Solo Album and Single Success

[newvillefan]

All Because Of You, I've grown to like, but I don't like it as the 2nd track of the album.

I wouldn't have liked it wherever it was placed on the album, it should have been an outtake along with the rest of the unreleased tracks. I can just imagine the atmosphere and sideways glances during the playback when they got to that song so early in the proceedings. It’s a total dud and doesn’t do any justice to her talents as a vocalist.

 

[Rumbahbah]

Yes, and no. It is one of my favorites. If We Try could of been a potential follow-up to a successful single (had there been one!) It is more Carpenteresque, it might of done well on AC stations. All Because Of You, I've grown to like, but I don't like it as the 2nd track of the album. It interrupts the flow. But when I move the song elsewhere I enjoy it!

Disclaimer: I love the solo album and outtakes, as well as the body of work from Richard and Karen. Its equally relevant to me.

I don't feel 'If We Try' is very Carpenter-esque - it doesn't sound like anything they recorded as a duo. It's not one of the more immediate tracks on the album but I've grown to like it more and more as time has passed and it's now one of the highlights on the solo album for me. It wouldn't have been a good lead single, but I can see it as a follow-up single - that smooth/lite jazz feel would surely have picked up some radio attention.

I know it's not to everyone's tastes, but I have no problem with 'All Because of You' either as a song or as the second track on the album - it works quite well in its placement as a 'contrast' to 'Lovelines' and 'If I Had You'.

 

[John Adam]

I wouldn't have liked it wherever it was placed on the album, it should have been an outtake along with the rest of the unreleased tracks. I can just imagine the atmosphere and sideways glances during the playback when they got to that song so early in the proceedings. It’s a total dud and doesn’t do any justice to her talents as a vocalist.

Even "Love Makin Love To You?"

I just feel it's another side of Karen. I'm not crazy about some of the outtakes either. But I cherish being able to hear the sounds and ideas that were part of the solo sessions.

 

[John Adam]

I don't feel 'If We Try' is very Carpenter-esque - it doesn't sound like anything they recorded as a duo.

We will just agree that it is a good song that fit in well with the other Carpenters tunes on "Lovelines!"

 

[newvillefan]

Even "Love Makin Love To You?"

God no, I wouldn’t lump that in with the outtakes. That track should have been on the album! Maybe side B though, to give people time to build up to the shock of it

 

[tomswift2002]

Do you guys think if we try was single material? If so why. I thoroughly enjoy this song as well as all because of you.

I think “If We Try” is just album filler, or at most “B”-side material.

Again, “All Because of You” is also album filler. I wouldn’t even rank it as being “B”-side material. I think it’s one of the weakest tracks on Karen’s solo album. I think Don’t Try To Win Me Back is stronger and could’ve easily have been a “B”-side, maybe even an “A”-side, but easily a “B”-side and should’ve been put on the solo album rather than All Because of You/Make Believe It’s Your First Time.

In this quote from 2017, you can see what I think would’ve been strong singles and album tracks in 1980/81. If you notice, the lead-off single from Made In America, if I’d been producing the MIA album, would’ve been If I Had You/Don’t Try To Win Me Back. (Also, when compared to what was released, I only kept 3 tracks from the MIA that we got and tossed the other tracks in the vault! And I was just thinking, if we ever get a RPO2, it would be nice if Richard redid the instrumental tracks for My Body Keeps Changing My Mind and he could turn it into a really nice dance track—-like what he did with Baby It’s You.)

If I was producing Made In America in 1981 I would have this line up for the album:

Side 1

Prime Time Love
Your Baby Doesn't Love You Anymore
Don't Try To Win Me Back
The Uninvited Guest
If I Had You (but remix it so that it ended cold)
Leave Yesterday Behind
(Want You) Back In My Life Again
Remember When Loving Took All Night
The Rainbow Connection

Side 2

My Body Keeps Changing My Mind (aside from keeping Karen's lead track, and the opening drum line (but with added reverb and more stereo separation), I'd re-record the instruments and backing vocals, so that this was a very upbeat dance track, kind of like what Richard did in 1991, but eliminating the disco entirely)
Lovelines
Beechwood 4-5789
Looking For Love* (again a re-record, possible a Richard lead)
I've Got Rhythm
You're Just In Love (just as it appears on As Time Goes By, with Richard dueting with Karen)
Touch Me When We're Dancing
Slow Dance


*if it was written I might even consider Something In Your Eyes with Richard on lead.

