What Carpenters' albums/songs are almost perfect to you if it weren't for small details?

[JuanDela]

I know absolutely nothing about music theory or writing, so I don't know every music term and I'm sorry if I'm terribly wrong about this list.
To me personally are the next ones:

Albums:
- Now & Then: Side B is a little short. Would've loved a full version of the oldies.
- Karen Carpenter (Karen's solo album): A little different to the Carpenters original sound, but still great. Song selection is also pretty good, but phil Ramone's arrangements are a little shallow. In Lovelines, for example, you can barely hear Karen's full singing. I prefer the arrangements Richard did to Lovelines in their posthumous album, and to My Body Keeps Changing My Mind in "From The Top".

Songs:
- We've Only Just Begun: I feel like the bridge where Richard sings "And yes, we've just beguuuuuuuuuun" sounds a little empty. Karen's voice would've maybe given it some more depth.
- Please Mr. Postman: The "Aaaaaahhh" backing vocals sound a little shallow when they start. Also, the 1991 remix cuts out a part of the guitar solo at the end.
- I Won't Last A Day Without You (Singles 1969-1981 version): Piano solo at the end is almost perfect, but could've used some more instrumentation in the last note.
- Look To Your Dreams: The Piano solo at the end is sublime, but it's really low. Gotta bring the volume up about 200%.
- Beechwood 4-5789: Bassline is too simple for my taste.

Let me know your list!

 

[tomswift2002]

I know absolutely nothing about music theory or writing, so I don't know every music term and I'm sorry if I'm terribly wrong about this list.
To me personally are the next ones:

Albums:
- Now & Then: Side B is a little short. Would've loved a full version of the oldies.
- Karen Carpenter (Karen's solo album): A little different to the Carpenters original sound, but still great. Song selection is also pretty good, but phil Ramone's arrangements are a little shallow. In Lovelines, for example, you can barely hear Karen's full singing. I prefer the arrangements Richard did to Lovelines in their posthumous album, and to My Body Keeps Changing My Mind in "From The Top".

Songs:
- We've Only Just Begun: I feel like the bridge where Richard sings "And yes, we've just beguuuuuuuuuun" sounds a little empty. Karen's voice would've maybe given it some more depth.
- Please Mr. Postman: The "Aaaaaahhh" backing vocals sound a little shallow when they start. Also, the 1991 remix cuts out a part of the guitar solo at the end.
- I Won't Last A Day Without You (Singles 1969-1981 version): Piano solo at the end is almost perfect, but could've used some more instrumentation in the last note.
- Look To Your Dreams: The Piano solo at the end is sublime, but it's really low. Gotta bring the volume up about 200%.
- Beechwood 4-5789: Bassline is too simple for my taste.

Let me know your list!

With “Now & Then” you have to remember that it may be short by today’s standards, however it was around the average length in 1973, since for good dynamic range on LP, each side could hold about 15 - 3
20 minutes of music. Once you got beyond that, compression needed to be added since the grooves got narrower to allow for more music, not to mention but as the needle got closer to the center, the bitrate got lower, that’s why a lot of LP’s from the 80’s on back had a slow track to end each side and each side was opened by a punchy track, the outside offered more bitrate than the inside. That’s why I prefer the West German CD of “Christmas Portrait” over the vinyl LP’s of the era, since the LP’s had to be compressed dynamically in order to fit the nearly hour of music on the disc and it sounds horrible.

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

I know absolutely nothing about music theory or writing, so I don't know every music term and I'm sorry if I'm terribly wrong about this list.
To me personally are the next ones:

Albums:
- Karen Carpenter (Karen's solo album): A little different to the Carpenters original sound, but still great. Song selection is also pretty good, but phil Ramone's arrangements are a little shallow. In Lovelines, for example, you can barely hear Karen's full singing. I prefer the arrangements Richard did to Lovelines in their posthumous album, and to My Body Keeps Changing My Mind in "From The Top".

That's not a function of bad arranging; it's a function of a bad mix. This is where Richard's remixes were an improvement. The only one he fails on is "My Body" because, like so many Carpenters' remixes, he added way too much reverb to "My Body..."

Songs:
- We've Only Just Begun: I feel like the bridge where Richard sings "And yes, we've just beguuuuuuuuuun" sounds a little empty. Karen's voice would've maybe given it some more depth.

