Classic AOTW Herb Alpert & TJB-WHAT NOW MY LOVE SP-4114

What is your favorite track?

  • What Now My Love

    Votes: 14 30.4%
  • Freckles

    Votes: 2 4.3%
  • Memories Of Madrid

    Votes: 12 26.1%
  • It Was A Very Good Year

    Votes: 3 6.5%
  • So What's New?

    Votes: 4 8.7%
  • Plucky

    Votes: 1 2.2%
  • Magic Trumpet

    Votes: 1 2.2%
  • Cantina Blue

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Brasilia

    Votes: 5 10.9%
  • If I Were A Rich Man

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Five Minutes More

    Votes: 1 2.2%
  • The Shadow Of Your Smile

    Votes: 3 6.5%

  • Total voters
    46

Harry

Charter A&M Corner Member
Thread Starter
Staff member
Moderator
Herb Alpert & The Tijuana Brass
WHAT NOW MY LOVE

A&M SP-4114



Released on CD as A&M CD 3265 and Shout! Factory DK 30849

Tracks:

Side One
1. What Now My Love (Becaud-Sigman) 2:18
2. Freckles (Ervan Coleman) 2:12
3. Memories Of Madrid (Sol Lake) 2:23
4. It Was A Very Good Year (Ervin Drake) 3:37
5. So What's New? (John Pisano) 2:07
6. Plucky (Alpert-Pisano) 2:21

Side Two
1. Magic Trumpet (Bert Kaempfert) 2:18
2. Cantina Blue (Sol Lake) 2:34
3. Brasilia (Julius Wechter) 2:30
4. If I Were A Rich Man (Harnick-Rock) 2:33
5. Five Minutes More (Styne-Cahn) 1:53
6. The Shadow Of Your Smile (Mandel-Webster) 3:28

Produced by Herb Alpert and Jerry Moss
Arranged by Herb Alpert
Engineered by Larry Levine, Gold Star
Album Designed by Peter Whorf Graphics

Billboard peak album chart position: 1, 9 weeks (debuted 5/21/66)
Weeks in Top 40 album chart: 141
RIAA certified Gold (5/9/66)
Album released 1966
 

Harry

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One of the enigmas in the Herb Alpert canon, WHAT NOW MY LOVE has generated a lot of conversation over the years regarding the various sonic versions that have been released.

In the LP era, there was of course the normal stereo and mono variations, but within the stereo category, there were at least two different mixes of the album that found their way to the public.

The "wet" version generally features more echo on Herb's lead trumpet, has the short "Plucky", and has more prominent trombone parts on "Brasilia".

The "dry" version, which is what has been released on CD, has Herb's trumpet largely without reverb, has the longer "Plucky" with the bump'n'grind middle, and is missing some trombone parts on "Plucky".

It's possible to have a hybrid of the two as well, with one side being wet and the other dry. I know, I have one.

Those of us who "grew up" with the TJB have memories with these albums indelibly imprinted on our minds, and hearing the "other" version just sounds wrong to us. So in this discussion, let us know which version you heard first and consider "normal".

Theories on how the two came to be have to do with regional pressing and distribution, and differences between Herb and Larry Levine's mixes. We tend to think that the "wet" mix is Larry Levine's since the mono mix tends to be "wet" and we've heard that Larry did the mono mixes while Herb did the stereo.

Steve S. once told us that he brought the subject up to Herb who basically had no idea about what Steve was telling him. Steve was going to send Herb a copy of the "wet" version, but we've not heard any results.

Harry
 

mikeargo

Member
I had to go with "Memories of Madrid" as my favorite--and one of my all-time favorite TJB tunes. Like Going Places, WNML is another strong outing for the Brass, with a whole lotta great arrangements and originals. "What Now My Love," "So What's New," "Plucky," "Cantina Blue," "Brasilia," and Herb's gorgeous arrangement of one of the great romantic ballads, "The Shadow of Your Smile."

I grew up with the "wet" version (both sides) and had no idea there were variant mixes floating around until I learned about it on this here corner a few years ago. I think I'd prefer the "wet" mix to any others even if it weren't the one imprinted on my brain over 40 years ago.

Great album!

Mike A.
 

Mike Blakesley

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Moderator
Steve S. once told us that he brought the subject up to Herb who basically had no idea about what Steve was telling him. Steve was going to send Herb a copy of the "wet" version, but we've not heard any results.
Tony Currie brought this same thing up to Herb in his interview with him, and Herb had no idea again what he was talking about. My conclusion to this mystery is that the "dry" version is maybe an "unfinished" version. If you think about it, the "dry" version is really "dry" because of missing elements (the trombone parts, the echo, etc.) and elements that were later cut-out (the bump'n'grind part of "Plucky").

