Barry talking about Karen

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Personally I'm grateful that Richard acts as caretaker of the Carpenters legacy, just as I am about Herb Alpert having control of his own stuff (and Lani Hall's). By not having their stuff out there on everyone's compilation sort of makes them special when they DO appear somewhere - and usually in a worthwhile manner.

As for duets with dead people, it's an interesting technological feat, but mostly it doesn't interest me. The original Nat and Natalie duet was kind of neat, but I've paid scant attention to all of the Sinatra duets - with one exception. Somehow, I really like the Cyndi Lauper/Frank Sinatra version of "Santa Claus Is Comin' To Town", which shows up on my yearly Christmas comp.

Harry
 
To be fair to Richard Carpenter, he's protecting a musical legacy, which becomes more precious as the years pass by.
 
Agreed, as caretaker of Carpenters' Legacy, Richard Carpenter has been phenomenal.
Once again, I am not denouncing his pivotal role in Carpenters' career, as a half of a duo,
unsurpassed in the history of pop music.
I'd hardly consider Burt Bacharach as part of "everyone's compilation ", as it was his song
that gave Carpenters their breakthrough hit.
And, at that, Richard Carpenter had to be cajoled into recording the song.
Is he protecting "a legacy" or "an image"?
After all, in the recent Perry Como commentary he stated: "Image is everything."
Or, is that legacy of phenomenal music inseparable from the Carpenters' image?
An image--well-documented-- that both Richard and Karen tried to get away from.
I rather think any Carpenters' song is special--regardless of where that song is displayed--be it
original recordings, remixed songs, compilations, dvd, big or small screen movies, television shows, etc.
Recall, his later regret in his involvement of The Karen Carpenter Story--as televised in 1989---
his regrets have nothing to do with the use of Carpenters' music--that music is the legacy.
And, yet, how many lives have been saved because of the increased public awareness and
increased research funding for Anorexia ---spurred anew through that one movie.
 
If I were to judge Carpenters on their image alone, I would have been a lot less impressed by their music. If their legacy is judged on their music, this is where judgement should be more favourable. Unfortunately the image and music are intertwined, which always gives a helping hand to their detractors. First and foremost Richard and Karen were musicians, no one can take that away from them, that image is worth protecting at all costs.
 
GaryAlan said:
I'd hardly consider Burt Bacharach as part of "everyone's compilation ",
Click to expand...

I have quite a few Bacharach compilations that include Karen & Richard's "(They Long To Be) Close To You," and at least one with "Baby It's You."

My reference was to those cheap-o compilations that have ten tracks, with two of them recognizable and the rest a bunch of stiffs. I'm happy not to see any Carpenters or Herb Alpert tracks on those.

Harry
 
Excellent commentary, I am enjoying the variety, as always!
Harry, I actually do applaud Richard Carpenter's stance regarding other artists' compilations; his scrutiny thereof.
(For instance, a compilation of ,say, 1970's love songs from "K-Tel Records" would certainly diminish
Carpenters' musical legacy. I only noted, and I do not know the precise reasoning, that one of the more
recent Bacharach Box Sets --for which their was a press release--detailed that their was difficulty getting
authorization from Richard Carpenter for the use of their performance of "Close To You"--which, (and minimally counting)
The Singles Album 1969-1973 (7m) and the Close To You Album (3m) with the 45-single (1m) has sold more than 11 million units.
My query: Why would there be any hesitation for authorization on a Bacharach Set?
(No one will ever know, likely, this is purely a business scenario,purely a business decision.)
Chris, I agree, no one can ever doubt the musicianship, the musical talent, of Karen and Richard Carpenter.
Quite frankly, I've been a lifelong fan and never gave any thought to their image--it is irrelevant to the music.
I still believe it to be irrelevant to the music.
Be that as it may, Richard Carpenter does say: "image is everything" (Como DVD 2013)---however,
that is not how he perceived it in the 1970's, as he and Karen fought against "the image".
Again, the legacy is the music.
And, "The image" has assumed a 'life' of its own: wholly independent of Karen and Richard Carpenter as Human Beings.
 
