Carpenters "Christmas Portrait" orig. CD on eBay!

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Yes, it was released by A&M in 1984, in West Germany only. This is considered a real gem in the Carpenters' world. VERY difficult to find one of these actually.

In fact, Richard even talked about how even though it is authentic, he was not aware at the time that A&M had even released this anywhere. Kinda funny actually! -Chris
 
I thought that posts from Chris May were getting pretty rare in the Carpenters world! :)

Harry
 
Hahahaha...That's funny, I've been realizing that more and more lately myself! Lotsa life stuff...all good, but busy. I'll be posting more regularly...
 
Funny how "life stuff" gets in the way sometimes, isn't it? :)

Harry
 
Mike Blakesley said:
I thought the original CP was never released on CD at all. Is this genuine?
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I think this is the one that got accidentally released without approval...hence the "original" version.
 
Isn't this this CD version that has "Ave Maria" without the choir? A true rare 'original album cd'!
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Yes it is. I picked this CD up in Munich in the 1990s and for about 10 years I didn't even realise what I was sitting on. But yes, lo and behold when I went back to listen to it more carefully, it had the version of 'Ave Maria' without the choir!

Stephen
 
I have this one in my collection also. I remember the place & the day I bought it, funny that! I did a double take as I passed the record store & out came the cash in a flash.
Looking at the back outer artwork, it says "Made in West Germany", but the disc reads "Made in France by PDO". Can anyone shed any light here?

I don't think this release was a mistake as i live in Perth, Western Australia, where I bought my copy.

Steve
 
I can say "Me, too" to both of the prior replies. I was in Munich in the late '80s with my wife; we were enjoying the surroundings near the famed Marienplatz. I saw a record store that I wanted to look in, and she decided to stay outside, where she chatted with one of the locals. I wasn't looking for anything in particular, but just browsed through some of the CDs to see what they had. To my surprise, I saw this Carpenters CHRISTMAS PORTRAIT, saw immediately that it didn't have the SPECIAL EDITION verbiage, and examined it closer.

My interest at the time was to get the original LP in CD format, and I wasn't as concerned with which mix it might be. Since the track listing mirrored what I remembered the LP being, I bought it. After I brought it home and played it - probably the next Christmas season - was when I realized that it really was an exact replica of the LP, soundwise, with the most notable difference being the lack of choir on "Ave Maria".

The story I've heard is that this was issued in Germany by mistake. Polygram wanted to issue the album there and someone at A&M sent the old LP master rather than the new SPECIAL EDITION master. It was out in circulation for a number of years before Richard caught on, halted that European edition, and issued what he deemed to be the correct "SPECIAL EDITION" to Polygram.

As thing turned out, when they went to use THIS original master for the 35th Anniversary Box Set in Japan, CHRISTMAS PORTRAIT was unusable since the master tapes had deteriorated with age.

My copy has a "SPECIAL PRICE" sticker on the fronmt of the jewel case, has "Made in West Germany by Polygram" printed around the circumference of the disc, and is one of those discs with the silvering all the way to the center of the hub.

Harry
 
Harry said:
It was out in circulation for a number of years before Richard caught on, halted that European edition, and issued what he deemed to be the correct "SPECIAL EDITION" to Polygram. Harry
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I didn't realize it was years until it was caught by Richard I thought it was much sooner, in that case there has to be alot more copies of this than I originally thought.


Harry said:
My copy has a "SPECIAL PRICE" sticker on the fronmt of the jewel case, has "Made in West Germany by Polygram" printed around the circumference of the disc, and is one of those discs with the silvering all the way to the center of the hub. Harry
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I have 2 originals Germany CD's One ended up getting slightly scratched for about 5 secds at the end of one song and it killed me that happened so I seeked out another, took about 6 months to a 1 yr to find another one and I was so happy to find it, cost me much less than the first one, I think it was from a dealer in the Netherlands a record store on ebay that I got the 2nd one from.
 
I have a couple of questions. First, how is it that Richard has been able to remaster other original Carpenters albums over and over (some much older than Christmas Portrait) and somehow the master tape for this was not preserved in the same environment?

Second, if there exists a master for the CD pressing that accidentally went out in Europe, how come it can't be re-used? Don't many overseas releases have a better quality?

Thanks
 
I was the individual who listed this CD on eBay. I have a very large collection, and downright overstock of Carpenters stuff. I've decided to start selling some of it! This CD *is* a legitimate "rarity". -Chris
 
It's one CD that I would have liked to have had. $250 is too much for me. I prefer the original mixes over what Richard has remixed. Especially when it comes to the Xmas albums.
 
Here's the story, as I understand it -- somebody correct me if I'm wrong about any of the details.

