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Official Review [Single]: 20. "I NEED TO BE IN LOVE"/"SANDY" (1828-S)

Which side is your favorite?

  • Side A: "I Need To Be In Love"

    Votes: 31 77.5%
  • Side B: "Sandy"

    Votes: 9 22.5%

  • Total voters
    40

John Adam

Well-Known Member
This is my second favorite Carpenters single. This song and "Rainy Days" are two of the singles that once she starts to sing just grab your attention........and you can't help but just listen, almost paralyzed by her vocal performances. Karen has said this is her favorite Carpenter/Bettis tune and it shows. She acts and lived every note she sings. This one also under-performed on the charts, an early sign that radio was changing into a new animal. And Richard had the nerve to tell her not to do disco??? But he's probably right. All it would of bought is 10 minutes in the spotlight VS a career. :)

10/10
 

adam

Active Member
I Need To Be In Love. Chart facts.

Australia. 47
Canada.24
Ireland.14
Japan.charted at no 5 in 1995
UK.36
USA.25
 

GaryAlan

Well-Known Member
I do not have a copy of the comp cd 40/40.
The song...I Need To Be In Love....
is detailed on the resource page
as..."2002 alteration"....
on this compilation.

What does that imply ?
 

leadmister

Well-Known Member
I had to choose INTBIL over Sandy. It is a superior composition and Karen and John both had a lot invested in it emotionally. And in the live Bruce Forsyth performance, she was really feeling it, as you see her roll her eyes and emphasize the "crazy world" part of the first verse. I have a small handful of favorite Karen moments during performances and promo videos, and INTBIL holds 3 of those spots: the first being the already mentioned Forsyth performance and the second being in the 1976 London show at the end of the song when she just sadly shrugs, with an ironic smile and slowly turns away from the audience. Chokes me up every time knowing what is behind that. The promo video with them on the airplane is also one of my favorites. She did some powerful emoting as she sat there quietly reading her copy of Billboard, while Richard was acting more goofy about his predicament. But Karen looked absolutely gorgeous in that video.

As far as the single cut goes, to weigh in on some of the comments I have read in this thread, I wouldn't be surprised if the use of the OK Chorale was because of time constraints and/or personal problems. Did they have the time and energy it took at that point to lay down all of the vocal parts that they would slave over for weeks on end, while a touring schedule that was ramping up prohibited them from doing much besides endless shows 6-7 days per week?

I look at a lot of things that went on after 1975 to be a matter of practicality as opposed to anything else. They weren't in the same spot they were during their golden years of '70-'75. You're looking at a combination of tired, frazzled, emotionally and creatively spent, sick, dependent on pills, depressed, mismanaged, and finally in denial about so much. Most people listen to their music from this period and wonder why they ended up with substandard results, but I listen to it and wonder how they were able to do what they did. Call the A Kind Of Hush and Passage period what you will: bland, less powerful, phoned in, whatever. Although these albums weren't up to par with the first 5, they are remarkable efforts considering the shape K&R were in.
 

ThaFunkyFakeTation

Ah am so steel een luv weeth yoo
June 5,1976 CashBox:
CARPENTERS (A&M 1828)
I Need To Be In Love (3:25)
(Almo/Sweet/Harmony/Hammer & Nails/Landers-Roberts — ASCAP)
(R. Carpenter, J. Bettis, A. Hammond)
"A beautiful string introduction here, then Karen Carpenter’s voice slips in with a
sweet ballad melody...


Richard Carpenter
:
"To be frank, I always felt the song, performance, and arrangement were strong and commercial,
and was a bit perplexed when, in the U.S., it peaked only at
#25. "
Carpenters •• I Need To Be In Love
I honestly don’t know why he thought that. It’s not commercial in the least bit to me and suffered from what so many Carpenters songs suffered from: saccharine arrangements. That darned oboe he wouldn’t let go of along with the chorale made what is a very nice tune into a totally uncool one. Karen sounds great on it, of course, but the tune isn’t the least bit commercial to my ears.

