If I had produced Made in America

[WYBIMLA]

This is a fun thought exercise since it was mentioned in another thread.
I’ll need some help to compare to other songs from 1980-81 (within the genre of adult contemporary). I didn’t have the time to look much at competing songs from then.

Make your own list that you think encapsulates songs from that period and/or what you would do differently.

To start, let’s take into account what was working for them and acknowledge how they wanted to go at a slower pace. Once the marriage overshadowed the project assume the event would have to take up a track on there because it had meaning to Karen.

I would opt for use of minimal synthesizers, vocals done by them mostly and likely at some point say something to the effect that “production is taking too long and by adding more instruments we’re drowning out the vocals.” Which is counterintuitive considering the brand. Number one would be about keeping the lead front and center, knowing we’re likely going to do an oldie, wedding song, Bacharach tune and likely use a selection from years prior.

So, let’s determine what the songs from 1978-79 are and make sure sweetening, additional instrumentation or mastering is being finished on one of those.

I believe you
Ordinary fool
Look to your dreams
Honolulu City Lights
Where do I go from here
You’re the one
Slow dance
Make believe it’s your first time

I’m basing this on the fact that these were released in the 1980s later (excluding songs like "little girl blue," "from this moment on" made for Television shows). It would be a no brainer to choose “I believe you” since it was already out and updated. However, we would look at songs that Karen selected such as “Make believe it’s your first time” and “Look to your dreams.”

Once we’ve gotten out of the sink hole of past selections let’s look at original song titles:

Those good old dreams
At the end of a song
Because we are in love

I would want more titles here! But, that’s what we’re looking at.

As for adult contemporary covers and oldies we would review publisher submissions and records KC and RC felt suitable:

Strength of a woman
Want you Back in my life again
When you’ve got what it takes
Somebody’s been lyin
Touch me when we’re dancing
When it’s gone (it’s just gone)
Two Lives
Prime Time Love
Uninvited Guest
Kiss me the way you did last night
You’re Baby doesn’t love you anymore
Rainbow Connection
Beechwood 4-5789

There was a lot there to play with! We could mix-match with some other jazz standards:
“Sentimental Journey,” “I love you for sentimental reasons,” “The very thought of you,"
"The moon is a harsh mistress" Or some other Broadway selections or pop songs of the time.

Going into it this album, it already has a shape of its own. They aren’t travelling anywhere like New York, Nashville or New Orleans… so, they're in their comfort-zone and some limits as to what sounds are available and fits after “passage” and “hush.” Plus they have their band, so bulk of these should be able to be played live too.

As we’d move into the visual components of the project I would say we should see about making an animated promotional video--at least for one of them.

My list/new playlist would be as follows:

1) Those good old dreams (it’s a great original can’t not have this one)
2) Touch me when we’re dancing (it’s great, I’d tweak it to be more concentrated on the lead)
3) Your baby doesn’t love you anymore (replacement for Beechwood)
4) Want you Back in my life again (this would have a promo video, the “fun Karen” track, no doubled lead/amplify it)
5) When you’ve got what it takes (for it’s wistfulness and very KC and RC vocal arrangement)

6) Because we are in love (The Wedding song)
7) At the end of a song (kind of has a Honolulu feel, but make those chorus KC and RC vocals)
8) Somebody’s been lyin' (cause you can’t say no Bacharach)
9) When it’s gone (it's good because KC had a hand in percussion)
10) Look to your dreams (I kinda like this to book end it)

 

[CraigGA]

1- I Believe You
2- Touch Me When We're Dancing
3- Ordinary Fool
4- Want You Back In My Life Again
5- Honolulu City Lights
6- Where Do I Go From Here
7- You’re The One
8- Slow Dance
9- At The End Of A Song
10-Kiss Me The Way You Did Last Night
11- Somebody's Been Lying
12- Two Lives

The above would have been my choice. But, if I had the chance, I would throw in Still Crazy After All These Years and Guess I've Just Lost My Head from the solo album in place of Slow Dance and Want You Back in My Life Again.