I think the Shout!Factory (and previous) CD issues must have been put out without Herb having heard them -- OR ELSE the real final version (the "wet" version) has been lost to the ages and the current "dry" version is the best we can get.

As for a favorite song here, that's a real tough one. This is a very "even" album; it's excellent all the way thru with almost no low points. My least favorite song is probably "Magic Trumpet." I don't know why, but I just don't like it much. The slower songs have grown on me a lot over the years. My favorites tend to shift over time...at one time, "Brasilia" was easily my favorite tune on the record but the boneless version drops it off of the top of my list. I think my current favorite would be "Freckles" with the title tune and "Memories of Madrid" following in close succession.
 

DAN BOLTON

Well-Known Member
This seems to be a transition album to me; it's as if Herb is beginning to move away from the mariachi-flavored tunes like TIJUANA TAXI and SPANISH FLEA to a more laid-back, jazzy "ameriachi" style that reached it's zenith with the SRO and SOUNDS LIKE...albums. It definitely is a strong album, no real clunkers here...but it isn't quite as cheerful overall as GOING PLACES or WHIPPED CREAM were. As a result, I don't listen to this album as often as I do some of the others.

I definitely prefer the "wet" version, and it was hard to pick a real favorite tune. I finally went with WNML, but only the wet version...this performance has to be a landmark moment in TJB history. To me, it's the quintessential TJB sound song, the lilting melody, the driving beat, the mandolin solos...it's mariachi, yet it isn't. Herb's take on the song is brilliant...not sentimental at all; it might seem incongruous at first, a musical non-sequiter of major proportions, but it really works!

There are several other gems here, as well...sorry, Mike, but I love MAGIC TRUMPET; I don't quite know if it's a march or a polka, but I really don't care, it's a vivid tone poem that overshadows the original. BRASILIA is one of my faves, too...but I miss the bone on the Shout! Factory CD...the wet mono mix is excellent[my grandmother used to dance to this one...]. The strip-tease vamp really transforms PLUCKY...it was always a throwaway for me before I heard this version. And I love the bass trombone pedal tones on IF I WERE A RICH MAN, but they seem a little buried on the CD. SO WHAT'S NEW is probably John Pisano's signature song.

I always though this album might have been aimed at a slightly older audience than the two previous releases were; and it was probably a wise decision to follow that course of action...younger buyers usually follow the trendy stuff, and the TJB was a firmly established act by the time this set was released.


Dan
 

Mr Bill

Gentlemanly Curmudgeon
Staff member
Moderator
I grew up with the "wet" version. I remember when I finally picked up the CD in 1988, and listened on my new "Discman" while laying in bed. I was nodding off and recall sitting bolt upright when the "bump-n-grind" in "Plucky" came along. I then listened closely to the rest and the next thing that hit me was that "Brasilia" didn't sound quite right. A quick comparison to the vinyl revealed that indeed, Edmondson's trombone parts were missing.

I haven't picked a fave yet. I like "Plucky." And "Brasilia" is one of Julius's better tunes. I know others dislike "Magic Trumpet" but Wechter's xylophone work is extraordinary on that cut, so given my tendency to vote for the underdog, I may go with "Magic Trumpet" when I finally vote.

Looking forward to Steve's session personnel post on this one. We've been spoiled with this added tidbit in the "Classic" threads...

--Mr Bill
 

toeknee4bz

Well-Known Member
Preferably, I'm with the "wet" crowd as far as this album is concerned (Wait a minute. Something just doesn't sound good... oh, well, we won't go there)... :D

The only thing I liked about the "dry" copy was the bump-n-grind burlesque version of "Plucky". I guess I'm just a snob about certain things, one of them being that I prefer to hear the whole song, in it's entirety. Aside from that, however, "What Now" definitely sounds better with the haunting echoes we've grown accustomed to hearing over the years. And "Brasilia" definitely sounds much better with Edmonson's rollicking TJB-spiced trombone fills.

Tony
 

Captain Bacardi

Well-Known Member
Moderator
This was the very first TJB album in our house. My dad bought it for my mom for Valentine's Day in 1968. I used to play this on our hi-fi over and over. I drove my sister crazy with this. :twisted:

As far as favorite tunes, I barely chose "Memories Of Madrid" over "Brasilia" (with trombone, thank you), "Cantina Blue" and "Freckles" (an underrated song, IMHO). But these are all pretty solid songs.



Capt. Bacardi
 

Mike Blakesley

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Moderator
"Freckles" was a late discovery for me. I always heard it, of course, but just in the last couple of years it has jumped out. I was putting together a compilation of "original" TJB songs (written by people like Sol Lake, John Pisano, Bud Coleman etc. and was looking for a good opening song that hadn't already been used to open one of the albums. I decided to use "Freckles." It's just a great opener; it has all the great TJB elements, not to mention a very cool Wechter marimba solo.