Ed
 

John Adam

Well-Known Member
I honestly don’t know why he thought that. It’s not commercial in the least bit to me and suffered from what so many Carpenters songs suffered from: saccharine arrangements. That darned oboe he wouldn’t let go of along with the chorale made what is a very nice tune into a totally uncool one. Karen sounds great on it, of course, but the tune isn’t the least bit commercial to my ears.

Ed
I don't think it's a commercial pop single, but it is absolutely gorgeous recording and vocal. I also like the more basic vocal like on the Bruce Forsythe performance from 1978. That said it is still my second favorite Carpenters single of them all. I think that says something to it's appeal, it's still a cool tune regardless of radio play to me. :)
 

GaryAlan

Well-Known Member
I love harps, I love Gayle Levant.
Listen to what she says here (40m04s): "their legacy...I can't even begin to tell you because
I don't want to start crying...I'm so grateful that I was there at the time that they were there,
together, and that I wasn't just listening to them on the radio, I was part of their sound,
and I am forever grateful."

The Japan documentary about the song, I Need To Be In Love:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlIajNvqobw
 

AM Matt

Well-Known Member
By the way, "Hee Haw" celebrates its 50th Anniversary!! Buck Owens & Roy Clark R.I.P.'s. Matt Clark Sanford, MI
 

GaryAlan

Well-Known Member
I Need to be in Love
Karen Carpenter, Oct 30, 1978:
"In my opinion that's one of the most beautiful things we ever cut and one of the most beautiful things Richard and John have ever written.
That's a really important song, even today. It's my favorite. A really special part of the show."
(Reader's Digest comp Liner Notes).
 

GaryAlan

Well-Known Member
The 1984 I Need To Be In Love, Lorrie Morgan, clip got me to searching,
so, I locate an Interview (2017):
MNA: Who were some of your musical influences when you were growing up? I know your dad was a great performer.
Besides him, any other special people?
Lorrie MORGAN: Oh well, there were people like Tammy Wynette, Jeannie Seely, Connie Smith,
Karen Carpenter (who was just a really huge influence on
me), Diana Ross and the Supremes, Jeannie Shepard, Barbara Mandrell, Dottie West,
there were many influential people over the years."
More:
A chat with country singer Lorrie Morgan - Manistee News

And this:
Q: Who influenced you growing up?
A: "Tammy Wynette was on the top of my list. I was a HUGE Karen Carpenter fan. I loved her voice.
She was a very sensual singer. "
More:
Q&A: Lorrie Morgan | Baltimore Media Blog
 

ericzs

New Member
I was very disappointed with the release of INTBIL. We were in the disco era, the music scene had changed, and while I didn't expect them to follow suit, the choir on this song signaled the beginning of the end for them, commercially, in my humble opinion. What were they thinking? I enjoyed the song, but it wasn't until I heard Karen's "solo" version on The Bruce Forsythe Show, that I truly appreciated it. I have always enjoyed Sandy too.
I wholeheartedly agree with "the choir on this song signaled the beginning of the end for them". Richard's heavy use of the OK Chorale gave every song a decidedly Muzac/MOR/Elevator Music feel to them. I think they lost the POP market because of that, amongst other reasons. It was appropriate for the first X-Mas album, 'Don't Cry for Me Argentina', and 'Calling Occupants', but other than that, it was out of place and ruined the songs for me. That also applies to the beginning and end of The Royal Philharmonic recording for me. Just my 4 cents worth...
 
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ThaFunkyFakeTation

Ah am so steel een luv weeth yoo
I wholeheartedly agree with "the choir on this song signaled the beginning of the end for them". Richard's heavy use of the OK Chorale gave every song a decidedly Muzac/MOR/Elevator Music feel to them. I think they lost the POP market because of that, amongst other reasons. It was appropriate for the first X-Mas album, 'Don't Cry for Me Argentina', and 'Calling Occupants', but other than that, it was out of place and ruined the songs for me. That also applies to the beginning and end of The Royal Philharmonic recording for me. Just my 4 cents worth...
Welcome, Eric!

I couldn't agree more. They were already pretty MUZAK-y by the time of "A Kind of Hush" but they really plunged headlong into MUZAK-land with the use of the OK Chorale. Other than Karen's voice, the best part of them had always been Richard's vocal arrangements and the way they sounded together. Take away those vocal arrangements and their output went straight into the elevator.