Single Releases:

Single #1 If I Had You/Don't Try To Win Me Back (this would be issued shortly after starting the project, as aside from some light editing, they are already ready to go)
Single #2 I've Got Rhythm/Leave Yesterday Behind (to tie-into the Carpenters 1980 TV special)
Single #3 My Body Keeps Changing My Mind/You're Just In Love (this would be released within the month prior to the album's release)
Single #4 The Rainbow Connection/Kiss Me The Way You Did Last Night
Single #5 Touch Me When We're Dancing/Making Love In The Afternoon
Single #6 Prime Time Love/Lovelines
Single #7 Your Baby Doesn't Love You Anymore/The Uninvited Guest
Single #8 (non-album single) Do You Hear What I Hear? (duet with Richard)/I Heard The Bells On Christmas Day (keep Karen's vocal track from 78, but re-record the instruments, including adding bells to the track)

With Singles 5 & 8, the three tracks that were not on MIA would just be single-only tracks, with a possibility of hinting at what might come in the future, with the Christmas tracks being released somewhere around October/November 1980.

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

Yes, and no. It is one of my favorites. If We Try could of been a potential follow-up to a successful single (had there been one!) It is more Carpenteresque, it might of done well on AC stations. All Because Of You, I've grown to like, but I don't like it as the 2nd track of the album. It interrupts the flow. But when I move the song elsewhere I enjoy it!

Disclaimer: I love the solo album and outtakes, as well as the body of work from Richard and Karen. Its equally relevant to me.

Please forgive me but I don't even like the Javors tunes on the album. Both of them are too simplistic and the lyrics aren't good enough for Karen. She needs a solid lyric in order to really flourish and in my insignificant opinion, neither of his tunes have one. I also didn't like "Making Love..." for the same reason. Just nothing lyrics that don't really make Karen shine. Further, Karen just isn't convincing trying to "rock". That's not what suited her. She may have liked rock but she didn't have the chops for it. She'd recorded better things that could have been used instead but for whatever reasons they had, those things weren't chosen.

Ed

 

[John Adam]

^So then, what songs from the 21 that were recorded/partially recorded would you have chosen to be released on Karen's solo album?^

 

[tomswift2002]

For Karen’s solo album I would’ve done it this way:

Side 1
Lovelines
It’s Really You
If I Had You (cold ending)
Guess I Just Lost My Head
Something’s Missing
I Do It For Your Love

Side 2
My Body Keeps Changing My Mind (mixed with less disco)
Remember When Lovin’ Took All Night
Don’t Try To Win Me Back
Making Love in The Afternoon
Love Making Love To You
Jimmy Mack

Single #1
If I Had You/Don’t Try To Win Me Back

Single #2
My Body Keeps Changing My Mind/Remember When Loving Took All Night

Single #3
Making Love In The Afternoon/Jimmy Mack

Single #4
Lovelines/Midnight

Single #5
Love Making Love To You/If We Try

Single #6
Guess I Just Lost My Head/I Do It For Your Love

Single #7
Something’s Missing/It’s Really You

Single #8
Keep My Lovelight Burning/Last One Singing The Blues

 

[John Adam]

For Karen’s solo album I would’ve done it this way:

Interesting Tom. Thanks for sharing!
We all hear things differently. I like for the most part the track listing of the album. I guess some of the outtakes had they been finished would of made good B-sides too. At least more songs could be released then.
Eight singles? What is this "Thriller" or something?

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

Interesting Tom. Thanks for sharing!
We all hear things differently. I like for the most part the track listing of the album. I guess some of the outtakes had they been finished would of made good B-sides too. At least more songs could be released then.
Eight singles? What is this "Thriller" or something?

Agreed. There is no conceivable way Karen would have gotten 8 singles off that record. Even if released, I doubt it would have gotten much more than two. Carpenters were ice cold commercially and I don't think there's anything on that album that would have warmed them up. One hopes it would have sold acceptable numbers but a chart topper, this ain't.