"Cantina Blue"...another great one. It's probably in there with my favorite TJB ballads.

This was the 2nd TJB album I heard, and the first one I bought for myself. I can still remember saving up the $4.79 it cost, and racing downtown to buy it. (My first TJB purchase was GOING PLACES which I gave my mom for Mother's day...but I think I played it about a thousand times more than she did...)
 

Captaindave

Well-Known Member
I acquired this album back about 1967, so whatever sonic versions of the recordings were on the original album is my frame of reference.

I like most of the album's content, but I like voted for So What's New as the favorite, and Memories Of Madrid would be the runner up.

So What's New is a nice, laid back tune, and I like the trumpet melody.
 

Steve Sidoruk

Founder, A&M Fan Net
Staff member
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Picture sleeve for SP 414 Stereo Jukebox Little LP - note that the artwork has both the
stereo indicator and number at the top and the monaural number at the bottom right.


Stereo Jukebox Little LP - note that the label says "Herb Alpert's Tijuana Brass", rather than
the cover's "Herb Alpert & the Tijuana Brass."


A&M 792 picture sleeve What Now My Love b/w Spanish Flea


A&M 8508 Forget Me Nots 45 re-issue What Now My Love b/w Spanish Flea


Rowe AMI promo record has Herb's voice over What Now My Love on red wax.

Recording Session Info:

01/11/66 - Gold Star Recording Studios - It Was A Very Good Year, I'll Remember You - Herb Alpert - trumpet, Nick Ceroli - drums, Bob Edmondson - trombone, Tonni Kalash - trumpet, Lou Pagani - piano, John Pisano - guitar, Pat Senatore - bass, Julius Wechter - marimba, Bud Coleman - guitar & mandolin, Lew McCreary - trombone, Chuck Berghofer - bass, Jerry Williams - drums & percussion.

01/14/66 - Gold Star Recording Studios - Red, Plucky Part I - Herb Alpert - trumpet, Nick Ceroli - drums, Bob Edmondson - trombone, Tonni Kalash - trumpet, Lou Pagani - piano, John Pisano - guitar, Pat Senatore - bass, Julius Wechter - marimba, Bud Coleman - guitar & mandolin, Lew McCreary - trombone, Chuck Berghofer - bass, Jerry Williams - drums & percussion, Howard Perry - ?.

2/7/66 - Gold Star Recording Studios - Sol's Tune #1, Shadow of Your Smile, Sol's Tune #2, If I Were A Rich Man - Herb Alpert - trumpet, Nick Ceroli - drums, Bob Edmondson - trombone, Tonni Kalash - trumpet, Lou Pagani - piano, John Pisano - guitar, Pat Senatore - bass, Julius Wechter - marimba, Bud Coleman - guitar & mandolin, Samuel Goldstein - drums, Clifford Hills - bass.

2/10/66 - Gold Star Recording Studios - So What's New? - Herb Alpert - trumpet, Carl Fortino - accordion.

3/1/66 Gold Star Recording Studios - Shadow Of Your Smile, It Was A Very Good Year, Sol's Tune #1 - Herb Alpert - trumpet, Emil Briano - violin, Peter DeVoogdt - ?, Leonard Malarsky - violin, Lew McCreary - trombone, Gareth Nuttycombe - viola, George Poole - flute & violin, Ernie Tack - trombone, Darrel Terwilliger - violin & viola, Irving Weinper - trombone, Walter Wiemeyer - violin.

5/19/66 - Gold Star Recording Studios - Brasilia, Plucky, Freckles, It Was A Very Good Year, Memories Of Madrid, Five Minutes More, Magic Trumpet - no musicians listed.
 

Captaindave

Well-Known Member
Maybe I've missed something recently, but am I now to understand that the live-in-concert TJB - as pictured on the album covers starting with Going Places and thereafter - and the studio TJB as pretty much one and the same group of people?
 

Mike Blakesley

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Moderator
The band members started playing on the records regularly with the GOING PLACES album but were accompanied by various selected studio musicians, as you can tell by Steve's post above. Any given TJB track might contain all, some, or none, of the actual band members.
 

Moritat

Active Member
I gave my vote to MEMORIES OF MADRID. Runners up were Cantina Blue, Freckles and Five Minutes More. I always thought this was a good lp, but certainly not one of their top 3 or 4.
 

sfrederick

New Member
I purchased WNML in 1970. After my first listen I thought something was "wrong" with this album but I couldn't put my finger on it. Being 14 I'm sure I though about it for a few minutes then forgot all about it. Fast foward to a few days ago when I was listening to WNML again. I suddenly realized what was "wrong" with this album.

