Heck yes!
I've decided to give Richard a break.
- Thread starter arthowson
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I've always thought 'You're The One' or a stripped down version of 'Ordinary Fool' (without the strings) would be perfect for a feature film.
GaryAlan
Well-Known Member
Thanks, A&M Retro, point is well taken.
(I was age 10 when I had any inkling of which artist sang which song--at least, when it came to Carpenters).
But, Carpenters' music popularity was quite low at the time, unfortunately.
(My mind keeps searching for that fantasy 'turn-around' in popularity, and what could have nurtured it.).
(I was age 10 when I had any inkling of which artist sang which song--at least, when it came to Carpenters).
But, Carpenters' music popularity was quite low at the time, unfortunately.
(My mind keeps searching for that fantasy 'turn-around' in popularity, and what could have nurtured it.).
newvillefan
I Know My First Name Is Stephen
Let's not forget he told Karen her album was sh*t. And yet, in Randy's book one of Karen's closest friends said (words to the effect) that he has to live with all of this and it doesn't even faze him.
song4u
Well-Known Member
Oooooohhhhh. I often think how I wish Karen had had more time to maybe go into some jazz standards a la Diana Krall. She seemed to be able to sing jazz effortlessly.
Rick-An Ordinary Fool
Well-Known Member
and it's the parents that would have known this was Karen and yet we have no info about this event, no photos taken from the parents....it just seems a bit odd to me.
aaflyer98
Well-Known Member
Unforgivable.
We don't know though whether there was any advance announcement that she was going to appear at the school though. The lack of documentation of this last singing appearance doesn't surprise me at all - this was a pre-internet and mobile phone camera age in which you'd have had to have made plans if you wanted to capture anything of it and also a time in which people were less concerned with 'recording' an event than they are now.
It's possible - although very unlikely I'd say - that someone did take her photo that day, but that doesn't mean it's ever going to emerge in the public domain. This wasn't a celebrity/promo appearance, it was just her turning up at the school where the kids of a friend attended.
song4u
Well-Known Member
I just thought it was sweet that she loved kids and wanted to sing for them. I didn't think she was hoping for recognition.
Rick-An Ordinary Fool
Well-Known Member
When she sang at the Buckley School, I wonder if she sang acapella or did she sing with a backup tape or someone at piano? To think this was the last time she would ever sing in front of a crowd of people. I bet it was beautiful with lots of emotion, she loved Christmas and kids so she was right at home.
newvillefan
I Know My First Name Is Stephen
I'm sure I read somewhere she sang over the top of some selections they played from the Christmas Portrait LP.
I've got pictures taken at a school assembly taken by my Mom in 1973 when I was in 4th grade choir. That being said, I'm sure there were a number of pictures taken that day. The event was planned in advance. No doubt Frenda took some. I'm sure many Moms/teachers took some. It wasn't every day that Karen Carpenter came to school to perform. She did sing along with the 'Christmas Portrait' album. My guess is she was at least using a microphone.
I understand Frenda didn't have time to dig through her albums before Randy's book went to the publisher.
Too bad. I'll bet she's got some great ones other than the commonly seen shots of K.C. with her kids. Little did anyone know that Karen would be gone just 7 weeks later.
I understand Frenda didn't have time to dig through her albums before Randy's book went to the publisher.
Too bad. I'll bet she's got some great ones other than the commonly seen shots of K.C. with her kids. Little did anyone know that Karen would be gone just 7 weeks later.
Rick-An Ordinary Fool
Well-Known Member
I was trying to find the thread when we all talked about Karen's last musical performance at the Buckley School in Dec 1982. Some of the threads are old and no longer can post but I found this recent one so I will post to this one.
Today I was googling and I came across this magazine called R&R Radio and Records The Industry's Weekly Newspaper printed Dec 12, 1986, I will post the pdf link when it loads (which took almost 2 minutes for me) you will need to scroll to page 52 titled Datebook, about in the middle of that page right above the photos in the middle you will see a heading that is titled Wednesday Dec 17 Here it discuss what happen on that day Dec 17 and if you look at the year 1982 it says this:
1982: The Who play their last show in Toronto. On the same day. Karen Carpenter's last performance is singing Christmas carols at the private schol her godchildren atend. Her friends try to talk her out of it because of her health but she persists.
http://www.americanradiohistory.com/Archive-RandR/1980s/1986/RR-1986-12-12.pdf
credit to: American Radio History Archives
http://www.americanradiohistory.com/RandR-Magazine-Page-Range-Guide.htm
So this is new information to me and I am really surprised that something like that event made news since little has been spoke of this event. So now it is confirmed this event was held on Wednesday Dec 17, 1982 and Karen's friends tried to talk her out of going? first I've heard of that.