Craig

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

The first thing I’d do is get the good stuff. They had it. Heres’s my list

1. Ordinary Fool
2. Kiss Me the Way You Did Last Night
3. Where Do I Go From Here
4. You’re the One
5. I Believe You
6. Prime Time Love
7. Your Baby Doesn’t Love You Anymore
8. Sailing on the Tide
9. The Uninvited Guest
10. Little Girl Blue

This is album entirely replaced. The tunes that made the album, in my opinion, were outtakes that we should only have heard later - other than maybe “Touch Me When We’re Dancing”. Even then, it doesn’t hang on with me enough to make it to the album.

I would also have come up with something other than the Chorale. It sends the sound of the tracks they’re on straight to the elevator. I’d also get rid of the string section on most of these. It really only works on “Ordinary Fool” and “I Believe You”. Otherwise, it’s just not needed. Not everything needs orchestration and it felt like Richard put one on every tune just to assert himself. Sometimes, a rhythm section really is enough.

This album needed to be amazing as it was a comeback and it just wasn’t. In my opinion, it’s their very worst. They had a very good album there but they just didn’t know it.

Ed

 

[Toolman]

I'd probably have completed "I Don't Need You" (which I can definitely "hear" with Karen's vocal) and "The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress". Depending on the outcome, I'd have used them to replace one or two on Ed's lineup, but otherwise his listing looks like a winner to me.

 

[Harry]

I'm happy that we have the albums that we do. Some are better, some are worse, but all are treasures.

With today's technology, you can make playlists all day long in any order you'd like to hear the songs.

Live dangerously. Hit "shuffle".

 

[WYBIMLA]

With today's technology, you can make playlists all day long in any order you'd like to hear the songs.

I agree and was somewhat hesitant to make this post for that reason.
I know these discussions of what could have be done better post-74 are overdone.

I keep finding that once The Carpenters were established there was only so much/specific kind of material they could do and try to keep updated. I don't think there was really that much they could have done better as it pertains to song choice. Richard was gifted in selecting music after all. However, there is a difference between Singles 69-73 Vs. Singles 74-78. I believe him when he said "it's hard to come up with these things [LPs]."

Many singers and bands do the same material over and over during their career, and I can see why Karen might get tired of that. Not that she didn't want to sing, but wanted more control. And didn't find that in her solo efforts either, unfortunately. I feel for her on that part of the story. To add, singers can't sing every genre as presented by Idol or Voice contest shows; so it wouldn't be surprising that Karen was confronting the issue of feeling boxed-in by the early 80s.

I came to the same conclusion from the other thread after writing this. Basically the common knowledge among fans that Karen wanted more freedom. Again she would have found more ways to express herself in film.

But, as you say we are left with numerous treasures and I'm crazy for them. At the end of the day in whatever order, eq, stereo/mono mix I'm so glad to have them!!

 

[Another Son]

I've just gone for any of my favourites within the general period, give or take a few years.

My album is very easy-listening with not much uptempo. Oh, and mine has bonus tracks, (or maybe a 'gift single' insert).

I agree with the idea of axing the synth. Synths date the tracks.

The centrepiece is Karen's voice, especially her lower register, with Karen and Richard's harmonies a major feature. I trust Richard to arrange and produce, but don't think of touching that thumping synthesised bass sound that you got into later on, Dickie.

Those Good Old Dreams, (very fond of this)
Honolulu City Lights, (sublime! Karen makes the story come to life as she sings into the sunset)
At the End of a Song, (great vocal - hoping that the song won't end)
I Believe You, (love those harmonies. The song takes me back to a time and place)
Somebody's Been Lying, (a melding of wonderful vocal styles. I like the story, too)
Because We Are in Love, (love the low notes and the high notes - the vocal range)
Slow Dance, (what a great sound sugar is)
Where Do I Go From Here, (Karen is living those lyrics. This one could break your heart)
Rainbow Connection, (whimsical as the windsong that calls the young sailors)
You're the One, (took my breath away when first heard on 'The Karen Carpenter Story')
When It's Gone, (like the lyrics - the poetry in the pain - and Karen's lower register)
Two Lives, (perfect vocal in the bridge. Some of the rest is a bit over-sung and harsh)
The Uninvited Guest, (something a bit different. The light vocals might sound weak on another song but here, they fit perfectly)

I think that's seven songs a side.... or 6 one side and 7 the other. Not sure.

