For Richard, may I say respectfully that it has always been about the money. Remember, the Carpenters were more than just a brother-sister duo that made music, they were a business - PERIOD.
Barry talking about Karen
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For Richard, may I say respectfully that it has always been about the money. Remember, the Carpenters were more than just a brother-sister duo that made music, they were a business - PERIOD.
WYBIMLA
Well-Known Member
VERY well said! And I like the Bettis reference as well - and he's absolutely right! If A&M thought they had a hit, at the end of the day, it's about the MONEY - not what Richard thinks, or Phil thinks, or really even what Karen thought. The label would have certainly pushed for its release if there were a bundle of hits. That has been my point all along, but seems like every time the subject arises, it becomes a "taking of sides" so to speak.
Anyway, kudos on the post
Well, thanks, Chris! Sorry for the long rantings. It's just a flow of consciousness really. Anything and anything that comes to mind Carpenters related. Lol
Hope you guys don't mind. This here is probably the nicest forum I've ever been on in my life.
It does become taking sides. I've seen that on Facebook all too well. Probably even on youtube comments as well. It doesn't HAVE to, but it does go there. The solo album should be appreciated for what it was, but at a certain point I'd suggest we stop there. Same could go for Richard's. Those last years of Karen's life there gets everyone a in a tizzy. I can see why...
I've seen it with MJ fans... they get all torn and fight with each other... when all along the artist speaks about L.O.V.E. It's a bit ironic that way.
Can't the same be said for Carpenters? It doesn't have to divide everybody. I respect your opinions, but gee Louis...
Remember what they were about. It's simply a love song... Making people happy... I'd throw in decency, class, and some fun too.
Doesn't have to be an aggressive argument.
GaryAlan
Well-Known Member
It is all about the money, "period". ( I get it.)
Therefore, basing our opinions of this or that album, on each album's respective
artistic or creative value is meaningless in this context.
Thus, if the cover stinks, who cares--it sold (4) Millions of copies !( i.e., LP Close To You).
More money implies--in this scenario-- a great album; by fiat an album is rotten if a poor seller.
Exactly what do those words mean if applied to : Each of the Solo albums (KC, Time, PCAC)
Scott Grimes, Akiko, Veronique, Where I Want To Be,......
Is the best work of the duo encapsulated by the singles and albums which brought in the most money?
(If so, then why bother with anything except sales and chart figures?).
I refuse to be content with that scenario; as, I find much of 'value' in each musical endeavor associated with
Richard Carpenter's name--regardless of the monetary enumeration.
Sadly, my naivete always wanted to believe it was all about the music.
Therefore, basing our opinions of this or that album, on each album's respective
artistic or creative value is meaningless in this context.
Thus, if the cover stinks, who cares--it sold (4) Millions of copies !( i.e., LP Close To You).
More money implies--in this scenario-- a great album; by fiat an album is rotten if a poor seller.
Exactly what do those words mean if applied to : Each of the Solo albums (KC, Time, PCAC)
Scott Grimes, Akiko, Veronique, Where I Want To Be,......
Is the best work of the duo encapsulated by the singles and albums which brought in the most money?
(If so, then why bother with anything except sales and chart figures?).
I refuse to be content with that scenario; as, I find much of 'value' in each musical endeavor associated with
Richard Carpenter's name--regardless of the monetary enumeration.
Sadly, my naivete always wanted to believe it was all about the music.
And I believe it IS. Remember, just because a "B" side on an album never goes "singles" status, doesn't mean it isn't YOUR or MY favorite song ever covered or written by any given artist. But for the record label, it isn't about that. For them it *is* about the "A" side.
WYBIMLA
Well-Known Member
I wrestle with that one too, Gary.
Heck... all artists wrestle with it too.
It's business vs. the creative process.
Wouldn't it be nice for the artist to just think about what they love... only the music...
For the most part they do, but can't do that solely...
Most artists tend to not want or care or think that much about the business side.
That has to do with numbers and things not associated with an artsy brain.
The thing is... success has to do with both in that area.
We know it as the Music Industry. "Art and commerce".
Certainly, in this day and age, the business part is kind of in a fight for it's life.
It's still a needed market, but the business has changed so much. I don't even know what the glue is that holds it all together these days.
Album sales are distorted with free downloads/listens and piracy... all that stuff.
I don't know how it all factors in. I'm not even sure how "stars" are still made exactly.
Somehow digital albums work for artists, and the touring and merch.
Some of the "old media" still works too. It's definitely weird times now.
Heck... all artists wrestle with it too.
It's business vs. the creative process.
Wouldn't it be nice for the artist to just think about what they love... only the music...
For the most part they do, but can't do that solely...
Most artists tend to not want or care or think that much about the business side.
That has to do with numbers and things not associated with an artsy brain.
The thing is... success has to do with both in that area.
We know it as the Music Industry. "Art and commerce".
Certainly, in this day and age, the business part is kind of in a fight for it's life.
It's still a needed market, but the business has changed so much. I don't even know what the glue is that holds it all together these days.
Album sales are distorted with free downloads/listens and piracy... all that stuff.
I don't know how it all factors in. I'm not even sure how "stars" are still made exactly.
Somehow digital albums work for artists, and the touring and merch.
Some of the "old media" still works too. It's definitely weird times now.