Ed
 

CraigGA

Well-Known Member
Although I agree that their album A Kind Of Hush was more Lawrence Welk than alternative pop, their live shows were not. Sometimes I feel that five years of great success exceeded most of artists patterns in the 70’s, and that most felt their best was already in their collection. It seems that although Karen wanted to stay more contemporary Richard felt the pressure to stay signature like. But the signature became as Muzak as their Muzak versions. If Passage had followed Horizon and included Boat To Sail, You, and Ordinary Fool, the public would have had better encouragement to stay dedicated. The other half is that Hush did sell but I feel those who bought it were expecting more from a group that set the bar high! Regardless, I still listen almost daily to the smooth vocals that continue to hypnotize me into listening pleasure of an escape to another time and place.
 

newvillefan

I Know My First Name Is Stephen
The other half is that Hush did sell but I feel those who bought it were expecting more from a group that set the bar high! Regardless, I still listen almost daily to the smooth vocals that continue to hypnotize me into listening pleasure of an escape to another time and place.
The cynical side of me would venture to guess that its success was partly, at least, down to the superb quality and class of what came before it, particularly their last album Horizon. When the record buyers found Hush to be sub-par, they didn't go on to buy Passage and fell away. The other thing to note is that a lot of people seem to believe that the next album, Christmas Portrait, was a huge seller on release. It wasn't. In 1978 it only charted at #145 on Billboard and took until April 1998 for it to be certified platinum (according to RIAA). So in a way, even the Christmas album followed the pattern of the downward sales slide at the time and Made In America just put the nail in the coffin.
 

GaryAlan

Well-Known Member
^^Excellent analysis, Stephen !
I notice that when Horizon peaked on Billboard USA at #13, July 26, 1975 ( 5 weeks on the charts)
the Captain and Tennille were at #3 and rising (7 weeks on chart).
So, that was another obstacle, that competition.
Album Hush peaked at #33 (6 weeks on the charts).

Jan 5, 1974: The Singles 1969-1973 peaked at #1 (49 weeks on chart).

The impossibility of duplicating
The Singles 1969-1973
should not be discounted, either
 

newvillefan

I Know My First Name Is Stephen
I notice that when Horizon peaked on Billboard USA at #13, July 26, 1975 ( 5 weeks on the charts)
the Captain and Tennille were at #3 and rising (7 weeks on chart).
So, that was another obstacle, that competition.
Album Hush peaked at #33 (6 weeks on the charts).
I did not know Horizon only peaked at #13 in the US. This made me go away and compare the chart listings for the original, non secular albums in the US and UK from the breakthrough album, Close To You. An interesting pattern emerges. The first albums were hugely successful in the US, with the UK catching up and mirroring the chart placing for Now & Then in 1973. But then from 1976 onwards, the albums drop out of the top 30 completely in the US and the trend switches places, in some cases with the UK eclipsing the US success. Look at the position of A Kind Of Hush in the UK!

For me this may be indicative of something I've heard many, many artists say about the UK audiences, including Carpenters (specifically Richard), Neil Sedaka, Dusty Springfield and Barry Manilow: where the US record-buying public turned away from their favoured artists of earlier years, the UK record-buying and concert-going audience base always held firm (in some cases right through to the new millennium). We've seen evidence of this with several resurgences in the UK which have not been mirrored in the US: the UK audiences do seem to come back to their old favourites time and time again.

USUK
Close To You223
Carpenters212
A Song For You413
Now & Then22
Horizon131
A Kind Of Hush333
Passage4912
Made In America5212
Voice Of The Heart466
Lovelines73
 
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ThaFunkyFakeTation

Ah am so steel een luv weeth yoo
Very well done !
Listen and watch , if you can, as Lorrie Morgan sings I Need To Be In Love (1984 Hee Haw):
Interesting to hear this. Lorrie was totally into this. Her tone is thinner than Karen's so it doesn't work as well but she was definitely feeling it. Watch her at the end while she's sitting there. She was clearly still in the moment. It's a very deep lyric and you have to give yourself to it in order to it justice. Lorrie did that.