The bonuses are 'Little Girl Blue' and 'When I Fall In Love', inserted as a single with a 1950s-style label and cover - and blue vinyl.

Sorry, 'Touch Me', 'Want You Back', 'Beechwood', 'Your Baby Doesn't Love You Anymore', 'Sailing on the Tide', 'Prime Time Love', 'Strength of a Woman' and 'Kiss Me the Way you Did Last Night'. You're all on the cutting room floor. Only 'Your Baby' and 'Strength' will be resurrected for Karen to have another go at the vocal. 'Kiss Me the Way you Did Last Night' will be compulsorily piped at all weddings of that year, except at weddings of punks, who might trash the venues at the sound of it. Other than that, it will play through, once, every time anybody steps out under a starry sky, (especially seeing as the production is bigger than the cosmos itself). It's delectable, but too big for the record jacket. And 'Ordinary Fool' is held over for a later project. Might put it in..... Might not.

 

[GaryAlan]

Were I to "produce" this album (whatever that word entails):
(1) Begin with re-designing the Cover Art.
(2) Omit all inclusion of Carpettes or Chorales.
(3) Replace/redo, the drumming parts on most of these songs.
(4) Enhance the harp--it's there, but I never hear it.
(5) Remix the entire album, get Karen's vocals "out-front.
(6) Re-shoot the promotional videos. Regardless of the song,
make the promotional video a high-quality product for "airing."
(7) Utilize some of the better Photo-sessions for press release.

So, that's a beginning--I'm not even to which songs to include.....

 

[Must Hear This Album]

Great thread.

One idea I had, if I were going back in time to take the helm as producer for Made In America: how cool would it have been to record the song, “Don’t Know Much,” (that Linda Rondstadt recorded later in the decade...), which was written in 1980, as a duet with Cliff Richard or Peter Cetera? Cliff Richard had just recorded a hit duet with Olivia Newton-John that year, and Karen could have redeemed the “duet” with Cetera from her solo outing.

 

[newvillefan]

how cool would it have been to record the song, “Don’t Know Much,” (that Linda Rondstadt recorded later in the decade...), which was written in 1980

Beautiful, beautiful song. Nobody could have performed the male vocal better than Aaron Neville. This song was part of my growing up. Here’s a clip of them singing this live on Top Of The Pops when very few acts ever sang live.

 

[tomswift2002]

Your MIA

 

[GaryAlan]

I suppose, if I think about Made In America,
two things spring to mind--production and promotion (hardly any in USA):
This 1981 "plug" on Good Morning America and the later Merv Griffin Show.
Here, Karen says: "there's a way to still be together and still work separately..." (3m48s).

 

[newvillefan]

This 1981 "plug" on Good Morning America and the later Merv Griffin Show. Here, Karen says: "there's a way to still be together and still work separately..."

I don’t know what was going on between the two of them at this time but there's clear tension between them during this interview. Richard is absolutely against any idea of either of them doing anything outside of the duo and the atmosphere is really awkward.

Karen’s parting shot “you could score my film” is clearly a dig at his pig-headedness. His reply “Oh sure...when you get one. I’ll get back to you” just comes across as insensitive and condescending.

 

[Another Son]

Karen’s parting shot “you could score my film” is clearly a dig at his pig-headedness. His reply “Oh sure...when you get one. I’ll get back to you” just comes across as insensitive and condescending.

With all respect, I disagree, Newvillefan. I think it's just friendly banter. I don't think Karen's taking a shot. I think she's, once again, demonstrating her faith in and respect for Richard's musicianship and arranging ability. I didn't think Richard's response was insensitive, either. I'll have to watch the clip again sometime and see if I pick up what you mention.