Here's Karen Carpenter, 1978 interview (Schmidt Reader, page 225):
Q: Is your image hurting you as far as Top 40?
Karen: " I couldn't answer that. I'm getting sick and tired of this image thing.
What's the matter with a brother and sisterteam who happen to be the first ones who just record and enjoy life? ".

Here's Richard Carpenter, 1978 (Schmidt Reader,page 218):
" It's nice to be able to pick your own stuff, have total control. The thing is, you're responsible for it if it hits or flops."
 
I'm with Yoko Ono:

https://www.google.com.br/?gws_rd=ssl#q="yoko+ono"+"john+lennon"+"forget+about+him"

http://www.instantkarma.com/yointerviewjody00.html

Q: Sometimes it seems like you're between a rock and a hard place because if you don't share all this work, people say you're hoarding it. And then there're people who say you merchandise John too aggressively. How do you feel about that?

A: Well, I don't think I'm merchandising John aggressively at all. And if John's stuff is not out there, people forget about him. It's as simple as that.
Click to expand...

People forget.
 
Harry said:
Personally I'm grateful that Richard acts as caretaker of the Carpenters legacy, just as I am about Herb Alpert having control of his own stuff (and Lani Hall's). By not having their stuff out there on everyone's compilation sort of makes them special when they DO appear somewhere - and usually in a worthwhile manner.

As for duets with dead people, it's an interesting technological feat, but mostly it doesn't interest me. The original Nat and Natalie duet was kind of neat, but I've paid scant attention to all of the Sinatra duets - with one exception. Somehow, I really like the Cyndi Lauper/Frank Sinatra version of "Santa Claus Is Comin' To Town", which shows up on my yearly Christmas comp.

Harry
Click to expand...


Funny you should mention this. I also do like the pairings of the Coles and I do enjoy listening to Lauper/Sinatra "Santa Claus Is Coming To Town".

But you know what would really be interesting? If they could take the voice and filter out everything else from an old vintage recording like Barry is saying, it would be fascinating to revived or in other words, add new life to these vintage performances. In other words, take the early recordings of Bing Crosby, Frank Sinatra, Billie Holiday, Fred Astaire or any of the famous singers from the late 1920s to the early 1950s (you get the idea), lift and enhance the vocals and then re record the musical accompaniments with the same exact arrangements as the original recording, but this time in full Hi-Fi stereo fidelity.

I can just imagine how these recording would have sounded if people back then had the recording technology that we have now?


Danny
 
The downside to being overly protective of one's own legacy is the fact that many Carpenters songs get no airplay at all on oldies or AC stations due to 'testing services', blah blah. That fact alone gives the average 20-something less chance to hear them and discover them on Time-Life compilations, etc. That in itself is counter-productive.
 
GaryAlan said:
Here's Karen Carpenter, 1978 interview (Schmidt Reader, page 225):
Q: Is your image hurting you as far as Top 40?
Karen: " I couldn't answer that. I'm getting sick and tired of this image thing.
What's the matter with a brother and sister team who happen to be the first ones who just record and enjoy life? ".
Click to expand...

I've never read that quote, thanks for posting. You can sense Karen's exasperation in the words, the goody four shoes image must have gotten old for them by 1978, when Richard was already in his thirties and Karen approaching the same decade.
 
Just had a thought - tell me if this makes sense to any of you.....with the passage of time, I think the whole issue of their 'image' will become more and more meaningless. All those TV appearances, specials, interviews, etc. are from 30-40 years ago, and even though it's all available on the net, I think its effect on the perception of their music will continue to fade.

Burt Bacharach is still getting attention today largely for three reasons - 1) he's continued to work (the album with Elvis Costello, touring, new music), 2) exposure for the old catalog of songs and recordings, and 3) younger acts declaring him as a influence (Oasis a few years ago, for one example). His image from the past - hip cool songwriting swinger - helped him get the exposure in, say, the Austin Powers movies, but the music keeps his name out there, IMHO. And hopefully, since we sadly will never have new music, the old Carpenters catalog will continue to acquire a new cachet as years go by....
 
