Questions About the KC Solo Album Songs Played for the A&M Executives

[newvillefan]

And 40 years later, to this fan at least, Karen Carpenter stands up better than many many debut solo albums by the likes of Agnetha, Frida and her other contemporaries. I just wish Karen’s record had been released, even to marginal success, in 1980.

I was trying to decide which part of your excellent post to quote but the last paragraph nails it. The many similarities in circumstance between Karen, Agnetha and Frida are striking as you point out. They all have one primary thing in common though: nobody else knew exactly how to really produce their voices on record to the same astonishing level as their existing producers. They all had a decent try - Phil Collins really pushed Frida stylistically, but became exasperated with her vocal takes in the studio at times. Mike Chapman was nowhere near as strong with Agnetha as he should have been, which just led to an anodyne sounding album with forgettable material. Phil Ramone curiously is a mixture of the two: he definitely pushed her outside her comfort zone, but his biggest failing is that he allowed her to go in totally the wrong direction where the material is concerned, which also resulted in several forgettable tracks making the cut.

We’ve all said that Karen should have recorded an album of standards. Phil Ramone had worked with the likes of Streisand so certainly could have taken her on that journey. Richard certainly had the chops too. But Karen had come out of recording sessions in 1978 having done tracks like “Little Girl Blue” and “When I Fall In Love”, so maybe that was the last thing on her mind.

The thing I’ve always wondered though is this: what kind of album was Richard expecting this to be?

 

[tomswift2002]

Well Karen was also a little rebellious on the album. Richard told her not to do disco and what’s the first track on the releases album? A disco dance track, and then later on what would’ve been Side 2 you’ve got another disco dance track with “Making Love In The Afternoon”.

It would’ve been interesting to have seen either track issued as a 45 in 1980. Sure, people say disco was dead when the clock struck midnight on January 1, 1980, however, in 1980 we still saw some disco hit big on the charts, such as in June 1980 when Lipps, Inc. had “Funky Town” as a summer disco hit at #1 for four weeks.

 

[newvillefan]

Well Karen was also a little rebellious on the album. Richard told her not to do disco and what’s the first track on the releases album? A disco dance track, and then later on what would’ve been Side 2 you’ve got another disco dance track with “Making Love In The Afternoon”.

Think you mean “My Body Keeps Changing My Mind”? But yeah, disco was by no means dead by the beginning of 1980. And let’s all be honest, this wasn’t a disco album!

On a side note, there was a great disco nightclub near my home town in the late 1980s and 1990s called “Roxanne’s”. That Lipps Inc. track ‘Funkytown’ was a regular on their playlist and they had two girls dancing to all the tracks on podiums either side of the DJ stage. The club itself was underground down two flights of stairs and the dancefloor was what I can only describe as a near-equivalent to what you see in the movie ‘Saturday Night Fever’. It was in the centre of the whole room, recessed into the floor and had tiled squares that changed colour. I absolutely loved every night I spent there. We need clubs like that back again!

 

[JohnFB]

I don’t think this is exactly legitimate or fair criticism of Karen. First, her ability to select songs for the duo to record was, according to Richard, better than his on occasion (see “Sweet Sweet Smile”). Second, Richard operated as their main producer and predominant A&R man (a role he took on himself and no doubt dominated - and a role to which Karen very publicly deferred in many interviews) so she wasn’t given the chance of seeking or selecting tracks.

. . .

If Richard thought that she was better at selecting songs - on occasion - than he was then why didn't he encourage her to do that repeatedly through the years? Maybe he did and she just wasn't ambitious enough to spend the time and energy to search them out. But, maybe he wanted to horde that job to himself, which along with his playing/arranging/orchestration roles gave him a status in the group somewhat equal to her's as the upfront singer (getting all the recognition and publicity)...maybe there was a little jealousy involved...who really knows? I would like to believe though that the best singer on the planet knew a good song when she heard one.

What this comes down to - and hindsight here is a great thing of course - is that the disrespect shown to Karen by refusing to support the solo album’s release was sexist, controlling and ultimately proved harmful to an already fragile soul.

I was always under the impression that the decision to not release the Solo Album was mostly financial (with maybe a little bit of personal resentment on Richard's part???) - no one has ever said anything before about sexist or "controlling" factors at play in all of this - charges that would be easy to make but very hard to actually prove. The only control concern here was a money consideration.

 

[Chris May]

The album was shelved because it didn't have any commercial sustainability. If people think for one second that A&M just 'agreed' to go along with personal agendas (Richard's, the family, etc.) and shelve the album, they're sorely mistaken.

A&M had the worst year financially in 1979. A hot album by one of their biggest money makers—Karen Carpenter—would have been exactly what they needed. Anyone who is anyone in this business can listen to the album and tell you that it wasn't a strong record—from a commercial standpoint. That is the number one reason it was shelved—period. That doesn't mean that there weren't interpersonal feelings within the family one way or another about it. But at the end of the day, A&M had every right to release it. They opted not to because no one thought it would sell, and they didn't need that on their books, not to mention they were very concerned it was going to push Karen into a very bad place. Everyone knew she was sick by this point, but she wouldn't listen to anybody. If it was as spectacular as some of the fans claim, someone desperate at that label and/or within their circle of influence would have gladly pushed for its release ... and the multi-millions it would have raked in, especially in 1980!