There was a progression in the Tijuana Brass sound from SOTB thru GP. What I thought was "wrong" was that WNML sounded out of place. It sounded to me like it should have come after SOTB not GP. Half the songs in fact. Here's the list:

Memories of Madrid
It was a Very Good Year
Cantina Blue
Brasilia
If I Were a Rich Man
The Shadow of Your Smile

Also, a co-worker heard "Freckles" and said that she really liked the strip-tease ending.
 

Robert P

New Member
An outstanding and unique record for me. I've discovered my love of music with this one. I've also discovered that I was fascinated with girls too, thumbs up for the picture on the cover!
While I've gave my vote to So What's New, every tune is a true classic recording.
Robert
 

Harry

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Thread Starter
Staff member
Moderator
Well, this thread bump has me realizing that I never voted for a favorite track, and that's understandable - I love the whole album and might at times have a hard time choosing a favorite.

But lately I find myself drawn to the album for one specific track, one that I'll wait for during its playing, and that's "Brasilia". I think the missing trombone part has somehow drawn me in, and I've become more atuned to the wonders of this track.

I'm glad I have mutliple copies of the album on LP, so finding a "proper" wet version isn't so much of a challenge, still I wish that this more "finished" version had been properly mastered in the CD age.

As an album, this one ranks up there for me as the favorite of favorites, and having two different mixes helps keep it sounding fresh after all these years.

Harry
 

mexicat

Member
I've got a US stereo pressing and a UK mono pressing, but I can't say I've ever checked 'em out in a A/B test. Might have to do that tonight though...

I voted "Brasilia", my fave along with "Five Minutes More"...
 

lj

Active Member
For me the best musical moments and the sound that typified the TJB best were songs written by the incredible Sol Lake. Two of his best are on this album such as "Memories of Madrid" (it's like a musical journey) and "Cantina Blue" (no instrumentalist does better on slow ballads than Alpert.) But my favorite song on the album is "What Now My Love" written by the late great Frenchman Gilbert Becaud. His other compositions such as "Let It Be Me," "It Must Be Him," and "Love on the Rocks" were big hits for the Everly Brothers, Vikki Carr and Neil Diamond respectively.

Alpert's brilliance as an arranger was heard in the frequent use of the haunting Italian mandolin prominently featured on this super album. This instrument helped create a unique sound for the Brass.

Talk about things Italian, picture yourself in Taormina Sicily as I was lucky enough to visit twice in my life. From atop its ancient Greek amphitheater looking down at its well preserved site you will see to one side the Mediterranean Sea, in another direction is the town's beautiful architecture and hillsides and in the distance you will see the Mount Etna volcano. I can hear the mandolin music now. The view and feeling is priceless. Travel overseas to places like Italy and Rio de Janeiro if you can. Life doesn't get any better than that.
 

Harry

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Old thread, bumped.

I still find myself drawn to this album more than any other in the TjB canon, and it's my LP of the wet version that continues to fascinate. It's the one I first heard all those years ago and played endlessly so that it's burned into my brain. No matter how I try to love the CD versions, it always feels as though something's missing.

And whenever I play the CD version, I'm reminded of my trip to work on the day that I first bought a bunch of TjB CDs. A&M had just released the first six and BEAT OF THE BRASS back around 1988, and on my way to work I was listening to them for the first time in the car. The disc of WHAT NOW MY LOVE came on and I was noticing a few sonic differences - and then "Plucky" came on. When it got to the middle part, I almost drove off the road. I even remember which road. I was halfway down Ivy Hill Road halfway between Cheltenham Avenue and Stenton Avenue in Philly. It was one of those frozen moments in time.
 

beatcomber

New Member
So, when I'm in a Goodwill and come across this LP, is there an easy way to visually tell if it's the wet or dry version?
 

Bobberman

Well-Known Member
So, when I'm in a Goodwill and come across this LP, is there an easy way to visually tell if it's the wet or dry version?
Not really except when you open the record jacket and the A&M label will more often than not will be the giveaway if it's an early ocher color pressing it will more often be the wet mix if it's the later silver tan A&M label and subsequent Vinyl and CD pressings from the mid 70s to the present it will be the dry mix as it was mentioned previously here this album was pressed at several different pressing plants a similar situation Happened with the earlier South of the Border Album as well
 

Bobberman

Well-Known Member
I voted for Memories of Madrid but I Love Every track as this was one of the First 2 TJB albums I ever heard ( thanks to my parents record library which also had "WHIPPED CREAM AND OTHER DELIGHTS") and the Wet version was the one we had I kept my stereo and mono "Wet" Vinyl versions of this since my CD and Digital versions are the Dry mix i was quite surprised hearing the Dry version which explained why the 70s Best of Compilations that featured tracks from "What now my love" sounded very different from the originals
 
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