In 1984, someone at Polygram in Germany requested the two-channel album master for CHRISTMAS PORTRAIT. This would not have been the multi-track master that was made in the recording studio during the recording sessions, but rather the tape that was sent to the record-pressing plant containing the stereo mix-down of the album.

Whether they requested the original album master (not knowing there was a "Special Edition" being made in the U.S.), or it was a mistake on A&M's part (sending out the wrong tape), it ended up being mastered for CD and released in Europe.

Fast-forward to the 1990's. The Japanese want to issue a 2-CD set containing both complete original Christmas albums. The original two-channel album masters for both are sent to Japan for CD mastering, but upon opening the box containing CHRISTMAS PORTRAIT, they discover that the tape has been damaged.

Rather than use a second-generation copy of the album master, or using the CD version from Germany, the decision is made to re-mix the entire album from the multi-track masters. This allows Richard to "fix" some of the problems from the original (such as the lack of a choir on "Ave Maria").

This remixed version of the album becomes the "official" version, being used for releases in the U.S. and in subsequent Japanese releases. It explains why CHRISTMAS PORTRAIT was not included in the "Remastered Classics" series, since all of those CDs were remastered from the original album masters.

So this is why, even though the album master was damaged, the recording can be remastered repeatedly. In theory, the "original" LP version could be re-created from the original master tapes, if Richard wanted to do it, but obviously he has not wanted to do that.

David
 
Yes David, you are correct on all counts. The West Germany version of "Portrait" was an error in release on Polygram's part for the reason you mentioned. The 2-channel master that went to Japan a few years back for remaster was decimated upon inspection/playback, for whatever reason, they could not bake the tape to save from oxidation. -Chris
 
Geez, those tapes must have been stored underwater or something. Tapes do not die easily. I've seen some tapes that were stored in what amounted to steam baths for several years brought back to life in the "baking" process. I'd be very curious to know what harmed these tapes so badly that they couldn't be "baked".

Ed
 
Ed brings up a good point, which caused me to remember this quote from Carpenters official site where Richard says this:

"Because of all the studio time, plus the cost of a full orchestra and a large choir, Christmas Portrait became the Carpenters’ most expensive album to that point. Richard remembers that A&M at one point registered some concern about the mounting bills. “It will be worth it when it’s done,” he promised them"

Link:
http://www.richardandkarencarpenter.com/Album_ChristmasCollection.htm

(about a 1/4 down from the top page


If this project indeed was the most expensive, you would have thought it would have been preserved in the best way possible instead of put aside in such state. I'll never forget reading that statement in the 35th anniv box set that Richard says this album should have been Karen's alone.
 
What I don't understand is why there was only ONE copy of the Christmas Portrait 2-channel tape. Is it standard industry practice to not have a backup copy?

At any rate, if Richard had really wanted to release the original mix as part of the "Christmas Collection", he could have used the German CD as the source. That CD sounds just fine, and wouldn't have needed any "remastering" at all.
 
Murray said:
At any rate, if Richard had really wanted to release the original mix as part of the "Christmas Collection", he could have used the German CD as the source. That CD sounds just fine, and wouldn't have needed any "remastering" at all.
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ACTUALLY, I don't know how many of you own or have owned this disc, but in the song "Ave Maria", at the section where Karen sings "Sancta Maria, Sancta Maria; Maria, ora pro nobis", there is a dropout in the overall mix. Listen to it very carefully. Incidentally, there is another spot (I can't remember where at the moment) in the original '78 mix where Karen's vocal was edited incorrectly during a punch-in, which I believe Richard fixed in the remix by using the alternate take. -Chris
 
Is it standard industry practice to not have a backup copy?
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No, but in those days of magnetic tape, a lot of tapes didn't get proper labeling or cataloging. In those pre-computer days, scribbled shorthand notes were often used, and sometimes the label got separated from the tape reel. Add to this confusion when a record company gets sold...things get moved, reorganized, discarded, etc.

So the result is, today when you find a stack of tapes on a shelf, the only way to find the material you want, is to listen to the tape. A very time-consuming process. The original masters are undoubtedly sitting on a shelf somewhere. Either RC's archivists haven't found them, or they HAVE been found but are being kept on the shelf for whatever reason.
 
Chris May said:
ACTUALLY, I don't know how many of you own or have owned this disc, but in the song "Ave Maria", at the section where Karen sings "Sancta Maria, Sancta Maria; Maria, ora pro nobis", there is a dropout in the overall mix. Listen to it very carefully.
Click to expand...

I still recall a review in a "stereo" magazine from around the mid-80's when the CHRISTMAS PORTRAIT SPECIAL EDITION was released. The reviewer said that the choir was added to that track to mask that particular dropout. Not knowing any different, I accepted that as fact for years until learning that Richard had always intended the choir in the recording, and got to add it for that SPECIAL EDITION.

Harry
 
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