None of this is to take jabs at Karen, or her undeniable talent. Take the emotional charge and empathy out of it, and you've got what you've got—the business aspect of all of this. Was the album produced well technically speaking? YES! Did Karen sing her ass off? YES! Were the musicians, writers, arrangers and producers top notch? ABSOLUTELY. At the end of the day, none of that matters when you get down to the bottom line. The songs could have been better, and different decisions should have been made in terms of the album's direction in order to keep it authentic, for Karen. This is all "record business 101."

 

[newvillefan]

A&M had the worst year financially in 1979.

Putting aside any views about Karen’s album for a second, I just wanted to focus on this comment. Anyone would be forgiven for thinking A&M was destitute. The label had achieved phenomenal success throughout the 1970s thanks to Richard and Karen, as well as many other artists.

https://www.amcorner.com/labels/a-m-records/146447/history#1979

Summary of 1979:

“Six RIAA gold and two platinum records went to different artists […] Still strong on the charts with 21 singles and 34 albums for the year. Six artists had two albums on the charts”.

Look at the sheer plethora of successful artists that were on the label during the 1970s and before. Nobody can convince me that A&M wasn’t making money hand over fist and couldn’t have afforded Karen that one early solo shot at success. She had certainly given enough to the label. Maybe it was a “difficult” year for the label, but it’s all relative.

 

[Chris May]

Putting aside any views about Karen’s album for a second, I just wanted to focus on this comment. Anyone would be forgiven for thinking A&M was destitute. The label had achieved phenomenal success throughout the 1970s thanks to Richard and Karen, as well as many other artists.

https://www.amcorner.com/labels/a-m-records/146447/history#1979

Summary of 1979:

“Six RIAA gold and two platinum records went to different artists […] Still strong on the charts with 21 singles and 34 albums for the year. Six artists had two albums on the charts”.

Look at the sheer plethora of successful artists that were on the label during the 1970s and before. Nobody can convince me that A&M wasn’t making money hand over fist and couldn’t have afforded Karen that one early solo shot at success. She had certainly given enough to the label. Maybe it was a “difficult” year for the label, but it’s all relative.

With all due respect, the point of that statement is to say that the label cared about one thing—money. That's all any record label ultimately cares about at the end of the day. Herb told me personally '79 was their worst. Regardless of what the public's view of what A&M's acceptable profit margin should have been, it's irrelevant in the scope of actual reality. A&M would have taken the success of Karen's album hand over fist if there was truly something there as far as anyone on the inside was concerned.

 

[Mark-T]

not to mentioned they were very concerned it was going to push Karen into a very bad place. Everyone knew she was sick by this point, but she wouldn't listen to anybody.

I have no doubt Herb in particular loved Karen, even if he was also a businessman. What an awful position to be put in: Not release it and risk hurting her OR release it and take the risk that if it wasn't well received, she'd be damaged as well. IMHO, it's just too bad no album of great quality was released during her lifetime after Christmas Portrait. IMHO, Made in America has its own share of problems and very many weak cuts as well. And it was way less contemporary than anything on her solo album. But I'll happily take both of them and enjoy them for what they are. Especially since February 4, 1983.

 

[Chris May]

I have no doubt Herb in particular loved Karen, even if he was also a businessman. What an awful position to be put in: Not release it and risk hurting her OR release it and take the risk that if it wasn't well received, she'd be damaged as well. IMHO, it's just too bad no album of great quality was released during her lifetime after Christmas Portrait. IMHO, Made in America has its own share of problems and very many weak cuts as well. And it was way less contemporary than anything on her solo album. But I'll happily take both of them and enjoy them for what they are. Especially since February 4, 1983.

I totally agree with you here. That's why I always say, she should have just focused on getting healthy. So many things could have, and likely would have been different for everybody had she done that.

She alone was responsible for herself and her life decisions. None of us can look in the rear view mirror on our own lives, let alone another person's and blame anyone else. It's a hard fact that most people nowadays don't want to accept.

 

[Mike Blakesley]

What this comes down to - and hindsight here is a great thing of course - is that the disrespect shown to Karen by refusing to support the solo album’s release was sexist, controlling and ultimately proved harmful to an already fragile soul.

It never hurts to remember that the record company is always first and foremost a business that's looking to make a profit. Their reason for not supporting that album's release had nothing to do with emotion, sex or control; it was all about the fact that they didn't think they album was very good and thus, it wouldn't have made a profit. (Some here think it's an absolute masterpiece; some have a lower opinion of it... but as a former music dealer, I can tell you it didn't really have very much commercial potential when it was made, because it was too late. Their time had passed. My personal feeling is that if they'd released it at the Carpenters peak, it might have done well. That's just MY two cents.)

Anyway, if the record company thought they had a blockbuster on their hands, they would have put that album out in a heartbeat. They didn't believe that, hence the shelving. It was not an emotional decision but simply a business one. Whether it was the correct decision is something no one will ever know, because as Archie Bunker once said, "That bus has sailed."