And THIS I believe is a major factor in why Richard is no longer interested in the music business. There is no more music "business" as it was for so many decades. Just listen to the last 10 minutes or so of our interview together. That's specifically why I asked him the questions I did - so fans could hear it straight from the horse's mouth so-to-speak about his disgust and feeling of "what's the point?" If you missed it, listen again.
WYBIMLA
Well-Known Member
"What am I gonna do?" I recall him saying. I could feel for him in that moment, and the potential attempt at making the calculation of losses... "I don't even want to think of it"...
Neither would I...
For any artist... for some of them you get peanuts for this kind of work now by the look of it
I agree with him... you kinda have to listen closely to catch it in the interview.
It's there.
Once people began this underground operation of getting projects out before artists even finished them...
I mean, what do you have?
We're all guilty. I mean, yea I've just looked up a song on youtube not thinking about the artist...
It's just different how we look at music currently.
Because of this you got artists being forced to push forward their release dates, and the time it takes to make an album is crunched.
I've heard some artists don't even record in studios as much anymore. It's in hotel rooms... trying to find other ways of doing it without having that chance of a leak.
I don't understand leaks all that well. I suppose you got to have a trusted group of people working for you... or try to secure yourself as best you can.
But, hackers find a way.
An artist can form a relationship with their fans in a live setting... that's the value of it... it's not necessarily the album anymore... not necessarily the song... it's just a simple connection... being an 'out there' member of your community basically...
And giving back in some way...
I think that's where the value has gone, but you can't put a price on that.
Carpenters haven't been in a live setting for... well quite some time now Lol ... and we know Karen was more interested in the fan groups...
When you put it into perspective... the Taylor Swifts of the world today are "lucky". I don't know how it's done.
No one's ever had an answer to that.
How you get 'voted' by the public to be lifted to star status...
By now, you already have to have a following before you even get a chance at anything remotely resembling success.
Part of it must be that you also got to be really smart these days to manoeuvre through. Not to say you didn't before, but certainly by now.
...or some may argue maybe not... I have no idea... maybe some of these celebrities are 'chosen' in a way...
There's so many ways you can look at this...
As for deceased icons living on with sales... it seems improbable... it happens, but I don't know how it works. Also, that's what makes it incredible.
You'd think without merch... without touring... with the "old" way of doing it... how does an estate stay afloat?
It's just us (the fans) hanging on.
Some of us yearning for the way things once were.
I'm still in my early 20s. I think I was born in the wrong time. Lol I wish the industry could have held out a bit longer as it were, but the internet kinda killed it and big corps also ruined it...
And video killed the radio star... and all of it it... hahaha
Neither would I...
For any artist... for some of them you get peanuts for this kind of work now by the look of it
I agree with him... you kinda have to listen closely to catch it in the interview.
It's there.
Once people began this underground operation of getting projects out before artists even finished them...
I mean, what do you have?
We're all guilty. I mean, yea I've just looked up a song on youtube not thinking about the artist...
It's just different how we look at music currently.
Because of this you got artists being forced to push forward their release dates, and the time it takes to make an album is crunched.
I've heard some artists don't even record in studios as much anymore. It's in hotel rooms... trying to find other ways of doing it without having that chance of a leak.
I don't understand leaks all that well. I suppose you got to have a trusted group of people working for you... or try to secure yourself as best you can.
But, hackers find a way.
An artist can form a relationship with their fans in a live setting... that's the value of it... it's not necessarily the album anymore... not necessarily the song... it's just a simple connection... being an 'out there' member of your community basically...
And giving back in some way...
I think that's where the value has gone, but you can't put a price on that.
Carpenters haven't been in a live setting for... well quite some time now Lol ... and we know Karen was more interested in the fan groups...
When you put it into perspective... the Taylor Swifts of the world today are "lucky". I don't know how it's done.
No one's ever had an answer to that.
How you get 'voted' by the public to be lifted to star status...
By now, you already have to have a following before you even get a chance at anything remotely resembling success.
Part of it must be that you also got to be really smart these days to manoeuvre through. Not to say you didn't before, but certainly by now.
...or some may argue maybe not... I have no idea... maybe some of these celebrities are 'chosen' in a way...
There's so many ways you can look at this...
As for deceased icons living on with sales... it seems improbable... it happens, but I don't know how it works. Also, that's what makes it incredible.
You'd think without merch... without touring... with the "old" way of doing it... how does an estate stay afloat?
It's just us (the fans) hanging on.
Some of us yearning for the way things once were.
I'm still in my early 20s. I think I was born in the wrong time. Lol I wish the industry could have held out a bit longer as it were, but the internet kinda killed it and big corps also ruined it...
And video killed the radio star... and all of it it... hahaha
GaryAlan
Well-Known Member
Interesting to note (this, in Little Girl Blue, page 204),
Something's Missing was debuted as a duet,writers Jay Asher and Paul Jabara;
recorded by Jabara as a duet with Donna Summer, on his album Keeping Time, 1978.
(The song was also a minor hit in Australia and New Zealand by Marcia Hines, 1979).
Barry Manilow probably would be unable to (license) utilize Karen's version, though.
Something's Missing was debuted as a duet,writers Jay Asher and Paul Jabara;
recorded by Jabara as a duet with Donna Summer, on his album Keeping Time, 1978.
(The song was also a minor hit in Australia and New Zealand by Marcia Hines, 1979).
Barry Manilow probably would be unable to (license) utilize Karen's version, though.
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