Grusin arrangements - Crystal Illusions

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seashorepiano said:
...I respect people who advocate for social justice, though I disagree with their common political beliefs... ...I buy Sergio's albums for the music within, not the (trite) political themes...
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~ And ~​

Mike Blakesley said:
...As for the political themes, I have long thought that Sergio picked songs because he liked the songs, not necessarily for their political content... ...Some of the translations we've seen of the Portuguese lyrics on the earlier songs tend to bear this out...
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So what exactly is meant by "Political Mendes"? Did "Viola" on Crystal Illusions bear any Political Significance? Is it the "subject matter" of "Righteous Life" and "For What It's Worth" on Stillness...? Or are we taking Ye-Me-Le's "Easy To Be Hard" a little too seriously...?

Politics aside, I think these albums represent a trilogy in 'The Brasil '66/'77s' entry in the Contemporary Pop Market, after ditching a lot of its "Typical Brasilian" trademarks it had started with...

I somehow was intrigued by the Rural Atmosphere of Stillness that my Sergio Journey began with a 10¢ copy of that just to hear how they did "For What It's Worth" while the 2nd Mendes/Brasil '66/'77 album I bought was Ye-Me-Le because of the intriguing cover shot there--and I was curious about "Wichita Lineman" (which really kicks off the album with a Bang!...) as well as what would be regarded as a "Blues/Pop Song", "Moanin'", and of course their treatment of "Easy To Be Hard" '--from the Tribal Love/Rock Musical, HAIR'...

Pais Tropical seems to continue their "American Pop Vein", though with a bit of a hint of a return to their Brasilian Ennui, (and with a few "outside session help" and a bit of Commerciality for Pop/Rock Radio") going the entire "full throttle" on Primal Roots...

I enjoy the "Later Mendes Stuff" as I do the "Earlier Brasil '66" Entries...



Dave
 
The biggest mystery for me with YE-ME-LE and CRYSTAL ILLUSIONS has to do with the HAECO-CSG processing that A&M applied to one and not the other.

Way back on SP-4160, FOOL ON THE HILL, the HAECO-CSG treatment began, but mysteriously it disappeard for CRYSTAL ILLUSIONS, SP-4197. It then came back for YE-ME-LE at SP-4236 and even reared its ugly head on the GREATEST HITS at SP-4252.

So if you play "Pretty World" from CRYSTAL ILLUSIONS, there's no funny processing - but play the same track from GREATEST HITS and you'll hear the difference.

Harry
 
I'm no fan of HAECO-CSG, but I've always thought CI sounded a little "boxy" compared to the other B66 albums of that era--never could explain why.
 
Maybe it is just the arrangements, but I always thought CI and Y-M-L always had a closed-in sound. I find the sound on FOOL to be a lot brighter, even with that processing. Then after Y-M-L, the sound gets better again on STILLNESS and beyond.

I always attributed it to the "denseness" of the arrangements and/or something in the production, but who knows.
 
seashorepiano said:
Dave said:
and I was curious about "Wichita Lineman" (which really kicks off the album with a Bang!...)
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Yes, but J & K really one-upped Sergio in that regard, didn't they?
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Huhh??!! :confused:

--Oh, Yeah! Yeah...YEAH...!! ...Riiiiiight!! --Er, RIGHT!!! :uhhuh:



Dave
 
JMK said:
I think Grusin's work on FOTH and CI are unmatched in the pop music catalog of that era--they define class and clear orchestral thinking.
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Exactly. I've always thought of FOTH and CI as "sister" albums in the respect that they share distinct sounds and orchestral arrangements; almost as if they could have been released as a double album.

Jon
 
Brasil_Nut said:
Exactly. I've always thought of FOTH and CI as "sister" albums in the respect that they share distinct sounds and orchestral arrangements; almost as if they could have been released as a double album.
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:wave:

Welcome back, Jon!
 
I too am a Dave Grusin fan. His long list of credits for Hollywood and or TV themes reminded me of another wonderful musician, named Juan Garcia Esquivel from Mejico. (R.I.P.)
To me the complete Sergio Mendes & Brasil 66 catalog for A&M is astounding. To me the weakest one is "Pais Tropical" and it's still good. Lani Hall with Sergio Mendes was a very special musical combination. I for one would love to see that dynamic duo record once again.
 
