Which version of "MBIYFT" do you prefer?
- Thread starter Charlie D
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GaryAlan
Well-Known Member
Interesting question Chris,
And, here is the next line from that book:
Richard Carpenter:
" You're really treading a fine line here. The last thing we wanted to appear to be was exploitative."
(page 50, A&M Records The First 25 Years).
Thus, it is of some interest to note that not only was (the re-recorded) Make Believe It's Your First Time
chosen as the lead single for Voice of The Heart, but the artwork for that 1983 album was selected from the solo sessions.
(The advertising spot on Television for Voice of The Heart says.."...ten never- before- recorded new love songs...").
And, here is the next line from that book:
Richard Carpenter:
" You're really treading a fine line here. The last thing we wanted to appear to be was exploitative."
(page 50, A&M Records The First 25 Years).
Thus, it is of some interest to note that not only was (the re-recorded) Make Believe It's Your First Time
chosen as the lead single for Voice of The Heart, but the artwork for that 1983 album was selected from the solo sessions.
(The advertising spot on Television for Voice of The Heart says.."...ten never- before- recorded new love songs...").
goodjeans
Well-Known Member
...I loved the TV Program, "Murder, She Wrote". Gary Alan, I believe you to be a Carpenters forensic pathologist. I love your posts. Thank you.
GaryAlan
Well-Known Member
So far we have:
(1) Ticket To Ride ("...in 1973, Karen re-recorded her drums and lead vocal for inclusion Singles Album..." Essential Liner Notes)
(2) Merry Christmas Darling ("..Lead vocal re-recorded at Karen's request and remixed 1978.." Essential Liner Notes)
(3) Top of The World ("...After deciding to re-record for single release and make changes from album cut.." Liner Notes Singles )
(4) Make Believe It's Your First Time ("..one of the better selections on solo project, I set out to arrange the song for the album on
which we were starting production..." Essential Collection Liner Notes ).
Thus,
Make Believe It's Your First Time
(1) Has two different arrangers: Bob James (1979) and Richard Carpenter (1980).
The other three Carpenters songs--in either incarnation--credit one arranger: Richard Carpenter
(2) Has one version on a Carpenters album, the earlier version on a solo album.
That is, if Karen had not recorded this song for her solo project , would Richard Carpenter ever have selected the song otherwise ?
(3) The song was shelved twice: Once from a solo album, withheld once from Carpenters' MIA album.
None of the other re-recorded songs were 'shelved'.
(4) Has an added bridge--requested by Richard-- in the later incarnation.
Nothing altered lyrically in the other three re-recorded tunes.
(5) Each incarnation released as single, not under Karen's aegis : 1983 and 1996.
( Vocals from 1979, a single cd in late 1996, vocals from 1980,a single- 45 in late 1983.
And, the later featured on Television Commercial to promote Voice of The Heart.)
(6) Chart listings, as singles, reflect the changing landscape of Carpenters' career.
(7) Reasons for re-recording the song are wholly different from the other Carpenters' songs that were re-recorded.
In other words, is there reason to believe Karen was discontented with her lead vocals on the solo song and 'requested' to
re-record the lead?
(Richard: "Now knowing that that project was not going to be released..").
Thus, the song--apart from the embodiment of its musical attributes, also gives one pause--
compels one to think--of the events which engulfed and unfolded in the duo's lives, if not their career.
(1) Ticket To Ride ("...in 1973, Karen re-recorded her drums and lead vocal for inclusion Singles Album..." Essential Liner Notes)
(2) Merry Christmas Darling ("..Lead vocal re-recorded at Karen's request and remixed 1978.." Essential Liner Notes)
(3) Top of The World ("...After deciding to re-record for single release and make changes from album cut.." Liner Notes Singles )
(4) Make Believe It's Your First Time ("..one of the better selections on solo project, I set out to arrange the song for the album on
which we were starting production..." Essential Collection Liner Notes ).
Thus,
Make Believe It's Your First Time
(1) Has two different arrangers: Bob James (1979) and Richard Carpenter (1980).
The other three Carpenters songs--in either incarnation--credit one arranger: Richard Carpenter
(2) Has one version on a Carpenters album, the earlier version on a solo album.
That is, if Karen had not recorded this song for her solo project , would Richard Carpenter ever have selected the song otherwise ?
(3) The song was shelved twice: Once from a solo album, withheld once from Carpenters' MIA album.
None of the other re-recorded songs were 'shelved'.
