Week #8: Favorite Carpenters Song/Album: 'PASSAGE'
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Rick-An Ordinary Fool
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aaflyer98
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I have just listened to "I Just Fall In Love Again" after reading the posts that said it sounds like Karen had a head cold while recording this. In my opinion, I don't think she did. She sounds clear as a bell to me on this one. I can't even imagine Karen allowing herself to be recorded with a cold. Even with recording deadlines, both Karen and Richard were perfectionists and I highly doubt either one of them would have allowed a recording without the vocal as perfect as they both would like. Maybe I'm wrong...but that's my opinion.
Jeff
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Was I JUST FALL...one of the live tracks recorded in the Passage sessions? I haven't referred to the liner notes recently but I believe Richard mentioned that some of the orchestration and lead vocals weren't produced in typical studio fashion. This may account for slightly different interpretations.
Someone in the know, please clarify.
Jeff
Someone in the know, please clarify.
Jeff
Yes several of Passage tracks were recorded on A&M soundstage due to size of Orchestra / Chorale Singers plus Carpenters group members & backroom staff 
Don't Cry For Me Argentina
Calling Occupants
I Just Fall In Love Again
Peter Knight provided his first major Carpenters studio input as Arranger / Orchestrator ....having worked with Carpenters in a live concert capacity previously ....so the tone , feel and results are different to previous albums
B'wana & Man Smart have a definite Live / Jamming sound / tempo to these tracks ...again Richard was experimenting after his dissatisfaction with Hush album ....in line with the radical Live 1976 Tour ...Carpenters sought new directions / sounds in the studio
Still to decide on favourites from Passage .....very close between three songs to date .....will consider further .....
Peter
Don't Cry For Me Argentina
Calling Occupants
I Just Fall In Love Again
Peter Knight provided his first major Carpenters studio input as Arranger / Orchestrator ....having worked with Carpenters in a live concert capacity previously ....so the tone , feel and results are different to previous albums
B'wana & Man Smart have a definite Live / Jamming sound / tempo to these tracks ...again Richard was experimenting after his dissatisfaction with Hush album ....in line with the radical Live 1976 Tour ...Carpenters sought new directions / sounds in the studio
Still to decide on favourites from Passage .....very close between three songs to date .....will consider further .....
Peter
Rick-An Ordinary Fool
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I am also one that felt Karen sounded different on "I Just Fall In Love Again" It always made me think she had a cold also. She does sound somewhat nasal to me not drastic but enough for me to notice a difference. I've not been a fan of that song in general maybe it's because of the way the final track sounds to me.
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Ah am so steel een luv weeth yoo
Mike Blakesley said:
I'm listening to both versions of this song as I type this. I disagree that their arrangement is a rehash of Klaatu's. The rhythm arrangement is somewhat similar (the drum sounds are quite similar and the two versions share similar compression in the chorus) but Klaatu's arrangement is much less involved and far less of a production. Richard's production is Klaatu's arrangement taken to near-earthquake proportions - even without the strings. The mix engineer renders the whole song far spacier and cleaner than Klaatu's version. Clearly, Richard was either working with more money to do as he wished or Richard is simply a better producer - which most certainly could be the case. He was most definitely working with a better singer. If there is a failing with the Carpenters' version, it's that Karen sounds too good on it. She sings it the same way that she'd sing a love song. Very sweetly and beautifully. The vocal on a song like this should be somewhat disembodied and detached - not sweet. Karen probably couldn't help that but Richard could have made her vocal a bit colder at the mixing desk.
As an aside, I think Klaatu got the alien voice down better than Richard did..
Ed
andywithaz
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newvillefan
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Only Yesterday
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That's a great album, I think critics may like this album more than C's fans, once I think they went too far on this one. It's not a bad thing, at all, but it just pushed away some fans and their image problem plus a previous weaker album ( Hush ) kept their non fans even more against them.
B'wana - I really like this song, it has a nice beat, nice lyrics, K's makes a great work here very nice.
All You Get - I love this one, even better than the previous. Love the beat, the drums, K's again is great. Maybe the overdubs could be better choice than the Carpettes, especially listen what the Bee Gees were doing by the same time, still a great song that as all the other singles from this album should have charted better.
I Just Fall - This song grew on me with the time...I've learn to appreciate and love this song...so beautiful, I have to agree that the very end is the high point of the song. The Gregg Smith were greatly used. Also think it could have charted very well, if it were released by the time.
Argentina - The song is good, K's once again outshines all the other versions, but altough it brings a climax to it, I'd had take the introduction off. Most of the time I skip this tune because of it.