Today I was googling and I came across this magazine called R&R Radio and Records The Industry's Weekly Newspaper printed Dec 12, 1986, I will post the pdf link when it loads (which took almost 2 minutes for me) you will need to scroll to page 52 titled Datebook, about in the middle of that page right above the photos in the middle you will see a heading that is titled Wednesday Dec 17 Here it discuss what happen on that day Dec 17 and if you look at the year 1982 it says this:
1982: The Who play their last show in Toronto. On the same day. Karen Carpenter's last performance is singing Christmas carols at the private schol her godchildren atend. Her friends try to talk her out of it because of her health but she persists.
http://www.americanradiohistory.com/Archive-RandR/1980s/1986/RR-1986-12-12.pdf
credit to: American Radio History Archives
http://www.americanradiohistory.com/RandR-Magazine-Page-Range-Guide.htm
So this is new information to me and I am really surprised that something like that event made news since little has been spoke of this event. So now it is confirmed this event was held on Wednesday Dec 17, 1982 and Karen's friends tried to talk her out of going? first I've heard of that.
Rick-An Ordinary Fool
Well-Known Member
I just realized this is all in Little Girl Blue page 270 including what Karen was wearing at the Buckley School and it was Ed Leffler that was worried about her health after her recent hospital stay in NY and he was the one who tried to talk her out of singing at the school.
Sorry about that, so much in Little Girl Blue I forgot it was posted there excuse my ramblings.
Sorry about that, so much in Little Girl Blue I forgot it was posted there excuse my ramblings.
newvillefan
I Know My First Name Is Stephen
Wow, nice find Chris! First I've heard about her friends' trying to persuade her not to go. You can bet your life this would have been Ed and Frenda, since it was their kids she was singing to.
FreddieB
Member
I agree as I feel the same concerning their parents. I don't see any of these three as evil, in fact, I feel quite the opposite about them. I have always felt that Karen would be livid if she could read the things said about her family. I am glad her mom and dad were there when that happened to her.
I am quite pleased with Richard, because he has really honoured the fans. He has given us loads of extra tracks and shared many of his memories of his beloved sister with us. I lost my sister and my mother, so I can understand somewhat how he feels. If some people think they have a void, because Karen is gone... let me tell you that it is nothing like the void Richard feels.
There is no monster in the closet. It is like Richard said "**** happens".
Freddie
I am quite pleased with Richard, because he has really honoured the fans. He has given us loads of extra tracks and shared many of his memories of his beloved sister with us. I lost my sister and my mother, so I can understand somewhat how he feels. If some people think they have a void, because Karen is gone... let me tell you that it is nothing like the void Richard feels.
There is no monster in the closet. It is like Richard said "**** happens".
Freddie
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Rick-An Ordinary Fool
Well-Known Member
Stephen, I could be wrong in my assumption but Little Girl Blue says that Herb Alpert saw Karen shortly after the New Year and he recalled her looking terrific healthy, this makes me feel that Ed Leffler advised Karen not to sing at the school only due to knowing she had been in treatment recently in NY, maybe not so much about how she looked because Herb says she looks great. I think this goes back to a couple things, Karen had so much energy and was not one to sit around and do nothing and because we know now from John's recent interview that she was a fighter and could stand her own, she most likely convinced everyone around her that she was find and she was going to sing at this school no if's and's or butt's about it. This was also a very small event, only 40-45 children Karen sang for and Frenda says Karen was so happy to be singing for the children at Christmas.
It's also interesting to note, remember that photo we saw recently of Karen standing next to the jukebox dressed in Christmasy outfit, (it sorta looked like Dec 82) but this was not from the school event because according to Little Girl Blue, Karen wore a festive cardigan over a turtleneck with red slacks and matching shoes to the Buckley event. So we are still waiting for that photo or photos to appear. It would be cool for them to appear since Karen was looking better as evident of the Grammy photo just weeks later.
It's also interesting to note, remember that photo we saw recently of Karen standing next to the jukebox dressed in Christmasy outfit, (it sorta looked like Dec 82) but this was not from the school event because according to Little Girl Blue, Karen wore a festive cardigan over a turtleneck with red slacks and matching shoes to the Buckley event. So we are still waiting for that photo or photos to appear. It would be cool for them to appear since Karen was looking better as evident of the Grammy photo just weeks later.