(4) Has an added bridge--requested by Richard-- in the later incarnation.
Nothing altered lyrically in the other three re-recorded tunes.
(5) Each incarnation released as single, not under Karen's aegis : 1983 and 1996.
( Vocals from 1979, a single cd in late 1996, vocals from 1980,a single- 45 in late 1983.
And, the later featured on Television Commercial to promote Voice of The Heart.)
(6) Chart listings, as singles, reflect the changing landscape of Carpenters' career.
(7) Reasons for re-recording the song are wholly different from the other Carpenters' songs that were re-recorded.
In other words, is there reason to believe Karen was discontented with her lead vocals on the solo song and 'requested' to
re-record the lead?
(Richard: "Now knowing that that project was not going to be released..").
Thus, the song--apart from the embodiment of its musical attributes, also gives one pause--
compels one to think--of the events which engulfed and unfolded in the duo's lives, if not their career.
Jerry Moss,along with Herb Alpert,was the Owner and General Manager of A&M. Every album (with it's cover artwork) passed through their hands before it received a release.
A&M had to use a pic from an older photo session for VOTH-hence,the reason they used the solo pic.
Jerry made a great choice- exquisite cover for an exquisite album.
newvillefan
I Know My First Name Is Stephen
Just reading notes on the official site now, it seems Richard would agree with me
“Make Believe It’s Your First Time” was chosen as the debut single, even though I didn’t believe there was a hit in that album.
http://richardandkarencarpenter.com/SN_MakeBelieveIt'sYourFirstTime.htm
BarryT60
Well-Known Member
ITA - you echo my thoughts exactly. When I lean toward Karen's solo version, I think it's because I know she selected it. That said, prior to my knowledge of the solo version, I felt that the Carpenters' version was absolutely brilliant and that Karen's vocals on that song are simply perfect.
Not a fan of the choir on this, and especially NOW. As for I Just Fall In Love Again, I love everything about that song and arrangement and to this day - still wish it would have been released as a single.
ullalume
Well-Known Member
Like most people here, I went with the solo version. Everything just works, and the piano work is brilliant. . .especially the fill after the first chorus. . .probs my favourite part of the song. I haven't listened to Richard's version in about a year. Maybe I'll get it out again and have a go.
Stephen, yeah it would have been interesting to hear how Karen felt about recording this song again. Though one could come up with theories that she may have felt a little insulted that he would "steal" a track from her solo outfit. . .from the person she seemed to be, I reckon both her and Richard just thought a pretty song's a pretty song. Likewise, if Richard ever did his own arrangement for Something's Missing (which he's stated in the past) I think she'd be cool with that, too. She was a pretty cool lady.
Laters
Neil (really getting into Offering after 24 years)
Stephen, yeah it would have been interesting to hear how Karen felt about recording this song again. Though one could come up with theories that she may have felt a little insulted that he would "steal" a track from her solo outfit. . .from the person she seemed to be, I reckon both her and Richard just thought a pretty song's a pretty song. Likewise, if Richard ever did his own arrangement for Something's Missing (which he's stated in the past) I think she'd be cool with that, too. She was a pretty cool lady.
Laters
Neil (really getting into Offering after 24 years)
More likely she felt honored that Richard liked one of her choices. And, from Richard's point of view, he might have chosen it to give his sister a little confidence boost. - ALL, considering that both of them liked the song.
Harry
ullalume
Well-Known Member
True, and from checking out the chronology of the MIA tracks on the Essential Collection, I see that Make Believe was one of the very first songs recorded in June of '80. Considering the solo had only officially been shelved a few weeks earlier, maybe it was Richard giving her that "little confidence boost".
Either that or she strongly "suggested" they track the piece after her disillusionment over the solo album. Probably a little from column A and a little from column B.
Neil
I feel the same way, the choir doesn't really bother me at all. I can see why others are bothered by it but I love Richard's version of the song more than the solo version. Karen's breathing/phrasing is better and it's much richer sounding than the first version. Also the arrangement is so warm and lovely.
wideawakeat4am
Well-Known Member
Whilst I like the bridge in Richard's version, I much prefer the simpler track on Karen's album. I can just picture her singing that in a club somewhere at about 2am as she closes the set of her solo performance.
To me, it shows that all Karen really needed was her voice and in many ways probably didn't really need Richard. I think that scared her a lot and it certainly scared Richard.