Ed
 

Rumbahbah

Well-Known Member
I did not know Horizon only peaked at #13 in the US. This made me go away and compare the chart listings for the original, non secular albums in the US and UK from the breakthrough album, Close To You. An interesting pattern emerges. The first albums were hugely successful in the US, with the UK catching up and mirroring the chart placing for Now & Then in 1973. But then from 1976 onwards, the albums drop out of the top 30 completely in the US and the trend switches places, in some cases with the UK eclipsing the US success. Look at the position of A Kind Of Hush in the UK!

For me this may be indicative of something I've heard many, many artists say about the UK audiences, including Carpenters (specifically Richard), Neil Sedaka, Dusty Springfield and Barry Manilow: where the US record-buying public turned away from their favoured artists of earlier years, the UK record-buying and concert-going audience base always held firm (in some cases right through to the new millennium). We've seen evidence of this with several resurgences in the UK which have not been mirrored in the US: the UK audiences do seem to come back to their old favourites time and time again.

USUK
Close To You223
Carpenters212
A Song For You413
Now & Then22
Horizon131
A Kind Of Hush333
Passage4912
Made In America5212
Voice Of The Heart466
Lovelines73
The peak positions only tell part of the story in the UK though. The first few albums, while not making the Top 10, were actually on the charts for a long time (Close to You spent 76 weeks on the chart, actually peaking at #23 in 1973). The albums after Horizon, whilst generally charting fairly highly, didn't hang around on the charts for long (only Voice of the Heart had a fairly decent run). A Kind of Hush, whilst peaking at #3, spent just 15 weeks on the survey.

The UK audience did stay more faithful than the US audience for sure (and particularly so into the 1990s and beyond), but in the late 1970s, they weren't really major players on the charts here either, and on the singles chart, only 'Calling Occupants' made the Top 10 (in fact it was their only Top 20 after 1975).
 

John Adam

Well-Known Member
Japanese documentary, has English subtitles (you might have to turn on) for the Japanese language parts. For those of us who haven't seen this, like me.

 

GaryAlan

Well-Known Member
As I listened to Lorrie Morgan (above),
I do believe an even more countrified arrangement (e.g. steel guitars....)
would work quite well with the song (of course, sans choir).
In any event, the song I Need To Be In Love
is full of untapped riches (arrangement-wise).
 

Jarred

Well-Known Member
I did not know Horizon only peaked at #13 in the US. This made me go away and compare the chart listings for the original, non secular albums in the US and UK from the breakthrough album, Close To You. An interesting pattern emerges. The first albums were hugely successful in the US, with the UK catching up and mirroring the chart placing for Now & Then in 1973. But then from 1976 onwards, the albums drop out of the top 30 completely in the US and the trend switches places, in some cases with the UK eclipsing the US success. Look at the position of A Kind Of Hush in the UK!

For me this may be indicative of something I've heard many, many artists say about the UK audiences, including Carpenters (specifically Richard), Neil Sedaka, Dusty Springfield and Barry Manilow: where the US record-buying public turned away from their favoured artists of earlier years, the UK record-buying and concert-going audience base always held firm (in some cases right through to the new millennium). We've seen evidence of this with several resurgences in the UK which have not been mirrored in the US: the UK audiences do seem to come back to their old favourites time and time again.

USUK
Close To You223
Carpenters212
A Song For You413
Now & Then22
Horizon131
A Kind Of Hush333
Passage4912
Made In America5212
Voice Of The Heart466
Lovelines73
Jesus, talk about loyal! The shift seen in numbers is fascinating and interesting that both align with Now and Then, a peak album for them and the last album with the classic sound, but you wonder why the first albums didn’t stick as high with the UK. Because they were overseas starting out?
 

newvillefan

I Know My First Name Is Stephen
you wonder why the first albums didn’t stick as high with the UK. Because they were overseas starting out?
That may be because they didn’t really ever tour in the UK a lot in the early 70s. They did the Royal Albert Hall on September 24,1971 and there were a couple of promotional appearances on BBC television, but that’s it. Instead their management had them schlepping around the whole of North America night after night.
 

Donn

Member
I always thought the use of a choir on this song was to suggest that romantic fulfillment was akin to a religious fulfillment
 
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