 

[Carpe diem]

I suppose, if I think about Made In America,
two things spring to mind--production and promotion (hardly any in USA):
This 1981 "plug" on Good Morning America and the later Merv Griffin Show.
Here, Karen says: "there's a way to still be together and still work separately..." (3m48s).

This is certainly not an easy thing to watch. Karen looks absolutely awful in this clip. It suggests the extent of her delusional thinking that she could possibly star in a film in her condition. Big brother gives 3 very pronounced glances at Karen while he is talking at 3:31, 3:34, 3:36. It's as if he is thinking "please don't mention your solo album!" The closing remarks are infantile but they are definitely "digs". There is still some bitterness and resentment present. On Richard's part for being upstaged by Karen his whole career and Karen for the torpedoing of her solo work.

 

[newvillefan]

Big brother gives 3 very pronounced glances at Karen while he is talking at 3:31, 3:34, 3:36. It's as if he is thinking "please don't mention your solo album!" The closing remarks are infantile but they are definitely "digs".

Bingo. Glad someone else picked up on it.

 

[A&M Retro]

I agree with Newville and Carpe Diem. There’s most definitely tension between the two of them....especially on the part of Richard. Karen was totally right to challenge his comments after what she’d been through by this time in their careers. While it had to be sheer hell for Richard to have to witness her disease taking over, he was no angel, either.
Karen’s comment back to him was pretty benign, actually. She was too classy to go any further in front of the cameras.

 

[WYBIMLA]

From that interview there is clearly the desire from KC that she wants to do a musical film.
But, after the host asked "are you actively looking for something?"...
Karen gives a slight pause and then her answer becomes non-specific,
"uh, we're looking for something. I'm available." as if speaking to the ether.
After this awkward exchange, she quickly changes the subject to how Richard should score a film.

She was a powerful lady because she could command any conversation. Yeah, there were a handful of things here that weren't right. Including the jokes about being newly married after only knowing Tom for about 3 months.

None of these interviews in 1981 were detailed in Carpenters documentaries in the 2000s. Interesting for us to see all the subtext here, but that's always glossed over in official stories about the events later.
Thank goodness for LGB!

This looks like a brainstorming phase for her. You can see the gears in motion trying to figure out her next solo move.
Over the next few years, following two very strong personal decisions (therapy, preparing for divorce), she was gaining a sense of empowerment. By 1983, she exclaimed to Dionne Warwick how proud she was that her weight was up and telling Phil Ramone "I still love our [expletive] record!"
Coming around to a sense that she had more control over her life than previously thought.
It'd have been amazing to see what would happen next.

I agree with the idea that songs on film soundtracks and incredible award show ceremony performances would have been hers in the 80s. She would receive well deserved acclaim as a solo performer and potentially help spread light on mental health issues too.

 

[tomswift2002]

From that interview there is clearly the desire from KC that she wants to do a musical film.
But, after the host asked "are you actively looking for something?"...
Karen gives a slight pause and then her answer becomes non-specific,
"uh, we're looking for something. I'm available." as if speaking to the ether.
After this awkward exchange, she quickly changes the subject to how Richard should score a film.

She was a powerful lady because she could command any conversation. Yeah, there were a handful of things here that weren't right. Including the jokes about being newly married after only knowing Tom for about 3 months.

None of these interviews in 1981 were detailed in Carpenters documentaries in the 2000s. Interesting for us to see all the subtext here, but that's always glossed over in official stories about the events later.
Thank goodness for LGB!

This looks like a brainstorming phase for her. You can see the gears in motion trying to figure out her next solo move.
Over the next few years, following two very strong personal decisions (therapy, preparing for divorce), she was gaining a sense of empowerment. By 1983, she exclaimed to Dionne Warwick how proud she was that her weight was up and telling Phil Ramone "I still love our [expletive] record!"
Coming around to a sense that she had more control over her life than previously thought.
It'd have been amazing to see what would happen next.

I agree with the idea that songs on film soundtracks and incredible award show ceremony performances would have been hers in the 80s. She would receive well deserved acclaim as a solo performer and potentially help spread light on mental health issues too.