Sweet - Just love this one, since from the first time I've heard it...just great...amazing, should charted better also...
Man Smart - This is another skipper song. In this case, could never been recorded...it already has BWSNH to put a edge ( sound and lyrics ), they definitively didn't need this one.
Calling - Altough not a favourite, I think it's amazing. Great arrangement, excellent work from R'c. It's his song, more than K's. Fantastic, it has a edge, different lyrics than we're used to hear from them, could charted better.
My most favorite song here comes to be...Two Sides...what a great song, amazing lyrics, wonderful job by K's, she displays her fantastic range, also a masterpiece of arrangement by R's. He makes a remarkble different sound here...just love it. It's really a masterpiece. Could have been a single...it would chart very well, IMHO.
Overall it's a great album, but only having 8 songs on it, and most of them TOO different from their used albums, kept it from chart better. I'd surely would edit some song (BWSNH, the intro from Argentina ) and replace others MSWS if a were the producer. It would get me some time remaining on the album to put two other song with a more usual aproach...
B'wana - I really like this song, it has a nice beat, nice lyrics, K's makes a great work here very nice.
All You Get - I love this one, even better than the previous. Love the beat, the drums, K's again is great. Maybe the overdubs could be better choice than the Carpettes, especially listen what the Bee Gees were doing by the same time, still a great song that as all the other singles from this album should have charted better.
I Just Fall - This song grew on me with the time...I've learn to appreciate and love this song...so beautiful, I have to agree that the very end is the high point of the song. The Gregg Smith were greatly used. Also think it could have charted very well, if it were released by the time.
Argentina - The song is good, K's once again outshines all the other versions, but altough it brings a climax to it, I'd had take the introduction off. Most of the time I skip this tune because of it.
Sweet - Just love this one, since from the first time I've heard it...just great...amazing, should charted better also...
Man Smart - This is another skipper song. In this case, could never been recorded...it already has BWSNH to put a edge ( sound and lyrics ), they definitively didn't need this one.
Calling - Altough not a favourite, I think it's amazing. Great arrangement, excellent work from R'c. It's his song, more than K's. Fantastic, it has a edge, different lyrics than we're used to hear from them, could charted better.
My most favorite song here comes to be...Two Sides...what a great song, amazing lyrics, wonderful job by K's, she displays her fantastic range, also a masterpiece of arrangement by R's. He makes a remarkble different sound here...just love it. It's really a masterpiece. Could have been a single...it would chart very well, IMHO.
Overall it's a great album, but only having 8 songs on it, and most of them TOO different from their used albums, kept it from chart better. I'd surely would edit some song (BWSNH, the intro from Argentina ) and replace others MSWS if a were the producer. It would get me some time remaining on the album to put two other song with a more usual aproach...
Rick-An Ordinary Fool
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Ah am so steel een luv weeth yoo
CraigGA
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I feel that Passage would have done better if it was released a year earlier, instead of HUSH. Then, Two Sides could have been released before the song Torn Between Two Lovers, which song is similar, and could have been a possible single, even if Passage took another year to come into being. The devastation to the image that HUSH brought to the group would not have been there. Passage did not have much of a chance, since Occupants was the single released at the time of album release and Klatuu had just finsihed a run with it....some stations refused to play it for this reason - and with a song that had the lyrics 'a dirty old shame' as its previous single cut gave indication to the HUSH folly, and it only had 8 tunes - so Passage never had a chance, especially with the Rock FM stations that were popular at that time and who had played the Klatuu version....so little promotion outside of the usual run in Billboard Magazine was possible - and it is a shame, for it was and remains one of their strongest offerings.
BTW - Sweet, Sweet, Smile did do well on the country charts and was released before anyone knew of Juice Newton, and may have charted better on pop charts if it had not been the last single released from Passage. However, as cute a song as it is, from long running recording artists, expectations are higher.
In retrospect, with knowledge of what other recordings that were nearby, yet unreleased combined with correct timing, the run of the Carpenters on the top of the charts in the US would have had a better chance. But, good music is not always represented in the charts...besides... they sold more than most during the run during the seventies...and combined with the international sales, this good music is still available for purchase.
Their music is solid in foundation and craftfully executed in arrangement and production by Richard and skillfully launched with Karen's stunning vocals. Still today, no one's voice compares or hits my soul as Karen's.
I also enjoy Make Me Laugh...from the Dorothy Hamill Special, and would welcome it being released so I can get it too. I really enjoy all their songs and was always excited over the songs that stepped outside of the usual pop mold of the time touching all facets of music.
BTW - Sweet, Sweet, Smile did do well on the country charts and was released before anyone knew of Juice Newton, and may have charted better on pop charts if it had not been the last single released from Passage. However, as cute a song as it is, from long running recording artists, expectations are higher.