It was supposed to be a different sound. I like the contrast between Richard's voice there myself.

Ed

 

[Jack A.]

Off the top of my head, the only one I can think of right away is Invocation. Overall great harmonizing, but there's this awful clash on the word "peace."

 

[JohnFB]

ROAD ODE - as I stated before recently and in another thread, the arrangement is too truncated and overall doesn't reach it's full potential (doesn't realize it's fullest possibilities) - this is a really good recording that could have been a great one if: they had added another verse and made it the 2nd verse; moved the 2nd verse to the 3rd verse spot; added another reiteration of that dynamic chorus after the 3rd verse; maybe added yet another repeat of that chorus at the end; and extended the flute solo in the middle section to make it twice (or 3 times) as long. This would have had the makings of a No. 1 hit...

I WON'T LAST A DAY WITHOUT YOU - of all the songs that seem diminished and distorted because they choose to "double-track" Karen's lead vocals (and that's every song where that amateurish technique was utilized) this is the worst example and the one that grates the most, because this is a composition in the same class as RAINY DAYS and could have been that excellent of a piece of music. Karen's vocals never needed any technical gimmicks or enhancements!

FOR ALL WE KNOW - instead of the (partial) repeat of the lyrics in the 2nd half of the song a whole new set of lyrics should have been composed looking back over a lifetime together by the couple, to balance out the forward look into the possible future of the existing lyrics, as in "Love looked at the two of us, friends now in many ways. We had a lifetime we shared, so much was said. and as we went from day to day..." A short bridge should have been added between the two sections.

SUPERSTAR - the French Horn segment of the orchestral arrangement should have been instead a guitar part for Tony Peluso - after all, the whole theme of the song is about a Rock guitarist who we should have heard from during the song to emphasize Karen's dramatic and plaintive vocal about his sweet and sad guitar.

 

[Jack A.]

I just thought of another one: on Rainy Days” - at least on the album version, Karen’s vocal is very distorted in certain sections, namely the third verse (“hangin’ around”). I don’t know if the mic was turned way up or what, but it seemed to be fixed for the single release as well as the promotional video.

 

[newvillefan]

That's not a function of bad arranging; it's a function of a bad mix.

Ed is right. A perfect example is the track “Lovelines”. In Phil’s original mix, at the end of the chorus Karen’s lead is barely audible on the line “cuz lovelines never fade”. In Richard’s 1989 remix (yes, I know this came first but it is a remix of the intended original), her voice is rich and clear above all the backing vocals. Proving that it was there in the first place and recorded well, but pushed far too low down in Phil’s mix.

 

[Faithful Fan]

When summer weather comes around each year, I automatically play one of my favorites- Happy. Granted, the synthesizer could be updated as mentioned by Richard. But what a great Summer time poolside song -even today-with some minor changes. That would make me happy!

 

[Harry]

I've split off the pronunciation/lisp debate into another thread so this one can thrive on its topic.

 

[FineArts03]

Love me for what I am is perfect apart from its solo which sounds awful!

A song for you is great, I just don’t like the bridge

Eve is amazing apart from when it gets to around the ‘notice how her image saddens’ part

The opening of I Need To Be In Love sounds like a Disney movie which puts me off a bit but the rest is perfection

 

[Mark-T]

Welcome to the Boards, @FineArts03 !

 

[JohnFB]

A song for you is great, I just don’t like the bridge.

What do you consider the bridge?

 

[FineArts03]

What do you consider the bridge?

'You taught me precious secrets
Of the truth withholding nothing
You came out in front and I was hiding
But now I'm so much better
And if my words don't come together
Listen to the melody cause my love is in there hiding'

I've looked online and this section is considered the bridge meanwhile the short sections:

''Cause we're alone now
And I'm singing this song to you'

Are considered the chorus which is interesting as it's a two line chorus which is rare.

Also the reason I don't like the bridge is because it's nowhere near as strong as the verses which leads to it being a bit disappointing (for me at least). When listening to the bridge it feels as though it's uncertain about where it wishes to go and then it just ends with 'my love is in there hiding' as backing vocals come in. I think the bridge also lacks impact unlike the verses which are dramatic, emotive and engaging. I think I would've not been as bothered if the bridge was only featured once but you hear it twice due to the Carpenters version being so long and It just rubs me the wrong way.
Of course this isn't necessarily the Carpenters fault because it's a cover.

