Carpenters unreleased videos

[GaryAlan]

Thanks for the beautiful, explication of this issue, Harry !
Obviously, in bringing forth the Liner Notes from As Time Goes By, it was my intention to draw attention precisely to the "CO-"
in the word "Co-owner" ! We all realize what that word implies---what is not known is to what extent that (co-)ownership entails!
The devil is in the details, as they say ! 50% ABC and 50% Karen and Richard Carpenter ? (Who really knows ?).
Didn't John Davidson request an inordinate amount of royalty for his part in the audio-recordings from the specials---thus,
even he has a monetary stake--separate from ABC Television. (Not to mention he was managed at the time by Weintraub,also.)

N.B.: My post is, and was, simply meant to present extant documentary evidence, not to offer an opinion, one side or the other.

 

[GaryAlan]

Richard Carpenter, Official Carpenter Website:
Q:"I'm trying to find out if "Make Your Own Kind Of Music" will ever be released completely on DVD?”.
A: “Absolutely not. Obtaining guest artists' releases, taking care of payment for publishing,
director's fee, musicians' fees, etc. would prove to be a Herculean task and one that would not be practical given the meager amount of sales the package would generate. Plus, I don't care at all for the show.”

 

[Made In America]

As someone pointed out,


Read that "co-". That means that the duo SHARED ownership with ABC-TV for the TV specials. (Different deal entirely with NBC for MAKE YOUR OWN KIND OF MUSIC.) Rights issues are indeed complicated when it comes to performance rights on television. None of the many participants of those: guest stars, musicians, directors, etc,. have been legally paid for these performances to appear on DVD. Their rights were negotiated originally for one, perhaps two runs on ABC-TV. That's it. Rights negotiations for music compositions and performances is what holds up MANY DVD and Blu-ray releases. And I'm not saying that negotiating music rights is the ONLY hold-up.



Rights issues are one of several hurdles, not the least of which is Richard's own opinion of those television appearances. That's not making an excuse. It's the MAIN reason why your dream DVD isn't available. Richard HATES these old TV performances. Find a way to change his opinions somehow and you might solve much of the problem.



You're new here, and your passion is valid. Many of us have been around these parts for decades, and we've learned what the realities are, so telling US we're not in your universe isn't a way of endearing yourself. Many of us care deeply, but know the logistics of the situation.

Harry

As you said before, it can be done. As you said, the main obstacle is Richard. My original post concerning this subject pointed to my disappointment towards Richard. The responses since then have been to primarily point to challenging logistics. That's an excuse to redirect the issue to something other than Richard. That's the point I am making about enabling and justifying his bad behavior. The focus should be Richard. The disappointment should focus on Richard. A DVD of just their Christmas performances would be a good compromise. But I get the feeling from this message board that fans are submissive and just learn to accept the wishes of Richard. That's not how change happens. I love Richard, but I will not relinquish the battle. I guess my question to all of you is how badly do you want this release to DVD? Would you be willing to start an email writing campaign? Will all of you refuse to purchase any further Carpenters releases until a Christmas DVD is released? I'm open to ideas.

 

[Made In America]

Richard Carpenter, Official Carpenter Website:
Q:"I'm trying to find out if "Make Your Own Kind Of Music" will ever be released completely on DVD?”.
A: “Absolutely not. Obtaining guest artists' releases, taking care of payment for publishing,
director's fee, musicians' fees, etc. would prove to be a Herculean task and one that would not be practical given the meager amount of sales the package would generate. Plus, I don't care at all for the show.”

The Captain & Tennille did it. Just focus on the Carpenters performances only for a Christmas DVD and most of those obstacles are reduced. Looks like I need to visit the Richard Carpenter website. Looks like all of us need to visit the Richard Carpenter website.

 

[Harry]

I can't imagine too many people here will be jumping on your particular bandwagon. There might be some, but not that many. First you implied that we're not in your universe if we don't agree with your premises. Next you call us "submissive" - your word, not mine. And that's fine. We're all entitled to our opinions. But you'll find it easier to make friends with a bit of a nicer approach. Unless you're Donald Trump, you don't rally the troops by insulting them.

We've been down this road before. There are numbers of fans who used to post here who tried the approach you're using to attempt to lobby Herb Alpert to release VOLUME 2 (and/or WARM and THE BRASS ARE COMIN') onto CD. Those three only went to online files and not CDs in the Signature Series. It went on and on and on until we had to close some threads down in an effort to move on. A decade later, those albums are STILL file-based only, and it's not because WE closed down some threads. Herb's in control of his stuff. Richard is in control of his. THEY decide what to release (and in Richard's case, you've got record companies, television networks, et al., deciding what to release).

As for the Richard Carpenter website, I don't think ANYONE's updated it in nearly a decade.