In retrospect, with knowledge of what other recordings that were nearby, yet unreleased combined with correct timing, the run of the Carpenters on the top of the charts in the US would have had a better chance. But, good music is not always represented in the charts...besides... they sold more than most during the run during the seventies...and combined with the international sales, this good music is still available for purchase.
Their music is solid in foundation and craftfully executed in arrangement and production by Richard and skillfully launched with Karen's stunning vocals. Still today, no one's voice compares or hits my soul as Karen's.
I also enjoy Make Me Laugh...from the Dorothy Hamill Special, and would welcome it being released so I can get it too. I really enjoy all their songs and was always excited over the songs that stepped outside of the usual pop mold of the time touching all facets of music.
Only Yesterday
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Jeff
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My 90 year old aunt said 'dirty ol shame'. She said, madder than a hornet, pretty is as pretty does, oh my goodness and a host of other depression era verbiage. While these terms are harmless, almost sweet, to my ear they are very dated. In 1977 lyrics like 'dirty old shame' were trying to chart against stuff like OOOOOOO Love To Love Ya Baby. Contemporary pop, disco, rock lyrics of the late '70s had a changing face. This is where K&R became permanent fixtures in the Easy Listening section of record outlets.
Jeff
Jeff
"Passage" was the first Carpenters album I couldn't get into really. There are no Carpenter/Bettis compositions on this record. I think a certain feeling is lost here starting from the material that was chosen and ending with the sound. There are some great songs, i.e. "All you get from love..." , "B'wana she no home", originally by Michael Franks or "Two sides". But "Man smart woman smarter" is horrible not to mention "Don't cry for me Argentina". These tracks show what kind of songs Karen's voice isn't made for and furthermore they don't fit the Carpenters' style at all. The recording quality is good, although it's different from the previous recordings and for that reason the album doesn't sound as intimate as I was accustomed to. I know that Richard liked especially the recordings as most of them were made live with only a few overdubs done later. But maybe one of the secrets that made Carpenters previous records so special is the creating or building of that certain sound step by step by overdubbing a lot . From this album on they never reached that special quality again to my humble opinion. 
I nearly forgot, I chose "All you get..." 
Dave
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That's what's kind'a funny 'bout albums by an artist with NO original material! Sometimes the outing can be a bit of a "grab-bag"!
In getting remakes of songs, you sometimes have to compromise. For example, in the case of The Beatles, The Carpenters covered "Ticket To Ride" and "Help". Roger Nichols did "I'll Be Back" and "With A Little Help From My Friends", which Sergio Mendes covered, as well.
Well, one of my favorite Beatles songs is "And I Love Her", which I wish The Sandpipers did in English. If I bought a remake of it, it would usually be sung by someone who would put it on an album of stuff I wouldn't like. (And at the very least, it would be sung by a FEMALE singer, as "And I Love HIM"!) I could buy an album of "Beatles Originals", but there, too, Not Everything would agree with me...
My Gabor Szabo albums have Szabo strumming out remakes of other peoples' songs, too. Yet, there are so many other numbers I think Gabor would be very capable of doing...if he were still around for me to tell him.
But original or remakes, The Carpenters did cover a lot of ground. I've never heard of "On The Balcony Of The Casa Rosada", but the remake of "Don't Cry For Me Argentina" does show a lot of class. The arrangements of it I have heard, though, do tend to be "over the top", but maybe that's a song that's too hard to make Nonchallant...
Dave
...eh, "All You Get..." is good...that's STILL "up there" in "my faves"...
In getting remakes of songs, you sometimes have to compromise. For example, in the case of The Beatles, The Carpenters covered "Ticket To Ride" and "Help". Roger Nichols did "I'll Be Back" and "With A Little Help From My Friends", which Sergio Mendes covered, as well.
Well, one of my favorite Beatles songs is "And I Love Her", which I wish The Sandpipers did in English. If I bought a remake of it, it would usually be sung by someone who would put it on an album of stuff I wouldn't like. (And at the very least, it would be sung by a FEMALE singer, as "And I Love HIM"!) I could buy an album of "Beatles Originals", but there, too, Not Everything would agree with me...
My Gabor Szabo albums have Szabo strumming out remakes of other peoples' songs, too. Yet, there are so many other numbers I think Gabor would be very capable of doing...if he were still around for me to tell him.
But original or remakes, The Carpenters did cover a lot of ground. I've never heard of "On The Balcony Of The Casa Rosada", but the remake of "Don't Cry For Me Argentina" does show a lot of class. The arrangements of it I have heard, though, do tend to be "over the top", but maybe that's a song that's too hard to make Nonchallant...