As I’ve mentioned in the past, had Karen lived I could see the producers of Dirty Dancing approaching her to do I’ve Had The Time Of My Life. Jennifer Warnes does a good job, but I think the song was written with Karen in mind and she would’ve knocked it out of the park.

 

[newvillefan]

From that interview there is clearly the desire from KC that she wants to do a musical film.
But, after the host asked "are you actively looking for something?"...
Karen gives a slight pause and then her answer becomes non-specific,
"uh, we're looking for something. I'm available." as if speaking to the ether.

What's also really interesting here is that she used the word "we". Does she mean she and Richard, or she and the record label/management company?

 

[Geographer]

What's also really interesting here is that she used the word "we". Does she mean she and Richard, or she and the record label/management company?

I always took her quote to mean she and her management.

 

[Carpe diem]

Another thought; Joan Lunden has no idea that Karen recorded a solo album over a year after the fact? Was it a closely guarded secret? I would've loved to have Sue Lawley ask Karen about the solo album so much more during the infamous "Nationwide" interview then badger her about her anorexia. Richard would've squirmed completely off the couch if that had happened.

 

[newvillefan]

Another thought; Joan Lunden has no idea that Karen recorded a solo album over a year after the fact? Was it a closely guarded secret?

It wasn’t a secret because there was an article in Billboard about the album’s shelving entitled “Duo takes precedence”. I doubt Joan Lunden was your typical Billboard reader, but in the music industry it will have been known that the album existed.

What has always irked me is the way Richard and others refer to the album as being incomplete and that Karen shelved it in an unfinished state. That is complete nonsense. There never would have been playback sessions in NYC and LA if it wasn’t a finished product. All that happened is they suggested she go back and try recording more material. But to say it was never completed is an outright lie.

 

[Another Son]

It wasn’t a secret because there was an article in Billboard about the album’s shelving entitled “Duo takes precedence”. I doubt Joan Lunden was your typical Billboard reader, but in the music industry it will have been known that the album existed.

What has always irked me is the way Richard and others refer to the album as being incomplete and that Karen shelved it in an unfinished state. That is complete nonsense. There never would have been playback sessions in NYC and LA if it wasn’t a finished product. All that happened is they suggested she go back and try recording more material. But to say it was never completed is an outright lie.

There was also at least one 'teaser' released to the music industry to build up interest and excitement while the album was being recorded. A statement that Karen Carpenter was recording a solo album and that it would include Paul Simon's song, 'Still Crazy After All a These Years' was published, probably in one of the trade papers like Cashbox or Billboard. DJs as far away as Australia knew about it, because it was mentioned on the radio here. I think that was in late 1979....maybe August-ish. (It was before I went away to school, because I scribbled it on my homework table at our home. Otherwise, it was in the holidays, when I came home about three months later. But I think August-ish, 1979). So the pre-release build-up was there.

 

[Carpe diem]

It wasn’t a secret because there was an article in Billboard about the album’s shelving entitled “Duo takes precedence”. I doubt Joan Lunden was your typical Billboard reader, but in the music industry it will have been known that the album existed.

What has always irked me is the way Richard and others refer to the album as being incomplete and that Karen shelved it in an unfinished state. That is complete nonsense. There never would have been playback sessions in NYC and LA if it wasn’t a finished product. All that happened is they suggested she go back and try recording more material. But to say it was never completed is an outright lie.

As much as Sue Lawley is eternally vilified by Carpenters fans as being the ultimate "b**** on wheels" for her treatment of Karen, she was more of a journalist than Joan Lunden and the rest of the "bubble-headed bleach blondes" (to quote Don Henley) in the American news media. Whether Joan read Billboard or not, it's no excuse to be ignorant of the subjects you are interviewing. Lawley did her homework. And, how can everyone be giving Karen and Phil "high fives" at the east coast playback and then you could hear a "pin drop" at the west coast playback? Doesn't make sense. Wasn't the album finished and a release date set?