With that said it's one of my favourite songs by the duo as the verses and sax solo more than make up for the bridge

 

[FineArts03]

Yea a guitar solo on Superstar similar Goodbye To Love would've been epic and as you said it would have fitted in with the songs lyrical content.

 

[Chris May]

'You taught me precious secrets
Of the truth withholding nothing
You came out in front and I was hiding
But now I'm so much better
And if my words don't come together
Listen to the melody cause my love is in there hiding'

Best part of the entire song IMHO!

 

[newvillefan]

Also the reason I don't like the bridge is because it's nowhere near as strong as the verses which leads to it being a bit disappointing (for me at least).

That’s my favourite part of the entire song. I first discovered the track when I saw Cynthia Gibb singing it in the TV movie and it was love at first hear. I love the way she ‘pushes’ the word “hiding” the second time around. Just lovely.

 

[JohnFB]

'You taught me precious secrets
Of the truth withholding nothing
You came out in front and I was hiding
But now I'm so much better
And if my words don't come together
Listen to the melody cause my love is in there hiding'

Also the reason I don't like the bridge is because it's nowhere near as strong as the verses which leads to it being a bit disappointing (for me at least).

I have to respectfully disagree - these lyrics are sophisticated, in a down-to-earth sort of way, about how this guy was hiding from the truth, but she's holding nothing back & being right up front about it; and now he's better and trying to tell her how he feels,but is still reserved and is letting his music tell her instead...fairly literate and slightly profound...

. I think the bridge also lacks impact unlike the verses which are dramatic, emotive and engaging.

Again I disagree - instead I think it is even more so than the verses...

 

[JohnFB]

The opening of I Need To Be In Love sounds like a Disney movie which puts me off a bit but the rest is peefect.

LOOK TO YOUR DREAMS is definitely Disneyesque, but not INTBIL, lyrically the most sophisticated piece of music they ever recorded..."sophistcated" is something few associate with Disney...

 

[Jack A.]

"sophistcated" is something few associate with Disney...

Except maybe Karen.

 

[JuanDela]

In Phil’s original mix, at the end of the chorus Karen’s lead is barely audible on the line “cuz lovelines never fade”.

That's right. It also happens when Karen sings "...heaven knows I need you". You can barely hear her say "Heaven knows"

 

[JuanDela]

Love me for what I am is perfect apart from its solo which sounds awful!

I totally agree! I think the solo might have been recorded through a fuzz pedal, which in my opinion sounds pretty bad.

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

I have to respectfully disagree - these lyrics are sophisticated, in a down-to-earth sort of way, about how this guy was hiding from the truth, but she's holding nothing back & being right up front about it; and now he's better and trying to tell her how he feels,but is still reserved and is letting his music tell her instead...fairly literate and slightly profound...

Again I disagree - instead I think it is even more so than the verses...

Amen to all of this. "Listen to the melody / cause my love is in there hiding" is just such a truism for musicians. I grew up with one. They don't do so well expressing themselves traditionally but the best parts of who they are live in their music. Very profound and, frankly, rather sad.

Ed

 

[Jack A.]

One more I just thought of: On “Top Of The World,” the whistles on some of Karen’s “S’s” in the second verse (pleasing sense of happiness) have always bugged me.

 

[JohnFB]

Sorry Jack - don't hear any whistling - just like I don't hear any lisping - so, either my old ears have lost their sensitivity to "S-like" sounds, or I'm just so enamored of Karen's voice and singing style that I refuse to recognize or admit that she has even the slightest speech/singing fault - the other possible explanation for not hearing these things, of course, is that they are simply not there - I haven't discounted this possibility...

 

[Nemily]

One more I just thought of: On “Top Of The World,” the whistles on some of Karen’s “S’s” in the second verse (pleasing sense of happiness) have always bugged me.

Sorry, Jack I just tried, too. I love this song and never get tired of it. I just listened to TOTW with standard lossless and then on a couple of physical formats, and I wasn’t able to pick up any whistles either, so I’m pretty much where JohnFB is coming from, could be me but who knows. I did notice for the first time however that there are a ton of “S’s” in this song that I never paid much attention to before lol.

If the whistles you are hearing really bug you as you say, give this a try. Listen once again, but this time and in the spirit of Vince Lombardi, instead of chasing perfection, try to catch the excellence. It’s all over the place in the best possible way, whistles and all