Dave
...eh, "All You Get..." is good...that's STILL "up there" in "my faves"...
Fascinating to view Passage after 27 years .....September 1977 release date brought easily Carpenters most musically diverse collection of songs to date ....and still remains the same after all these years
Recall Richard in late 1976 , expressing concerns re : Carpenters music , the lukewarm Hush album and the need to work on something unexpected for next studio album -certainly achieved that ....
Even with the more traditional Carpenters songs / tracks -Richard & Karen approached these differently ....many more with a live , jam type feel and much more open production than before ....
Fave include all three singles All You Get From Love , Calling Occupants -great arrangement & performance , country Sweet Smile ....these were all so different USA radio formats could not understand these changes ....Carpenters kept their fans & critics on their heels with this release
All the tracks are great except two mis-steps by Richard :
1. Balcony Casa Rosada ....the intro to Argentina ....was too cod -opera ...ideally Richard could have performed the male lead ....and used group members plus University choir on backing vocals ....with a lighter arrangement
2. Man Smart .....should have stuck with Harry Belafonte original song / lyrics ....and reduced the lengthy jam to a more manageable track
Certainly Richard should have stuck to his original idea and selected I Just Fall ....as a fourth single .....this would have ideal both in USA plus UK & Japan with a neat video performance supporting this great track
My favourite ....along with many others here .....was Richard's favourite...TWO SIDES ....a short beautifullly arranged pop-country song with a fab Karen vocal / interpretation ....
Two Sides was the natural single to release after Sweet Smile ....if A&M still felt I Just Fall was too long for radio .....
Two Sides plus Reason to Believe A/B single(April 1978) would have been another top 10 country and probably top 20 pop minumum in USA with video , A&M support & TV performances ....just a wonderful Carpenters song ....
Peter
Recall Richard in late 1976 , expressing concerns re : Carpenters music , the lukewarm Hush album and the need to work on something unexpected for next studio album -certainly achieved that ....
Even with the more traditional Carpenters songs / tracks -Richard & Karen approached these differently ....many more with a live , jam type feel and much more open production than before ....
Fave include all three singles All You Get From Love , Calling Occupants -great arrangement & performance , country Sweet Smile ....these were all so different USA radio formats could not understand these changes ....Carpenters kept their fans & critics on their heels with this release
All the tracks are great except two mis-steps by Richard :
1. Balcony Casa Rosada ....the intro to Argentina ....was too cod -opera ...ideally Richard could have performed the male lead ....and used group members plus University choir on backing vocals ....with a lighter arrangement
2. Man Smart .....should have stuck with Harry Belafonte original song / lyrics ....and reduced the lengthy jam to a more manageable track
Certainly Richard should have stuck to his original idea and selected I Just Fall ....as a fourth single .....this would have ideal both in USA plus UK & Japan with a neat video performance supporting this great track
My favourite ....along with many others here .....was Richard's favourite...TWO SIDES ....a short beautifullly arranged pop-country song with a fab Karen vocal / interpretation ....
Two Sides was the natural single to release after Sweet Smile ....if A&M still felt I Just Fall was too long for radio .....
Two Sides plus Reason to Believe A/B single(April 1978) would have been another top 10 country and probably top 20 pop minumum in USA with video , A&M support & TV performances ....just a wonderful Carpenters song ....
Peter
Another surprise with Passage was ...only 8 tracks ( 9 if you count Casa Rosada ...!) probably due to Argentina & Occupants lengthy running times :
Sailing On The Tide and definitely You're The One would have been great additions to PASSAGE ....and probably selected as singles in addition or in place of All You Get or Sweet Smile ....
While a surprise there were no Carpenter / Bettis compositions ....ideally Richard could have composed title track instrumental song with room to show his keyboards talents and Karen back on drums / percussion ....a jazz type track would have been great addition to Passage in 1977
Alternative would have been to re-arrange / re-record Richard original from Jazz Trio archives as they had earlier done with Flat Boroque during 1972 sessions .....
Peter
Sailing On The Tide and definitely You're The One would have been great additions to PASSAGE ....and probably selected as singles in addition or in place of All You Get or Sweet Smile ....
While a surprise there were no Carpenter / Bettis compositions ....ideally Richard could have composed title track instrumental song with room to show his keyboards talents and Karen back on drums / percussion ....a jazz type track would have been great addition to Passage in 1977
Alternative would have been to re-arrange / re-record Richard original from Jazz Trio archives as they had earlier done with Flat Boroque during 1972 sessions .....
Peter
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