nice to hear Herb's music in different ways and Thanks Harry for the history of these differences. And the theory on WNML that would make perfect sense
 
The case of the "wet and dry" WNML album(s) is much like the two versions of the Capitol RUBBER SOUL: the one pressed in L.A. has no reverb...while, the ones pressed in the Northeast factories have.
Personally, re: WNML: I never knew an alternate mix ever existed --- the stereo record my father bought in 1966 (and A&M OR-4114 reel tape he bought in 1968) are *both* WET.
 

Bobberman

Well-Known Member
A theory that fits with the times in which the record was made: The original "Crawfish" was made without a solo at all, but it was decided after the track was done to add the middle solo. Herb recorded that solo right onto the mono master and when it was realized that they'd need a stereo version too, they couldn't use the flown-in solo since it only existed on the mono master, so Herb just noodled another one for the stereo version. The thought back then that anyone would own both the stereo and the mono was non-existent - and it just didn't matter.



But there wouldn't have been any stereo component to that mono recording. People who bought stereo albums back there wanted to hear their two speakers playing different sounds.



The taxi horns were likely on a separate track and when mastering the mono album version, someone (Larry Levine?) forgot to fade that horn track up. He got it right on the stereo version, and they made extra ones for the single so it would stand out and be more "fun" on the radio.



Our theory is that Herb mastered the dry stereo version and that the wet stereo was Larry Levine, and it was intended to be a mono mix. Mono mixes often had little extra bits to make them punch through on AM radio, and the wet stereo version may have been a pre-fold down version of the mono album. That wet stereo master may have been sent to east coast mastering houses while the dry mastering went to the west. We'll basically never really know the answer as those who would know are either gone or not talking about it.
The theory on WNML May hold true for The SOTB album too
 

abstract_fan

Well-Known Member
Thread Starter
Excellent, plausible explanations and theories Harry.

A bit of pushback, and again, at anytime I'm comfortable with someone telling this fan since '66: I should get a life.

Example:
My Question:
Acapulco 1922 have sounded just fine in stereo without the wood block percussion.
Response:
But there wouldn't have been any stereo component to that mono recording. People who bought stereo albums back there wanted to hear their two speakers playing different sounds.
Follow-Up Question:
Then why not have it on the mono version?
 
Well, again (to cite the Beatles as a co-contemporary example): The Capitol stereo version of the song "I'm Looking Through You"; is the only version in the world with the "false start" not edited off the beginning of it.
 

Harry

Charter A&M Corner Member
Staff member
Site Admin
Excellent, plausible explanations and theories Harry.

A bit of pushback, and again, at anytime I'm comfortable with someone telling this fan since '66: I should get a life.

Example:
My Question:
Acapulco 1922 have sounded just fine in stereo without the wood block percussion.
Response:
But there wouldn't have been any stereo component to that mono recording. People who bought stereo albums back there wanted to hear their two speakers playing different sounds.
Follow-Up Question:
Then why not have it on the mono version?

The basic recording, the one on the single and the mono album, *is* mono. It has just one channel (or the exact same sounds on left and channels). The woodblocks and other percussion were added to a left and/or right channel to give the impression to those who spent the extra dollar for the stereo album that they were getting something in stereo.

The mono recording, as it was, didn't *need* the extra percussion - it was fine the way it was, it was just mono. So to give the folks who spent that extra buck for stereo their record, Herb & Co added a percussion track to one side with an echo that fades to the right, all alongside the basic mono recording. The mono album was fine without the extra stuff.
 

abstract_fan

Well-Known Member
Thread Starter
Another plausible explanation. Still not sure.

I remember the old Saturday Night Live skit with William Shatner guesting at a Star Trek Convention when a questioner asks him some tiny detail of an episode of Star Trek, and Shatner responds exasperatedly: "Get a life." I can picture myself asking Herb "What about the monaural mix of Acapulco 1922, why no bongos?" He's too polite to respond "Get a life."

The Beatles did it too: Helter Skelter is different in mono and stereo; And I Love Her has a rare mix with a little extra guitar at the end. Perfectionists all, with minor differences of the same song. And therefore not definitive versions.

Why does Herb play Shadow of Your Smile all the way through exactly on mono and stereo, and then changes the last phrase?

OK. Back to my day job.
 
Probably, the most famous example -of stuff like this- in pop *history*- would be the Stones first Top 10: TIME IS ON MY SIDE.
The single (and London "12x5" album) use the original recording of it having an organ intro...while; all the compilations of their hits during the pre-cd era, used a re-recording which became the "standard" (the one featuring the guitar intro).
 

Captain Bacardi

Well-Known Member
Moderator
If I remember right Herb and Larry Levine did different mixes. It was either Herb did the mono mix and Larry did the stereo - or it was the other way around. That could have a lot to do with the differences as well.
 

Bobberman

Well-Known Member
If I remember right Herb and Larry Levine did different mixes. It was either Herb did the mono mix and Larry did the stereo - or it was the other way around. That could have a lot to do with the differences as well.
I think you are correct i think it was Herb who did the stereo and Larry who did the Mono and i believe that had a lot to do with it based on what i understood previously. Then again i could be wrong as i am getting older ( Never thought i would ever say that.)
 

Harry

Charter A&M Corner Member
Staff member
Site Admin
Let's keep this thread on track with differences in TjB recordings. I've split off the solo discussion to another thread.
 
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