Ed

 

[newvillefan]

Single #1
If I Had You/Don’t Try To Win Me Back

Single #2
My Body Keeps Changing My Mind/Remember When Loving Took All Night

Single #3
Making Love In The Afternoon/Jimmy Mack

Single #4
Lovelines/Midnight

Single #5
Love Making Love To You/If We Try

Single #6
Guess I Just Lost My Head/I Do It For Your Love

Single #7
Something’s Missing/It’s Really You

Single #8
Keep My Lovelight Burning/Last One Singing The Blues

That’s more singles than Thriller had

 

[Proudofyou]

Anything considered Rock? Maybe not. Smooth Jazz? Absolutely. (she did have a jazz background too).

 

[Geographer]

For Karen’s solo album I would’ve done it this way:

Side 1
Lovelines
It’s Really You
If I Had You (cold ending)
Guess I Just Lost My Head
Something’s Missing
I Do It For Your Love

Side 2
My Body Keeps Changing My Mind (mixed with less disco)
Remember When Lovin’ Took All Night
Don’t Try To Win Me Back
Making Love in The Afternoon
Love Making Love To You
Jimmy Mack

Single #1
If I Had You/Don’t Try To Win Me Back

Single #2
My Body Keeps Changing My Mind/Remember When Loving Took All Night

Single #3
Making Love In The Afternoon/Jimmy Mack

Single #4
Lovelines/Midnight

Single #5
Love Making Love To You/If We Try

Single #6
Guess I Just Lost My Head/I Do It For Your Love

Single #7
Something’s Missing/It’s Really You

Single #8
Keep My Lovelight Burning/Last One Singing The Blues

I like your line-up; however, I would switch out Love Making Love to You. I really dislike the song Lovelines...a lot. On side two, I'd then fill that Love Making...spot with Last One Singing The Blues.

 

[tomswift2002]

I like your line-up; however, I would switch out Love Making Love to You. I really dislike the song Lovelines...a lot. On side two, I'd then fill that Love Making...spot with Last One Singing The Blues.

Last One Singing The Blues while it would’ve made a good B-Side, overall it’s just too slow for the album. As Karen approved it, it’s all over from the uptempo dance songs to the songs that would fit more on a jazz album. Phil should’ve had Karen just present a solid, upbeat pop album. And I definitely think that had it been released in 80, using the upbeat pop songs as A side singles would’ve cracked the charts. It’s wasn’t unheard of for the Carpenters to release most of their album material as singles, since they released 5 for both MIA & ASFY.

Although I’ve been thinking, I should switched “Remember” with “Guess”, since MLITA and RWLTALN are both strong enough for A-sides in 80. “Guess” could’ve been an A or a B.

 

[Geographer]

Last One Singing The Blues while it would’ve made a good B-Side, overall it’s just too slow for the album. As Karen approved it, it’s all over from the uptempo dance songs to the songs that would fit more on a jazz album. Phil should’ve had Karen just present a solid, upbeat pop album. And I definitely think that had it been released in 80, using the upbeat pop songs as A side singles would’ve cracked the charts. It’s wasn’t unheard of for the Carpenters to release most of their album material as singles, since they released 5 for both MIA & ASFY.

Although I’ve been thinking, I should switched “Remember” with “Guess”, since MLITA and RWLTALN are both strong enough for A-sides in 80. “Guess” could’ve been an A or a B.

Re-reading my original post (before my morning coffee), I meant that I'd replace Lovelines with Love Making Love to You as the opener. Doesn't start out "uptempo" but lyrically, it was 180 degrees from her virginal image and would "announce" that this was definitely NOT going to be just another Carpenters album with an alternate producer.

 

[John Adam]

I noticed "Still Crazy" was missing from the album. I'd keep that and get rid of "Jimmy."
But I would miss Lovelines too!

Good compromise, lets just release all the tracks, finished, and let us decide what we would like on the "Karen Carpenter" album from the songs she recorded. #2 Release all the photos from the session(s) and you pick the album cover of your choice. That would make me happy. Anyone else?

P.S. Not that I haven't already done that.

 

[John Adam]

Plus I wish (if one were available) that a Carpenter/Betis song had been recorded for her solo set as a nod to her favorite songwriting team.
Of course it would have Phil's full production quality so it didn't become a "clone" to a Carpenters song. Has this been previously mentioned?
Was that ever considered or an option?

I noticed Frida recorded a Bjorn/Benny composition on her 2nd solo set, and it didn't sound like an ABBA record.

 

[tomswift2002]

Again, Still Crazy After All These Years is a slow song, and for an uptempo pop album, doesn’t work.