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GaryAlan
Well-Known Member
Chris, you are not wrong in the assumption:
Herb Alpert does state that he had seen her 'recently' , she bounced
into his office, and he did say that Karen looked healthy. (I will locate that source--see below).
And:
(People 1983 )Paul Bloch, the Carpenter family's PR man, downplays the anorexia connection.
"Karen was a vibrant and energetic person," he insists.
Concurs Gil Friesen, president of A&M Records, the Carpenters' label, "Karen was the girl next door, always up even when she was down."
Here :http://www.theguardian.com/books/2010/oct/24/karen-carpenter-anorexia-book-extract
"In the weeks following her return to Los Angeles Karen went back to shopping and socialising without delay.
Although others felt she was still quite fragile and thin, Herb Alpert, who had first signed the Carpenters to A&M, saw Karen shortly after the New Year and recalled her looking terrific. She bounced into his office saying, "Hey, look at me, Herbie! What do you think? How do I look?" Alpert agreed that she looked happier and healthier than he had seen her in some time, and felt she appeared to have won the battle. "I am so happy," she told him.
"I'm ready to record again, and Richard and I have been talking about getting the group together and performing."
Herb Alpert does state that he had seen her 'recently' , she bounced
into his office, and he did say that Karen looked healthy. (I will locate that source--see below).
And:
(People 1983 )Paul Bloch, the Carpenter family's PR man, downplays the anorexia connection.
"Karen was a vibrant and energetic person," he insists.
Concurs Gil Friesen, president of A&M Records, the Carpenters' label, "Karen was the girl next door, always up even when she was down."
Here :http://www.theguardian.com/books/2010/oct/24/karen-carpenter-anorexia-book-extract
"In the weeks following her return to Los Angeles Karen went back to shopping and socialising without delay.
Although others felt she was still quite fragile and thin, Herb Alpert, who had first signed the Carpenters to A&M, saw Karen shortly after the New Year and recalled her looking terrific. She bounced into his office saying, "Hey, look at me, Herbie! What do you think? How do I look?" Alpert agreed that she looked happier and healthier than he had seen her in some time, and felt she appeared to have won the battle. "I am so happy," she told him.
"I'm ready to record again, and Richard and I have been talking about getting the group together and performing."
song4u
Well-Known Member
If I ask my husband "Do I look good?" he says "Do I look stupid?"."Hey, look at me, Herbie! What do you think? How do I look?"
If you know women at all, there's no way to answer that question but in the affirmative, regardless of what is really thought.
Yes I think some times we see what we want or hope to see.
GaryAlan
Well-Known Member
Harry, and Song4U, I understand completely what both of you are saying.
And, true on both counts.
However, Herb Alpert recalling Karen as .... "looking terrific"... does nothing to
indicate if he truly felt that way. If he really did not believe (what he said to Karen at that time),
then it would serve no purpose in an interview, after the fact, to not come out and say:
Well, this is what I said to Karen at that time. ...But, this is how it really was..."
There are other interviews wherein he says pretty much the same--and, one interview in
particular states that this incident took place a week ,or so, before the 4th.
Thus, to me anyhow, a dichotomy presents itself.
Red flags everywhere, that is how I read what her close friends are saying (Schmidt)
and, yet, despite this, there are those who indicate otherwise.
(If Karen was too weak to listen to playbacks in the studio, how on earth could one make
plans to consider returning to concert performances?).
And, true on both counts.
However, Herb Alpert recalling Karen as .... "looking terrific"... does nothing to
indicate if he truly felt that way. If he really did not believe (what he said to Karen at that time),
then it would serve no purpose in an interview, after the fact, to not come out and say:
Well, this is what I said to Karen at that time. ...But, this is how it really was..."
There are other interviews wherein he says pretty much the same--and, one interview in
particular states that this incident took place a week ,or so, before the 4th.
Thus, to me anyhow, a dichotomy presents itself.
Red flags everywhere, that is how I read what her close friends are saying (Schmidt)
and, yet, despite this, there are those who indicate otherwise.
(If Karen was too weak to listen to playbacks in the studio, how on earth could one make
plans to consider returning to concert performances?).
newvillefan
I Know My First Name Is Stephen
That thought has crossed my mind many times. I think by 1983 they were living in cloud cuckoo land if they thought a new album would be completed and a tour across American undertaken. In her weak state Karen probably would not have survived an ordeal like that. Would a Carpenters tour in 1983 even have sold well?
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