Hi Jon!

FOTH seems to spread out the orchestration in a clearer sound. A crisp sound.
CI sounds more muffled to me.

With the exception of the title track, I think that Crystal Illusions sounds like an older album.
 
I just got the Crystal Illusions CD from Amazon, and I love it. So far it's in the top 2 of my favorite BB6 albums. I am also a big fan of Dave Grusin, and I think his arrangements are brilliant. I agree with a previous post that GRP Records was the A&M Records of the 80's. My favorite tracks from CI are: Crystal Illusions, Pretty World, Viola, Dois Dias, You Stepped Out of a Dream and Salt Sea.
 
JMAR5 said:
I just got the Crystal Illusions CD from Amazon, and I love it. So far it's in the top 2 of my favorite BB6 albums. I am also a big fan of Dave Grusin, and I think his arrangements are brilliant. I agree with a previous post that GRP Records was the A&M Records of the 80's. My favorite tracks from CI are: Crystal Illusions, Pretty World, Viola, Dois Dias, You Stepped Out of a Dream and Salt Sea.
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One factor in your favor is that CRYSTAL ILLUSIONS has finally been released domestically on CD, just within this past year. Many of us have had to enjoy the album from either our LPs or from expensive Japanese imports.

Harry
 
My first "Crystal Illusions" was on a 70s-era A&M cassette. I'd have to dig it out to see if they changed the track order or not.
 
The 8-track was a mess. It did start out with "Dock of the Bay" the way the album did, but "Crystal Illusions" was included twice (the second time with its ending faded off) and I think "Dois Dias" was on there twice too.

One thing though -- the first inclusion of "Crystal Illusions" came right after "Salt Sea," and those two songs sound great together because the ending of "Sea" is the same note as the beginning of "Crystal," excpet the tonality is different....I'm pretty sure "Sea" ends on a "major 7th," where "Crystal" begins on a "minor 7th" of the same note. Or something like that. (Music experts, care to chime in?) Anyway, in my opinion they sound great together so I've put them in that order on a couple of compilations I've made.
 
Mike Blakesley said:
One thing though -- the first inclusion of "Crystal Illusions" came right after "Salt Sea," and those two songs sound great together because the ending of "Sea" is the same note as the beginning of "Crystal," excpet the tonality is different....I'm pretty sure "Sea" ends on a "major 7th," where "Crystal" begins on a "minor 7th" of the same note. Or something like that. (Music experts, care to chime in?)
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I think you're right. :agree:
 
So... Since we are talking about the structure of the song...

At the end of the song, what are the chords that the string section keep playing?

I have the music book, but it doesn't seem to be in the right key... also, it doesn't seem to have the real arrangement, either.


A Tone Deaf Trevor
(but so was Tom Jobim)
 
How can a song be in the "wrong key?" It is what it is.

That said, I'll make 2 observations.

1. If you're talking about a music book being in a different key than the record, that's very common. Usually it's done to make the music easier to play, depending upon the skill level the music book is aimed at.

2. It's not unheard of for a song to be "sped up" or "slowed down" a bit for one effect or another. Carpenters used that technique on the SINGLES 1969-1973 album to make two songs segue together in a compatible key.
 
Obviously I was talking about a different key than the record. I thought the book was aimed at being able to play along with the record.
 
Mike Blakesley said:
How can a song be in the "wrong key?" It is what it is.
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He was referring to the music books being in the wrong key, not matching the recordings.

Funny--when I used to have music books, it used to bug me when the songs were in the wrong key. It would drive me to distraction, to where I wouldn't even want to play them. Fortunately for classical music, it was always the right key. Pop music wasn't always so lucky.

Somewhere downstairs, I have a Bacharach/David music book. I should see which keys the songs are in.
 
He was referring to the music books being in the wrong key, not matching the recordings.
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I get that now....I thought he was using "songbook" referring to their recorded works. My bad! :)
 
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