Just like Make Believe It’s Your First Time is a dance song, it’s a slow waltz. Really doesn’t work on an uptempo pop album. Good for a one-off B-side, but not good for a pop album.

It’s too bad Karen didn’t do a re-record of Looking For Love. Sure it was an obscure single, but it would’ve been interesting to have seen an 80’s Ramone twist on the song. Or The Parting of Our Ways.

 

[Geographer]

Plus I wish (if one were available) that a Carpenter/Betis song had been recorded for her solo set as a nod to her favorite songwriting team.
Of course it would have Phil's full production quality so it didn't become a "clone" to a Carpenters song. Has this been previously mentioned?
Was that ever considered or an option?

I noticed Frida recorded a Bjorn/Benny composition on her 2nd solo set, and it didn't sound like an ABBA record.

I think John Bettis said, in an interview, somewhere, that he didn't think it would have been "right" to compose songs for Karen's solo effort and that, if he was asked, (and I don't think he was) he would have declined…or something to that effect.

 

[Harry]

He certainly was no fan of what was produced, that's for sure.

 

[newvillefan]

Again, Still Crazy After All These Years is a slow song, and for an uptempo pop album, doesn’t work.

Even pop albums need/have ebb and flow and a sprinkling of ballads. This was a strong track and really well performed by her. It deserves its place on the album. I’m still not sure what brief songwriters like Peter Cetera were given by Phil Ramone, other than “come up with something as far out for Karen Carpenter as you can”.

He certainly was no fan of what was produced, that's for sure.

Each to their own.

 

[tomswift2002]

Even pop albums need/have ebb and flow and a sprinkling of ballads. This was a strong track and really well performed by her. It deserves its place on the album. I’m still not sure what brief songwriters like Peter Cetera were given by Phil Ramone, other than “come up with something as far out for Karen Carpenter as you can”.

If this were a jazz album or slower album it would’ve worked better. But on the album as it was released it’s like someone jumped on the brakes and threw everyone through the front windshield when the song comes on, same with All Because of You, If We Try & Make Believe It’s Your First Time, the momentum that’s been built up comes to a slamming halt! It’s a decent song, but it’s an out of place song. It’s like on the 1989 Lovelines album, Where Do I Go From Here, If We Try, You’re The One & Little Girl Blue are the slowest tracks, and slow the album down, but it’s not as dramatic as on Karen’s solo since the album is a pop album, but it’s a medium tempo pop album, not an upbeat pop album.

Karen’s solo is still miles better than Made In America and I listen to it more than MIA, but Karen and Phil were trying too many styles. In a way, the tempo comes across as that of a greatest hits album’s tempo, rather than a cohesive studio album’s tempo. For Karen’s solo debut, they should’ve stuck to one type of music for the album. If it was an uptempo pop, then uptempo pop; if it was country then country.

 

[John Adam]

If this were a jazz album or slower album it would’ve worked better. But on the album as it was released it’s like someone jumped on the brakes and threw everyone through the front windshield when the song comes on, same with All Because of You, If We Try & Make Believe It’s Your First Time, the momentum that’s been built up comes to a slamming halt! It’s a decent song, but it’s an out of place song. It’s like on the 1989 Lovelines album, Where Do I Go From Here, If We Try, You’re The One & Little Girl Blue are the slowest tracks, and slow the album down, but it’s not as dramatic as on Karen’s solo since the album is a pop album, but it’s a medium tempo pop album, not an upbeat pop album.

Karen’s solo is still miles better than Made In America and I listen to it more than MIA, but Karen and Phil were trying too many styles. In a way, the tempo comes across as that of a greatest hits album’s tempo, rather than a cohesive studio album’s tempo. For Karen’s solo debut, they should’ve stuck to one type of music for the album. If it was an uptempo pop, then uptempo pop; if it was country then country.

It was a first attempt at a solo album for Karen. There might of been a multitude of styles, compare that to the Carpenters album "Passage." I'm sure she was also anxious to branch out stylistically. I see where you are trying to go with the upbeat style pop album, but just like on a country album, there is room for ballads alongside up-tempo material. It might just be the placement of that ballad material, so the mood doesn't change so drastically as to lessen the listening experience.

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

I think John Bettis said, in an interview, somewhere, that he didn't think it would have been "right" to compose songs for Karen's solo effort and that, if he was asked, (and I don't think he was) he would have declined…or something to that effect.

She was moving in different directions so no need to reach out to Bettis for anything.

Ed