Go ahead with your love/hate thing with Richard. Heaven knows there's enough of that going on around here. But I wouldn't lose too much sleep over getting any more videos. If they ever DO happen, by some strange miracle, those of us who are left will be first in line to buy them. Who knows? Maybe we'll have YOU to thank for them.

Harry

 

[Made In America]

I can't imagine too many people here will be jumping on your particular bandwagon. There might be some, but not that many. First you implied that we're not in your universe if we don't agree with your premises. Next you call us "submissive" - your word, not mine. And that's fine. We're all entitled to our opinions. But you'll find it easier to make friends with a bit of a nicer approach. Unless you're Donald Trump, you don't rally the troops by insulting them.

We've been down this road before. There are numbers of fans who used to post here who tried the approach you're using to attempt to lobby Herb Alpert to release VOLUME 2 (and/or WARM and THE BRASS ARE COMIN') onto CD. Those three only went to online files and not CDs in the Signature Series. It went on and on and on until we had to close some threads down in an effort to move on. A decade later, those albums are STILL file-based only, and it's not because WE closed down some threads. Herb's in control of his stuff. Richard is in control of his. THEY decide what to release (and in Richard's case, you've got record companies, television networks, et al., deciding what to release).

As for the Richard Carpenter website, I don't think ANYONE's updated it in nearly a decade.

Go ahead with your love/hate thing with Richard. Heaven knows there's enough of that going on around here. But I wouldn't lose too much sleep over getting any more videos. If they ever DO happen, by some strange miracle, those of us who are left will be first in line to buy them. Who knows? Maybe we'll have YOU to thank for them.

Harry

If someone in this message board felt that audio recordings were a sufficient replacement for video recordings, then they wouldn't be in my Carpenters universe. That's a fair statement. But the poster who stated that explained it wasn't his view but a possible viewpoint of the public. So that should not have been an insult to anyone in this message board because I have seen no one who feels that way here. But based on your reaction to my posts, would not being in my universe be considered an insult? To some like yourself, that might be considered a blessing.

If someone doesn't want to fight for something they believe in, one word to describe that would be submissive. Is being submissive an insult? Only if someone felt guilty for not fighting for something they believe in. Otherwise, why be insulted? There are some things I believe in that I don't fight for and in those cases I would call myself submissive. I recognize and embrace that. In today's world of political correctness mania, I think people search to find ways to become offended. You mentioned Donald Trump and while I personally think he is a bit bombastic, it is a bit tiring to start each newscast with, "Donald Trump has started a firestorm with comments he made today". We could have an entire discussion about this, but since this is not the right forum to do so, I will leave it at that.

Back to the main topic of releasing material from the vault before we were sidetracked. I was surprised to read the information concerning Herb Alpert's three albums. Those becoming available in a digital download format should be a victory to those who were wanting them released. I would be completely satisfied if the Carpenters Christmas videos were available in a high resolution download. They don't need to be DVD. It was just easier to state DVD as an example of an exchange. I would even be happy if they were aired on a cable station to allow Richard to avoid any red tape about them being released. I am not that demanding. I am reasonable. I feel Richard is the unreasonable one. That was the premise of my original post before it went awry.

 

[Harry]

Much of your above post is coherent, well-thought out, and reasonable, and I haven't meant to be as argumentative as I may have seemed. I've merely been attempting to let you know that much of this has been hashed out before and always ends the same way - no more videos. Richard is unyielding - and if you wish to attach the word "unreasonable" to that, well that's your prerogative.

You are listed as a "New Member" and as such, I've been trying to help you out by conveying what I feel are the general sensibilities of this community. Don't misunderstand me, I think virtually all of us would jump at the chance for newly remastered videos - heck, there's one coming out in the PBS thing this year. As of yet, we don't know which performances were expanded and whether or not we already have them, but we all jumped at the chance to spend a fortune to get it - and the CDs.

That being said, here are some points on which I'll remain on the "argumentative" side.

If someone in this message board felt that audio recordings were a sufficient replacement for video recordings, then they wouldn't be in my Carpenters universe.

Richard and Karen would probably be the first to tell you that they were a) "studio animals" and b) recording artists. I personally believe that they succumbed to pressures of the day to a) perform live and b) do television as means of appearing before live audiences. There has been much written about how both of those pressures possibly led to their downfall. As such, I personally am always just a bit 'uncomfortable' watching the videos we do have, as if we're watching something that they were 'forced' to do.

If someone doesn't want to fight for something they believe in, one word to describe that would be submissive. Is being submissive an insult?

It's not a compliment, that's for sure. And since you were a new member, I was trying to help you see that it wasn't an endearing term.

You mentioned Donald Trump

Indeed I did - and for that I apologize. This forum is not for politics, and that subject is forbidden. My reference to that gentleman was an effort at light humor and nothing more.

Friends?

Harry

 

[GaryAlan]

Beautifully said, Harry !