To me, it shows that all Karen really needed was her voice and in many ways probably didn't really need Richard. I think that scared her a lot and it certainly scared Richard.
WYBIMLA
Well-Known Member
This is a a tough question. They both have their own strengths.
They're both sung well, so it's hard to say. They're just different takes.
When I saw this thread first I had to ask myself "how much do I like this song to really comment?"
There's been points where I've loved the song, and it's hook which is the title.
Right now I don't listen to it as much.
I've always adored that part where she goes "And if we fall in love well that's alright"
She laughs a bit at the idea that her lover would have a problem with that.
I can imagine a guy saying "But, what if we fall in love?" in a worried voice.
Or maybe it's her that had that thought.
It's kind of silly, and it would be interesting to see it with a visual applied.
For the most part I like the song. I don't know if anyone truly can capture "the first time" of anything, but believing you can is charming.
Perhaps a waste of time. Lol
The solo version...
It's more intimate. I love the quote somewhere about "who invited the choir into the bedroom?" thank goodness this one doesn't have that. Perhaps this take is more mature in ways.. it's not "trying to get in a serious mood here" it just already is in a serious mood... but interestingly enough...
The Richard involved one...
Gives more audible depth to Karen's voice. Obviously, the man knew the capabilities of his sisters voice. This one leaves more of an impression of Karen's lower register for me. Also, I think somehow she sang it more smoothly than her solo album and there's less of a "breathy" quality to it. Yes, it has the added bridge and backing vocal touch. To a point of fault because it's arguably over done.
Was there an alteration of the phrase "around again enough" to "around the game enough"? Or did she always sing it as "the game"?
Honestly, I don't know which way is better or worse or if anyone cares that much. Lol
In closing, I couldn't imagine being in Karen's shoes then and having to sing something once more than you already did.
It's different than when she had re-done "Ticket to ride" or "Top of the world" for example. I can hear the improvements in those and why she might have thought "I can do better". This time is interesting because from what I understand she was already satisfied with the solo album version. It wasn't like a demo. She still does it well anyhow, and if not better. Once again goes to show her level of professionalism and simply how amazing she was.
Somehow during a love song there's still the "chill" factor. When she holds the last "and I'll make believe it's miiiiine". It's hauntingly beautiful. I don't know if it was written to be that way, but that's just the uniqueness that is Karen. Love her!
They're both sung well, so it's hard to say. They're just different takes.
When I saw this thread first I had to ask myself "how much do I like this song to really comment?"
There's been points where I've loved the song, and it's hook which is the title.
Right now I don't listen to it as much.
I've always adored that part where she goes "And if we fall in love well that's alright"
She laughs a bit at the idea that her lover would have a problem with that.
I can imagine a guy saying "But, what if we fall in love?" in a worried voice.
Or maybe it's her that had that thought.
It's kind of silly, and it would be interesting to see it with a visual applied.
For the most part I like the song. I don't know if anyone truly can capture "the first time" of anything, but believing you can is charming.
Perhaps a waste of time. Lol
The solo version...
It's more intimate. I love the quote somewhere about "who invited the choir into the bedroom?" thank goodness this one doesn't have that. Perhaps this take is more mature in ways.. it's not "trying to get in a serious mood here" it just already is in a serious mood... but interestingly enough...
The Richard involved one...
Gives more audible depth to Karen's voice. Obviously, the man knew the capabilities of his sisters voice. This one leaves more of an impression of Karen's lower register for me. Also, I think somehow she sang it more smoothly than her solo album and there's less of a "breathy" quality to it. Yes, it has the added bridge and backing vocal touch. To a point of fault because it's arguably over done.
Was there an alteration of the phrase "around again enough" to "around the game enough"? Or did she always sing it as "the game"?
Honestly, I don't know which way is better or worse or if anyone cares that much. Lol
In closing, I couldn't imagine being in Karen's shoes then and having to sing something once more than you already did.
It's different than when she had re-done "Ticket to ride" or "Top of the world" for example. I can hear the improvements in those and why she might have thought "I can do better". This time is interesting because from what I understand she was already satisfied with the solo album version. It wasn't like a demo. She still does it well anyhow, and if not better. Once again goes to show her level of professionalism and simply how amazing she was.
Somehow during a love song there's still the "chill" factor. When she holds the last "and I'll make believe it's miiiiine". It's hauntingly beautiful. I don't know if it was written to be that way, but that's just the uniqueness that is Karen. Love her!
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