A&Mguyfromwayback said:
Just had a thought - tell me if this makes sense to any of you.....with the passage of time, I think the whole issue of their 'image' will become more and more meaningless. All those TV appearances, specials, interviews, etc. are from 30-40 years ago, and even though it's all available on the net, I think its effect on the perception of their music will continue to fade.

Burt Bacharach is still getting attention today largely for three reasons - 1) he's continued to work (the album with Elvis Costello, touring, new music), 2) exposure for the old catalog of songs and recordings, and 3) younger acts declaring him as a influence (Oasis a few years ago, for one example). His image from the past - hip cool songwriting swinger - helped him get the exposure in, say, the Austin Powers movies, but the music keeps his name out there, IMHO. And hopefully, since we sadly will never have new music, the old Carpenters catalog will continue to acquire a new cachet as years go by....
Click to expand...

The problem for the Carpenters is precisely because Karen is no longer around any more. There is no updated image, no modern Karen or Carpenters of today to perhaps look back at their own past with a self-deprecating laugh, the way other artists can do these days in documentaries and the like. All we're left with is an exasperated Richard bemoaning the fact they looked awful and were marketed terribly and frustrated he can't remix their image the way he has with their music. The indelible image of the Carpenters is the one of the early 1970s, with their basin haircuts and Karen's awful clothes, both on and off stage. Because their most consistent hit-making streak was between 1970 and 1973 (during which 95% of their biggest singles were released), that's what most of the promo videos reflect and what the public at large remembers is the the cheeseball image of that early period. I have friends now, in 2014, who admire the music but still mock their dress sense and image and comment how out of fashion they looked. For some reason, the image does still dog them all these years later.
 
newvillefan said:
I have friends now, in 2014, who admire the music but still mock their dress sense and image and comment how out of fashion they looked. For some reason, the image does still dog them all these years later.
Click to expand...

It's weird because the image thing has never bothered me. I fell in love with the music way before the internet was the rage and were all dodged with photos of them from those yearly days, all I had was the album covers but they didn't bother me, it was the music that I fell in love with and more importantly Karen's vocals...how could this sound be coming from my LP's and sound this good to my ears...pleasing, warming, inviting...like returning to an old friend with every play of those LP's. The media did blast them on looks but to me it was about the music and still is....that's why even when Karen got to her lowest point with this illness, I still looked past it because it was her voice that was still there and what I craved and needed to hear to make it through the day or week.
 
newvillefan said:
The problem for the Carpenters is precisely because Karen is no longer around any more. There is no updated image, no modern Karen or Carpenters of today to perhaps look back at their own past with a self-deprecating laugh, the way other artists can do these days in documentaries and the like. All we're left with is an exasperated Richard bemoaning the fact they looked awful and were marketed terribly and frustrated he can't remix their image the way he has with their music. The indelible image of the Carpenters is the one of the early 1970s, with their basin haircuts and Karen's awful clothes, both on and off stage. Because their most consistent hit-making streak was between 1970 and 1973 (during which 95% of their biggest singles were released), that's what most of the promo videos reflect and what the public at large remembers is the the cheeseball image of that early period. I have friends now, in 2014, who admire the music but still mock their dress sense and image and comment how out of fashion they looked. For some reason, the image does still dog them all these years later.
Click to expand...

But now with the Internet would be the perfect time for Richard to remix that "image" into something he always wished it could be. EVERYTHING is online now, and artist "images" are based on web presence, in lieu of personal appearances, which is why it's so frustrating to me (as a webmaster and Carpenters fan) that http://www.richardandkarencarpenter.com
is as, well, lame as it is. When it came out over a decade ago, people on this very board believed it wasn't even real, or that maybe Richard's kids did it, it was so unprofessional-looking. But no. It was someone he hired, probably unwisely. He certainly has the money to hire a decent webmaster, and as concerned about the Carpenters' legacy (and image) as he is, I don't know why he doesn't just do it. It would leave a MUCH better impression on people.