Appending this quote from November 20, 1976 Melody Maker:
Richard Carpenter,
" Why do we work so hard, Karen? Not for money, anymore. For Applause.
I love the sound of people clapping for me. This is my life--performing."

Thus, it is difficult to believe that Karen and Richard were 'forced' into appearing on
the television shows, or performing live concerts. ("...the direction they craved ", Coleman page 215)
Jerry Weintraub, as is well-documented (Coleman,page 213) felt that keeping Carpenters on television was a
replacement for live concerts, a method of keeping the duo in the public eye in order to
generate record sales. The duo, again, well-documented, had no argument with that logic.
And, " Richard mentioned that Sherwin Bash made a conscious decision to keep them away from TV" ( ibid,page 213-214)

 

[Harry]

Appending this quote from November 20, 1976 Melody Maker:
Richard Carpenter,
" Why do we work so hard, Karen? Not for money, anymore. For Applause.
I love the sound of people clapping for me. This is my life--performing."

I think that in late 1976, they may have been talked into believing that (or talked themselves into believing that). Hit records were drying up, so they were looking forward to their next big challenge.

Of course the allure of being television stars was an attractive proposition, but hindsight (and it is here I speak of Richard's hindsight), which is 20/20, is that it didn't work out quite the way he thought it would. His appearances on TV and stage were always, at best, a bit awkward. Watch him in any of his bravura piano performances. He'll concentrate on what he's doing, looking as grim as can be, and then look toward the camera, and as if someone in his ear was yelling "Smile!", he'll flash that awkward grin. It just always looked odd to me, and made ME feel bad for HIM. He looks uncomfortable, and it makes ME uncomfortable.

Karen always looked pretty natural in front of TV cameras. Her stage appearance improved over the years. But early on, she was pretty nervous too.

Have you ever had someone take a bad picture of you? One that makes you look horribly different than you think you look? Don't most people generally make a plea to not show that photo around? That's the way I see Richard and the way he sees the TV shows. He's already relented to release the promo videos that existed (as long as he got to tweak the audio!) on the YESTERDAY ONCE MORE and INTERPRETATIONS videos, not to mention the Japanese Budokan concert. Heck, he even relented to what in his mind is the worst, the "I Need To Be In Love" video - and he did commentary on it. In his mind, that's probably enough - especially considering all of the bootleg videos that people put up without authorization on YouTube.

Anyway, those are my feelings and observations. Make what you will of them. Continue to spend your time pursuing the unobtainable if you will. I'll bow out of this particular discussion having explained my views.

Harry

 

[byline]

I very much agree with your assessment, Harry. Richard, in particular, was not a natural in front of the camera. And Karen, seemingly in an effort to compensate, often overdid the "cuteness" factor by a factor of 10. I just think the material they were given for the vast majority of their TV specials and appearances did not suit them well. They were musicians, first and foremost. Though I think Richard had his moments as a performer. His and Karen's most naturally flowing, energetic, dynamic performance I have seen of them, captured on video, is that black-and-white footage of their 1972 Australian concert. There Richard seems to be quite comfortable in his role as master of ceremonies, and everything feels right, somehow. Why that couldn't be maintained is a bit of a mystery to me, but I think show business has a way of undermining the real strengths of a performer in favor of whatever popular trend is reigning at the moment.

 

[GaryAlan]

Harry, I believe you are absolutely correct in your observations !

(By the way, I have no desire whatsoever to seek the appearance of any more DVD releases !, regardless .)
I merely interjected a dash of objective criteria into the discussion, as with the documentary evidence--incomplete as it is.
Had there been a push for any Television Special releases, that time has well- passed and would have been amply served by
the 1980 Music, Music, Music Special. (Richard Carpenter's avowed favorite.)
Needless to say, this subject does inspire more questions than is answered.
(Interestingly enough, the 1976 I Need To Be In Love Video,
song and video, which actually 'tells a story' is one of the better Video performances---and,
that is merely my opinion.)

 

[Harry]

(Interestingly enough, the 1976 I Need To Be In Love Video,
song and video, which actually 'tells a story' is one of the better Video performances---and,
that is merely my opinion.)

Agreed. It's probably the best BECAUSE it tells a story. But for Richard, it's probably akin to watching old, embarrassing, home movies.

Harry

 

[Made In America]

Friends?

Harry

You bet Harry! I consider everyone on this board a family member because we have all been emotionally invested in the Carpenters or else we wouldn't be here. Family members sometimes have misunderstandings, disagreements, or even heated exchanges. But in the end, we have something in common that is greater than any underlying issue that may surface. And all of us have suffered dearly with the loss of Karen.

Sometimes I can get a bit vocal about my disappointment regarding something that means a lot to me and I sincerely hope I haven't turned off anyone in the meantime. It pains me to love Richard's talents as I do, but then see him disregard some of his work I consider a glorious accomplishment. Such as the Christmas specials. So I hope everyone understands (and tolerates) my periodic rants.