There are enough "cool" pictures of the Carpenters (like this one) that could be used on a website (or poster) instead of the cutesy flowers-and-bowl-cuts that A&M used at the time. Think about it- a really classy, professional Carpenters website, perhaps in a black and gold color scheme, that portrayed Richard and Karen as they always wanted to be portrayed- as professional musicians that made excellent pop music, that just happened to be brother and sister. There could be links to buy the music (Richard's missing out on $ here!), Carpenters swag, etc. It's not hard, and Richard wouldn't have to do anything himself but give the OK to a webmaster.

Someone is finally updating the Carpenters' Facebook page, albeit infrequently. Judging by the links, it's probably someone at Universal. But that's the closest "official" Carpenters stuff we've had in a decade.

Sigh.
 
Is it only me then that can hear Barry Manilow and Karen Carpenter getting down with it to My Body Keeps Changing My Mind?! It's the obvious choice (from the solo album).
 
For image purposes, I wish the only two photos of them that even existed were the covers of Horizon and As Time Goes By (OK, add a third with them smiling)......
 
I think the perfict duet would be "Trying to get the feeling'". It's not layed with Carpenters production. And we know Barry can sing it.

Previous posters have commented on the lack of material and merhandise Richard has allowed. In the last decade, he has done very little to keep the Carpenters name out there. It's sad, becuase each new generation has no idea about the Carpenters.
 
JAZZ4JEFF said:
Previous posters have commented on the lack of material and merhandise Richard has allowed. In the last decade, he has done very little to keep the Carpenters name out there. It's sad, becuase each new generation has no idea about the Carpenters.
Click to expand...

At intervals after Karen's passing, there were several resurgent waves of interest in them internationally and it's sad this hasn't happened for some time. I remember it seemed to happen almost at five year intervals, regular as clockwork. The biggies as far as promotion to the general public were:

1985 - Yesterday Once More (with the huge TV ad campaign that went with it)
1990 - Only Yesterday (chart topper for several weeks in the UK, spawning the 'Close To You'/'Only Yesterday' double A-side single re-release)
1994/5 - Interpretations (featuring two TV adverts to promote the collection in the UK and producing a #44 charting single) and Twenty Two Hits (spawning several 3" CD single releases in Japan)
2000 - Gold (UK)
2004 - Gold 35th Anniversary Edition (heavily promoted on TV and reaching #4 in the UK)

Obviously, there have been dozens of other compilations released in between these, but these are the ones I think that have permeated the masses in terms of large scale, proper promotion. I can't think of another one since.
 
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Wasn't Richard on QVC hawking the 40/40 compilation in 2009?

Harry
 
Harry said:
Wasn't Richard on QVC hawking the 40/40 compilation in 2009?
Click to expand...

Correct he was. If I remember right, 40/40 reached the top 10 in Japan but his appearance on QVC didn't set the US market alight for this compilation.
 
JAZZ4JEFF said:
I think the perfict duet would be "Trying to get the feeling'". It's not layed with Carpenters production. And we know Barry can sing it.
Click to expand...
This got me thinking.

The two big Barry Manilow hits that were also performed by the Carpenters were "Can't Smile Without You" and "Trying to Get the Feeling Again." As it turns out, if I'm not mistaken, both of those were recorded by the Carpenters before Barry, yeah? Have the Carpenters and Barry shared any other songs together? One that Barry did first perhaps?
 
kprather said:
Have the Carpenters and Barry shared any other songs together? One that Barry did first perhaps?
Click to expand...

Yep, there was one more, 'Where Do I Go From Here', recorded by Barry (without the instrumental break or key change) the same year as Karen and Richard recorded their version. Obviously, theirs didn't reach our ears until The Karen Carpenter Story.

 
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